The Final Merge

[Nestharus]

Now we all knkow about all the different types of maps right?

Footmen Wars
DotA
Wintermaul Wars
RPGs
ORPGs
Hero Arenas
Ladder
Blah blah blah
More blah blah blah

Now, let's look at an RPG

What does a good RPG have? Well, most RPGs are just, kill, kill, kill, level up, kill, get gear, kill, bleh, i rock, bleh bleh bleh, after a few hours you're like more bleh..

Let's look at past RPGs such as FF7
FF7 included things almost like ladder where you fight off an army from Shinra

It included mini-games

Now, let's look at more recent RPGs like Oblivion

Oblivion had small mazing elements in it such as traps

However, it held little strategy save for building your character

Let's look at maybe things like Spellforce, a merge between Ladder type games and RPG type games. It ended up sucking, heh.

Now, what might we do to sort of bring this all together in an ultimate game?

Well, I have finally figured it out. Games are extremely limited. What can you do in mazes? It has a limit. What can you do in DotA? That has a limit. Footmen Wars? Ladder? They all have limits in strategy, gameplay, and so forth.

As many of you know, I've started projects aplenty. First I was going into a major wintermaul wars map with 4 different difficulties (race based), 5 tiers of shrines, lumber auto-exchange, and so forth. I was somewhat of a beginner map maker at this time, but bleh, I found out how many limits something like this really had..

So, then I went into mazes.

After awhile, I finally designed a beautiful high quality but small maze. After thinking of designing other mazes, I decided that mazes were extremely limited.

I went on to AoS type games with Final Dominion. I designed a new melee combat system. I designed a new spawning systems, fortresses, the works.

I found out how many limits that had so I tried putting an RPG with it, bad idea. I stopped that project.

I went on to footmen wars for the heck of it. Began working on 4 different areans all of different difficult, the final having fortresses, morale, and so forth. I designed a new hero growth system after looking into Oblivion a bit (I upgraded Oblivion majorly). This hero growth system included 9 stats and many many many different skills, and once again, it was limited.

So finally, I looked into an old maze map I had been designing. It had a full story and everything. I had been wanting to make a Maze RPG, but maybe that wasn't what I wanted

No, I wanted to use that new combat system

I wanted to use mazing (interactive dungeons and forests and so forth)

I wanted to use my hero growth system

I wanted to use my new inventory system

I wanted to use my spawning system (wars, becoming a general with ranks and so forth if you go into that)

I wanted to use all 11 stats, not just 9, including all the skills that go along with them (lots of stuff including full Merchant and Artisan Classes)

In-Game guilds, the works

And so, I decided to create that RPG I've wanted to create so terribely.

Well, ORPG really, but a main storyline of events and so forth, working around it and everything..

Now, in wc3, this is still very limited... so, it'd have to be split up into multiple maps of course.. ><

Think about other RPGs/ORPGs
Trading?
This will have trading. I have figured out an anti-dup system for trading
Merchanting?
You will be able to open shops
Creating ships?
Sure
Dungeons?
Aplenty
Upgradeable Gear?
Yup
New Combat Sytem?
You can count on it
Acts?
Of course. You don't have to follow the main storyline to get from act to act though. However, I am thinking of making this really an RPG as I have a very good storyline.


So, this will actually be an RPG, but not to worry...


How it works out:

First, you choose your race, then you decide what order of importance your stats will be in from 1 to 11 (major stat, second major, and so on)

They will recieve bonuses accordingly

Based on the stats you chose, you may be innately familiar with certain skills. However, you will never be asked to choose a class. The class will slowly mold to you. This doesn't mean you can master every single skill in the game. You have a potential for skills based on your race, the stats, and the skills you end up using. If you tried to be an Ogre Mage, I doubt you'd be able to master any skill. That'd be pretty interesting tho ;p

Building things won't be so easy either, you will need skills for them, and these will be like any other skill, meaning you won't be able to master them unless you really want an artisan type character.

This map will also have unlockable races I think based on the act you've gotten to.

Epic Weapons

Fully Triggered Abilities

You won't just have 3-4 skills, it'll use spell books, and yes, you will be able to level these skills.. = P

Now another issue I will be addressing. Do you know how on RPGs on Wc3, when you die, you respawn in town.

Well, that will change.

In this, you will have a certain amount of lives. Once they are all gone, game over, you lose.

You will only get 3 lives, so use them very wisely. However, to save lives, you may have someone revive you.

There will be multiple types of levels. Master levels (a real level), and inside levels. As you gain master levels, more real levels will be required to get up there.

