Zerg Really Easy to Kill?

Siretu

Starcraft 2 Editor Moderator
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The problem is, how can you tell if someone is a "top player"? I am under the impression that Blizz is using the ladder to determine if a player is good. But the problem is, a lot of players in leagues rely on cheese and all-in tactics to climb the ladder. I heard that bling bust and 4 warpgate rush work all the way to platinum / diamond level. It's very difficult to balance based on that (although they can make cheese and all-ins riskier and harder to pull off by looking at those players)

We're talking top 20 and stuff, those people didn't get there from cheesing every game. On a almost related note, there are some people using disconnect hack that got like 50 wins and no losses.
 

BANANAMAN

Resident Star Battle Expert.
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Can a fellow zerg player please assist me with some navigation ?

I am not compleatly sure when I should get gas, also any tips on how to have better queen control (the larva summoning spell) are more then wellcomed and how many muthas is enough for an attack ?

Getting gas would depend on what you're planning to do early in the game.If your planning to expand and put pressure with ling skirmishes into the enemy base you would save up for that 2nd hatchery after your pool is finished to expand and make zerglings delaying getting gas until you've decided to get units such as Banelings and or upgrade to lair tech.Or if your going for a pretty stable economy without pressure but still retaining good defense you'd get one geyser then when you decide to get something gas heavy like Hyrdalisks you'd do well to get the second geyser up and running as well as the fourth and fifth in the natural/expansion.

Since Starcraft II is relatively new so far there aren't really any solid openings so far so try and experiment on your gas timing.See which is the optimum time to place it for various strategies.

As for mutalisks you should always remember that before you do anything with mutalisks outside your bases you should always have at least 9 in one group.mutalisks are not worth the investment if you have anything less than 9 mutalisks.Beyond that just remember to try and have 2 mutas for each unit that counters them be it hard or soft. :)

@Viikuna:How can you miss plague? Fungal growth is like the ungodly spawn that results when lockdown missiles and defilers have sex.Not only does it does damage but it renders your units immobile for a few seconds.And unlike Plague you can acquire this at lair tech. :D

BTW:The Terrans have Darkswarm. It's called the PDD or Point Defense Drone. :p
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
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297
I don't know... it just pains me to play as zerg. They are my favourite race and I suck with them. Even though recently I am managing to have a very good economy with zerg and my skills are improving, every win still feels like I have almost managed to fail...
 

YourFace

<span style="color:#9C9C9C;"><strong>Runner Up - T
Reaction score
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Blizzard, if I do say so myself, has made the game very balanced. For example, zergs are good at scouting and zergling rushing, mutas and mass hydras. Their ablitiy is to mass is also the best among all three races, so you'll need to focus more on watching your resources than other races. If you mass a lot of zerglings, hydras, and mutas, you can easily counter M&M with tanks or whatever terrans use against zergs.

Yes zergs are easily to kill, but they can also mass units a lot better than other races. Banelings massed and burrowed can bring some serious shit to terrans.
 

Siretu

Starcraft 2 Editor Moderator
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BANANAMAN

Resident Star Battle Expert.
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Huh. I never had problems scouting against terrans. But i see their point.

Maybe make the Overlord slightly faster?
 

Joccaren

You can change this now in User CP.
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Well, you should always 'waste' your first overlord scouting the enemy then spam overloards after that (Make sure you have a good defence against anything first) to overfill your supply so you can 'waste' more scouting.

Another thing is to have a 'defence against everything' of sorts. I usually, whilst my first hatchery is upgrading, build 3 spine crawlers with a spore crawler nearby (Cloak detection), around 12 Zerglings, 8 Roaches, 4 Banelings and 3 queens. After that, I'll just up the numbers of all 3 and add hydralisks into the mix before using mutas as a quick scout to see what I should be adding more of. Whilst this combination can be beaten, it can defend against anything for at least a short time. During the defencive time, I spam whatever counters my attackers. It usually works to keep my safe but, it can have some problems.

The main problem is learning when to stop building a 'defence against everything' army. When versing the protoss, if they don't attack me in the first 10 minutes, I almost know they are going for spammed carriers. immortals and collossi.

Terrans are somewhat less predictable but massed mutas counter most of their units.
 

BANANAMAN

Resident Star Battle Expert.
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I don't know investing in more than 3 spine crawlers unless absolutely necessary that early on seems like a wast of minerals that could've gone into unit or infrastructure development.

