[Discussion] The Power of Intelligence

[Seprest]

You could test whether or not int is worth it by playing a few melee games btw...

Mana is always an issue for spell casters, since they are constantly casting spells. An archmage spamming water elemental and blizzard would go oom if he didn't get extra int when he leveled up... In terms of items, casters should always get some buff to hp for survivability. Melee heroes usually skip over int because their abilities are not generally their main source of dmg, but generally used for utility (stuns, aoe in cirtain situations ec.). Overall, int is not in high demand but is just as important as any stat depending on what hero you are using.

Many custom maps give up on mana management, esp since many set the level cap so high, provide low cost tomes of power, and make the game more 'fun' by providing a high quantity of castable abilities with low mana costs.

btw, I really hate statements like "I remember reading that the STR and AGI values of a hero are much more powerful than INT" The main function of a hero being str/agi/int based is that each stat gives extra damage, you hop over that point like you've never played WC3! Deeper mana pools = more spells, more dmg, spellcasters are called SPELL-CASTERS for a reason!

 

[BlueMirage]

STR gives overall HP.
AGI gives armor.

Make INT give magic resistance the same way AGI gives armor.

 

[Dirac]

I like to think of casters as playin "risky"

Why is that? you have very little low hp and no armor, but u hit fuckin hard. Whats the trick? u must be careful to avoid damage, int heroes are not bad for being int, but they should be good for having escaping methods, or at least a way to keep the target away from you.

Look at wow (i played as a lvl 80 mage) when pvp is very fuckin hard to hit a mage, because of the blink, counterspell, shields and images, but when they do im pretty fuckin screwed, and in wow int does the same thing as in w3

The attribute isnt bad, the hero is

 

[Jinxx]

STR gives overall HP.
AGI gives armor.

Make INT give magic resistance the same way AGI gives armor.

You, sir, have just hit the nail on the head. Congratulations, you've just single-handedly pwned this thread - it makes sense for "smart" arcane-type caster heroes to actually have magical damage mitigation! :thup:

::rushes off to impliment a system with INT increasing magic resistance::

 

[Curo]

I agree, the magic resistance idea was a good one. However, be sure to give it diminishing returns similar to armour.

 

[Jinxx]

I agree, the magic resistance idea was a good one. However, be sure to give it diminishing returns similar to armour.

Hmm... any ideas on how to actually implement this? As far as I know, the damage taken events can't distinguish as to the actualy *TYPE* of the damage being inflicted, and that damage detection system floating around the Helper forum requires all the spells in the map to be custom triggered in order to detect the damage type.

Is there any simpler way to do this, or am I doomed to hours of slave labor of manually coding every single spell just to be able to detect magical damage?

 

[Happysmiley]

problem solved, this is for ladder maps, you can always make it your own in custom maps IE dota, my storm will pwn your urs

This is because you build the hero with damage/surviveability items, essentially making him an agi hero. Int will always be inferior to agi/str unless blizzard somehow implements int based spell damage. Until then, ints' are gimped due to the fact that their damage comes from spells which do a set amount, whereas agis rely on their physical attacks which get better the more items you have.

 

[Nivius]

when i was working on my swamp arean which is kinda on hold atm i thinked in a diffrent way.

a unit that normaly uses agi for damage as he need speed to do dmg. i kinda changed it so that hes most "uselss" stat was the one that give damage.

this makes as an example a ordinary paladin AGI as hes dmg gain. where he have high survivalbilaty whit str witch is great and the int is great for hes spells, but then agi was quite usless for him. this way all stats seemed balanced.

also i changed the amount of attackspeed gained from agi as the orginal ammount is meant for heroes whit no more then 10-30 agi, and not 300

a pure no mana useage hero had int as damage, just to balance it all out...
a pure "mage" hero has srt as damage, as hes quite weak anyway why waste stats/items that give life when hes one shot either way?

balance

 

[mapguy]

I have a bunch of soome solutions for your problem:

- reduce mana gained from INT, this will cause a major mana reduction in your heroes causing also STR and AGI heroes to need some INT.

- greatly reduces the cooldown of the magics for INT heroes only, for example, if a hero has frost nova with 4 levels, do this (cooldown: 10, 9, 7, 4). by this, int heroes will need more mana to spam magics.

- put some magics like MANA SHIELD or others which requires a great use of mana.

- create an item which increases the power, reduces cooldown and increases mana cost of all spells (including ultimate), but this item only works for INT heroes.
note: if an ability has only 4 levels, this item will upgrade the skill to a 5th stronger level.

- create active item which are powerfull but need a great amount of mana to use, for example:
GLOVES OF ZEUS:
+ 40 attack speed.
+ 10 intelligence.
+ lightning arc (active)
ligtning arc creates a chain of electricity which damages up to to 5 enemies dealing 200 damage to the first and 10% extra damage for each bounce.

- you can also create simple itens like this one:
SPELL BOOK:
+ 10 intelligence.
+ 300 manapoints.
+ curse (active - single target)
curse: places a dark magic in the target reducing it's magical resistance by 40% for 5 seconds.

or

MASK OF NIGHTMARE
+ 300 hitpoints.
+ 10 inteligence.
+ spell hunger (passive)
spell hunger: every time this hero deals damage with a spell it gains 25% of that damage in health (the maximum amount of life gained is 200 per cast)*

* hello! 200 per cast because if not AOE magics becomes overpowered.

I HOPE I COULD HELP YOU...

 

[mapguy]

when i was working on my swamp arean which is kinda on hold atm i thinked in a diffrent way.

a unit that normaly uses agi for damage as he need speed to do dmg. i kinda changed it so that hes most "uselss" stat was the one that give damage.

this makes as an example a ordinary paladin AGI as hes dmg gain. where he have high survivalbilaty whit str witch is great and the int is great for hes spells, but then agi was quite usless for him. this way all stats seemed balanced.

also i changed the amount of attackspeed gained from agi as the orginal ammount is meant for heroes whit no more then 10-30 agi, and not 300

a pure no mana useage hero had int as damage, just to balance it all out...
a pure "mage" hero has srt as damage, as hes quite weak anyway why waste stats/items that give life when hes one shot either way?

balance

sorry for double posting.

I don't think this is balanced...

and it's weird and senseless. why an INT hero would damage with strength ?

 

[Jinxx]

- reduce mana gained from INT, this will cause a major mana reduction in your heroes causing also STR and AGI heroes to need some INT.

- greatly reduces the cooldown of the magics for INT heroes only, for example, if a hero has frost nova with 4 levels, do this (cooldown: 10, 9, 7, 4). by this, int heroes will need more mana to spam magics.

Awesome advice mapguy! This thread has alot of unique ideas, but the ones you mentioned in this quote are really excellent! Thank you! :thup: