So... SC2 makes me wonder -.-

[NightShade]

Question, have you seen the gameplay before various patches in Sc1? it wasn't a balanced game, and wasn't what we know of Sc1 today, it was pretty unbalanced, then as more patches came out, the more Starcraft became better and better of a game, and broodwar helped a lot too.

That's true, but Blizzard has gone wrong on a very fundamental level, with everything being on B.net, they're not going to change that in the next 5 years.

So seriously everyone, stop bitching, not one of Blizzards games WASNT successful(PC Games). You can't expect perfection RIGHT when it comes out, its not PERFECT, and this game, as all others WILL be quite successful.

So if a game is successful it has to be good?
I really dislike wow but it's blizzards most successful game.

I don't care whether the game is successful or not, That doesn't affect me in the slightest way. I do care if the game is bad, that effects me in every way.

 

[kingbdogz]

with everything being on B.net, they're not going to change that in the next 5 years.

They've already stated that they are currently fixing the issues addressed on B.net 2.0 and at Blizzcon 09 they said that with each expansion comes new units, new editor features, and for your concern, new features for B.net 2.0. Don't worry so much, it'll be fixed.

 

[NightShade]

Note how I said that I was annoyed at everything being on B.net (no LAN 'n stuff), not with B.net its self. Though I am annoyed with how B.net looks right now, but that will hopefully get fixed.

 

[DKigorDK]

i couldent stop thinking why discuss the editor, you do know that when warcraft 3 came out with its editor it sucked, it sucked bigtime, it was first after the frozen throne came that the editor was upgraded to what is it today (roughly)

 

[Doomhammer]

Just because the editor isn't all you wanted it to be doesn't mean that there isn't going to be custom maps, and even plently of good custom maps. People learned to deal with the major drawbacks of wc3 after a while.

No idea how good they are, but - just for reference - over there at http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/ maps are popping out at a rate of about one every few hours around the clock, every day, since april

 

[Kildare]

Thank IceFrog for it's popularity.

This is slightly off-topic but IceFrog wasn't the one who made DotA. DotA along the years since it was created was passed down to many different authors, namely some famous ones such as Guinsoo and Icefrog. I don't even know who the ORIGINAL author is lol.


As regarding SC2 however, i somewhat agree with some of Lyerae and Co.'s opinions yet disagree with others. I agree that SC2 is SERIOUSLY lacking in many aspects, most of it being in the editor. While it's true that the physics and gameplay of SC2 is far more advanced and impressive than its predecessors, it doesn't mean that its developers should ignore all the "minor" problems and complaints we have against the game. If a game CAN be made better, it SHOULD be made better. Anything else is just a lack of professionalism and plain laziness. There are just TOO MANY small issues with the editor and bnet that it may possibly evolve into a large issue and cause players to lose interest in the game. I don't need to tell you that many potentially epic games lost out in the market because of "minor"(to the devs) issues.

However, despite these drawbacks i still think that SC2 will be popular for a few years, if not many, for the following reasons:
1) Blizzard has too huge of a fanbase to die off so quickly in a matter of 1-2 years.
2) However many problems SC2 has, it IS still far superior than its predecessors.
3) There is still many cool and epic custom games never seen before that can be made DESPITE the many problems we mapmakers face with the editor.
4) New expansions, if done right, CAN serve to prolong the lifespan of a game. Just look at Dawn of War. Note i said "IF" it is done right.

The issue here now is just that i think that the game CAN be made better and last longer IF ONLY Blizzard fixes those things, which Blizzard doesn't SEEM to be acting on it(i just hope its otherwise). Why limit the quality of the game when you possess the ability to make it better? That's what baffles me. One would think that for all the number of years Blizzard made us wait for the game, they would have did it to the best they could, just like with the PREVIOUS games that Blizzard has made. Blizzard's been having a good streak of well-made, top-notch, cutting-edge games. Why stop now?

 

[Doomhammer]

While it's true that the physics and gameplay of SC2 is far more advanced and impressive than its predecessors, it doesn't mean that its developers should ignore all the "minor" problems and complaints we have against the game.