Also don't leave idle units in bases unless your expecting a push(Obviously queens are an execption to this rule unless your strategy requires you to spread creep.Which it should be done with at least one or two extra queens not aiding in unit production/base defense).How do you know when a push is coming? Spread out a few infolings (single zerglings placed in important strategic positions) what makes this different than leaving idle units in your bases? For one you get vision of a important strategic location be it a choke or an expo along with information if and when the enemy is moving out,taking an expansion,etc. This is slightly better than spreading out Overlords/Overseers IMO.

Only Chuck Norris can win against thors with massed mutas. ;)
 

celerisk

When Zerg floweth, life is good
Reaction score
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" they are going for spammed carriers "

Carriers?
You mean you're actually seeing those used in games?
Amazing...

The only time I met those was during the beta on the "novice" maps (with extra rocks),
where most players just massed the Ultimate Doom Army, hoping to end it all with one hit.
Needless to say, that didn't work out (for them that is).


" The main problem is learning when to stop building a 'defence against everything' army "

How about right now? As in, this very instant?
This isn't StarVille or SimFarm, this is war in space.

Instead of sitting in your base and building up for the time he might come, or maybe not,
you should be out there in the field doing damage, carnage and general mayhem.

Because once you hit a higher league, this style isn't going to work anymore.
They will come for you. And won't wait until you are ready for it.
They will come whenever they feel like it.
And keep you nicely inside your cute little base... then crush you without mercy (as it should be).


" around 12 Zerglings, 8 Roaches, 4 Banelings and 3 queens "

OK...
And, at what time you actually do something with them?
It's fun, sort of, to sit in your base, watching your Queen spawn larvae (and turning blind from overdoing it),
but that's not going to win you games.

Never let your opponent just sit there and power up.
You should be right in his face, rubbing it in.
Constantly.
Permanently.


" you should always 'waste' your first overlord scouting "

Actually, you should to your best never to waste your first Overlord.
It's OK mid-game and later to send in... whatever can be send in.
But that first Overlord is too important to go to waste.
It puts you too far behind.

The trouble with Zerg is that they need some time to get anywhere.
Problem being that you have to decide between either Drones or troops (or structures).
Other races can do both at once.

The one game mechanic that the Zerg have is the ability to spawn whatever they need from any Hatchery.
However, that also means us poor Zerg are up to a slow start...

Once you have an expansion up and running, you're set.
Well, set enough to start making a difference.
With two... we're talking.

Single-base Zerg can not win. (6pool cheese doesn't count :p)




" Only Chuck Norris can win against thors with massed mutas "

And plenty other people.
DON'T CLUMP THEM UP!
Notice how they spread out when stopping? Keep that formation and just "stop" them once in range or over them.
(Means the splash won't hit anything)

'course, "mass" here means 20+... :p



" every win still feels like I have almost managed to fail "

Nah. Every win is one more win for the swarm.

In 5000 years from now, when alien archeologists dig out the StarCraft archives, they won't know anymore why we fought or even just who we were.
But they will know who won!
 

YourFace

<span style="color:#9C9C9C;"><strong>Runner Up - T
Reaction score
91
" they are going for spammed carriers "

Carriers?
You mean you're actually seeing those used in games?
Amazing...

The only time I met those was during the beta on the "novice" maps (with extra rocks),
where most players just massed the Ultimate Doom Army, hoping to end it all with one hit.
Needless to say, that didn't work out (for them that is).


" The main problem is learning when to stop building a 'defence against everything' army "

How about right now? As in, this very instant?
This isn't StarVille or SimFarm, this is war in space.

Instead of sitting in your base and building up for the time he might come, or maybe not,
you should be out there in the field doing damage, carnage and general mayhem.

Because once you hit a higher league, this style isn't going to work anymore.
They will come for you. And won't wait until you are ready for it.
They will come whenever they feel like it.
And keep you nicely inside your cute little base... then crush you without mercy (as it should be).


" around 12 Zerglings, 8 Roaches, 4 Banelings and 3 queens "

OK...
And, at what time you actually do something with them?
It's fun, sort of, to sit in your base, watching your Queen spawn larvae (and turning blind from overdoing it),
but that's not going to win you games.

Never let your opponent just sit there and power up.
You should be right in his face, rubbing it in.
Constantly.
Permanently.