Seriously, the physics aren't amazing at all. C'mon, rubble rolling down a ramp, and that's about all the physics there is. Some guys made a physics system for Wc3 using vJass, and it was way ahead of what SC2 offers in that regard. The real brilliance is to be found in the artwork, especially the floor textures all look great, units have more polys, and the custom lighting is now a formidable tool for artists to give a map or scene any mood they want. So these are the great technical pro's in my opinion.

If a game CAN be made better, it SHOULD be made better. Anything else is just a lack of professionalism and plain laziness.

Well, no. There are also economic considerations. If feature XY is not seen as crucial for selling the game, then why waste ressources on it?

The issue here now is just that i think that the game CAN be made better and last longer IF ONLY Blizzard fixes those things, which Blizzard doesn't SEEM to be acting on it(i just hope its otherwise). Why limit the quality of the game when you possess the ability to make it better?

I personally think this is to a large extent due to the new company policy after the merger with Activision and the new common CEO Robert Kotick. He's not a gamers' guy. And he gives a sh** about quality. So now it's only the 'selling arguments' that will see the light of the day. And in some way the 'control arguments', i.e. need for online connection to allow for offline gaming, no LAN, etc.

 

[Kildare]

Seriously, the physics aren't amazing at all. C'mon, rubble rolling down a ramp, and that's about all the physics there is. Some guys made a physics system for Wc3 using vJass, and it was way ahead of what SC2 offers in that regard. The real brilliance is to be found in the artwork, especially the floor textures all look great, units have more polys, and the custom lighting is now a formidable tool for artists to give a map or scene any mood they want. So these are the great technical pro's in my opinion.

Well, the fact that whether the physics is "impressive" in itself or not is not the point. What i'm trying to say is SC2 is in fact a huge improvement(despite the "problems) over WCIII and SC1. But even though it's an improvement, they could STILL make it better with their current abilities.

Well, no. There are also economic considerations. If feature XY is not seen as crucial for selling the game, then why waste ressources on it?

Considering the tons of cash that Blizzard is undoubtedly going to make(and have been making) these "minor" issues shouldn't even be a problem cash-wise at all. If fixing these issues will make customers happier, then i doubt i would call them a "waste of resources". They're already breaking Business Ethics #1 - The Customer is Always Right! xD

 

[BANANAMAN]

Blizzard's been having a good streak of well-made, top-notch, cutting-edge games. Why stop now?

Because with the Activision merge Blizzard does not have full control on when they want the game to be released.Activision wants it out and earning money without any care on the quality of the game so Blizzard can't just push back the release date willy nilly.

 

[punwisp]

Because with the Activision merge Blizzard does not have full control on when they want the game to be released.Activision wants it out and earning money without any care on the quality of the game so Blizzard can't just push back the release date willy nilly.

Wrong, Blizzard has stated they have full control over there games. However I can see how in the future, activisions Greedy nature can merge over to blizzard. Though I think the merge was more to benefit eachother with sales more than anything, but thats me.

 

[Doomhammer]

Considering the tons of cash that Blizzard is undoubtedly going to make(and have been making) these "minor" issues shouldn't even be a problem cash-wise at all. If fixing these issues will make customers happier, then i doubt i would call them a "waste of resources". They're already breaking Business Ethics #1 - The Customer is Always Right! xD

I totally agree. Yet perfectionism could end up desastrous as well, especially when a developer doesn't know where to stop and be satisfied with what has been made. Here's a nice example from Wc3: Most of the extra buildings such as dens, huts and nests have no building animation. Well, wasn't needed for the campaign. But for mappers who just found that building useful if it could be built, it would have been great to find all the assets with complete animations. In the mission pack, the Naga are introduced, you can play with them in a few missions, but they're not really integrated into the game (selectable as a race, full tech tree, complete unit and building lineup, etc.)
Given many of those small and tiny details cost time and money, and to some extent are barely noticed, cutting them down to 'what you see is half you get' can be the most efficient solution. Of course, with chat rooms, LAN support and other mechanics that are expected to come as a matter of course, we're not talking about details in artistic lusciousness anymore.
But these decisions have surely been made for other reasons.

 

[black.sheep]

I find that the editor has everything for a newbie mapper to use, once you get over the massive block that is the data editor (Which isn't even that hard)
Also, if your worried about models, look though them. You'll see a shitload of models that haven't been added to the game yet to reduce the beta filesize.

 

[BANANAMAN]

Robert A. Kotick is evil.