" you should always 'waste' your first overlord scouting "

Actually, you should to your best never to waste your first Overlord.
It's OK mid-game and later to send in... whatever can be send in.
But that first Overlord is too important to go to waste.
It puts you too far behind.

The trouble with Zerg is that they need some time to get anywhere.
Problem being that you have to decide between either Drones or troops (or structures).
Other races can do both at once.

The one game mechanic that the Zerg have is the ability to spawn whatever they need from any Hatchery.
However, that also means us poor Zerg are up to a slow start...

Once you have an expansion up and running, you're set.
Well, set enough to start making a difference.
With two... we're talking.

Single-base Zerg can not win. (6pool cheese doesn't count :p)




" Only Chuck Norris can win against thors with massed mutas "

And plenty other people.
DON'T CLUMP THEM UP!
Notice how they spread out when stopping? Keep that formation and just "stop" them once in range or over them.
(Means the splash won't hit anything)

'course, "mass" here means 20+... :p



" every win still feels like I have almost managed to fail "

Nah. Every win is one more win for the swarm.

In 5000 years from now, when alien archeologists dig out the StarCraft archives, they won't know anymore why we fought or even just who we were.
But they will know who won!

Carriers are a major plus in solo actually. You just need to make a fleet beacon after a void ray rush and tower up. Trust me I've played over 400 games in the beta, and I'm a diamond player right now. I don't know if my win rate counts as anything since sc2 counts custom games too, which is really annoying, ugh the new profile sucks.
 

BANANAMAN

Resident Star Battle Expert.
Reaction score
150
Thors just out right negate mutalisks when in groups of 5 or more. :rolleyes:

Basically the thor user can just target two separate mutalisks in the group of nine if he has two to three thors distributing the splash damage evenly even if they're spread out (to escape the splash damage of the thor you have to be out of the mutalisk's attack range) . The Mutalisks can't simply out dps the thor unless we're talking about 20+ mutas against 3 thors. :p
 

celerisk

When Zerg floweth, life is good
Reaction score
62
" Thors just out right negate mutalisks when in groups of 5 or more "

Well, depends on the amount of Mutalisks.
For 5 Thors... about 16 should do. And you'll have at least half left. (That's without any upgrades)
 

Viikuna

No Marlo no game.
Reaction score
265
Thor is too hard counter to mutas. When terran comes with their unit ball, its damn hard to snipe those thors when theres svc repairing them and maybe some marines shooting your mutas too.

Also terran push doesnt neccesarily rely on thors only for anti air.

Terran can easily use thor repairing scvs to build turrets around the place where he sits his tank army to bombard your base.

Also mutas are gas heavy, just like most of zerg units. Having enough mutas to take out thors requires quite many bases, and terran can do tank+thor+helion push really damn fast. When they got their first thor out, you rarely have too many mutas to take it down.
 

BANANAMAN

Resident Star Battle Expert.
Reaction score
150
That's why knowing to transition to Roach/Ultraling or Roach/Ultra/Infestor to deal with thor based unit compositions is important. Basically each combo has twice the meatiness (roach/Ultra) with one combo possesing great dps in the form of Zerglings while the other one has great support in the form of the Infestor's Infested Terrans,Fungal growth and Neural parasite.

Basically It's either you take a gamble to keep producing less mutalisks and more gas into banelings as you slowly transition to Roach/Ultra/Infestor or Roach/Ultra/Ling (Or Hydra) to delay them from reaching critical mass as long as possible while outright cutting mutalisk production would mean you have to fully devote yourself into a build specifically designed to what you think the terran ball would be made out of.

A mostly Bio Ball which is to say mostly composed of Infantry units such as Marines with some dropships,some tanks and a thor or two would come out sooner but is still vulnerable to Muta/ling/Baneling while a mostly Mech ball which composes of Tanks,Hellions and Thors requires a much more tougher unit composition such as Roach/Ultra/ling (Or Hydras for some AA support) with the odd Infestor for support.
 

Oninuva

You can change this now in User CP.
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Carriers are a major plus in solo actually. You just need to make a fleet beacon after a void ray rush and tower up. Trust me I've played over 400 games in the beta, and I'm a diamond player right now. I don't know if my win rate counts as anything since sc2 counts custom games too, which is really annoying, ugh the new profile sucks.

Win/Loss Ratio is only counter for Ranked games
 
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