Lets' say there's exp (the purple on your leveling bar)

Then there are small levels (the level appearing on your hero)

Then there are master levels, which are your regular levels, and will appear as food.

Then, there are ranks, like class-ups

So, when you fill up the purple bar, you get a level

When you get 10 levels for level 0 master level (this number will increase), you go up to level 1 master level

When you get 4 Master levels (this number will increase), you rank up, meaning your model slightly changes and your class is more defined

How many rank ups are there?

So far I am thinking 10-12

Interesting? Very

The exp req'd will go up as you level

The % of exp you gain from a kill will go down as you level

The req'd levels to get a master level will go up as you level (for example, if you are rank 2 and trying to get to Master Level 1, it might take 60 levels instead of 10)

Now, you can still get stronger. Leveling isn't all there is

First:
Only mastering a skill will be based on your final class..
So your skill potentials will be quite high

Let's say the base strength for an ogre is 350 and the base strength for an elf is 35. That's pretty realistic isn't it?

Now, when you choose your # major attribute, you get a 50% bonus to it. Elves top attribute obviously isn't strength, so if you wanted to be an axe-wielding elf, that'd be a little weird as axes are largely based on strength, heh.

You'd get the 50% increase, but you'd pretty much ruin your character.

So, let's say you go for the 50% increase as an ogre.

350 * 1.5 = 525 strength

That's a lot

Now, you get a damage increase for strength based weapons. The highest damage increases are for 1-hand blunt, 2-hand blunt, 1-hand axe, and 2-hand axe. Other things recieve damage increases as well, such as blades, but they are not as significant. Blades are more largely based on Dexterity.

Now, a skill might have a possible 1000 skills points. When you hit 500, you attack with 100% of the weapons damage. When you hit 1000, you attack with 200%. Also, as you level up these skills, you get new abilities. They must be learned though.

Now, remember what I said about potential? Based on the defining stats, your potential for a skill will be limited. For example, with 525 strength alone, you will only be able to go up to a skill level of 525, 1 for each strength. The rest is based on a small amount of stat increases (very very very few in the RPG, maybe 50 points worth), and your defining class. If you don't end up defining as a warrior type character, you'll never max out. There are maybe 30 different skills in the game, and at most, you might be able to master 8 of them, meaning you might go strongly into combat and you might pick up an artisan skill if you want. Some might get to 800, some might get to 400, and some might only get to let's say 15

An Ogre is very stupid, so if you tried to raise their Wisdom or Intelligence, it might go up to 25 or so...

There are going to be maybe 20 different races all with different strengths and weaknesses. You can also successfully make hybrids if you are good enough, but as a beginner, it is highly suggested to stick with single type guys. Hybrids would be more powerful than their single type guys, but they would be a lot harder to define, meaning a lot harder to master as many skills as you want unless you really know what you are doing.

I hope you like these ideas. I am probably going to change the skill mastery around a bit, but yes, it will be quite limited to what you can fully master.

Also, going out of town might not be very safe

Without a weapon, you are prone to doing very very very little damage. 2,250 damage really isn't all that much considering how the combat system will work.

Sorcerers = Sorcerers will have spells that get exponentially powerful, meaning they suck at first. These spells will also take vast amounts of mana and be prone to interruptions, but let's say if a class 3 Sorcerer goes against any other type of class, the sorcerer will probably kill it in 1 hit with a spell. This being said, be sure to know that spells are going to be very very powerful, but 1-2 of your strongest spells might fully deplete your energy source, meaning you will end up running slow and you will probably die in 1 hit. Sorcerers will probably be able to take mass amount of damage for the first hit, meaning even able to tank the strongest boss in the entire game for 1 hit due to the complexity of the combat system, but after that one hit, the sorcerer is dead, as their mana will be fully depleted.

Tell me of your ideas

I think I found a terrainer

Hopefully this project will go through as it has limitless capabilities compared to all of the other projects

Many of these systems are already developed

The save/load code isn't really developed, but new security features to make it impossible to crack are developed

The storyline is developed

 

[Linkoln]

Ok, first i wanna say that i read that entire thing, and well... Dam.
And second, at the begining you forgot "And Even More Blah blah blah.

Anyways, serious emote now :shades:,
This sounds like a very realistic game, wich i like very much. Its truthfull that mages would go down with a single blow, and mages would prolly blast everything in one hit.
That being said, Classes like agility would use alot of evasion, parrying, Crit, and etc. Shooting a fireball at an elf ranger would only have a dodge result from it.

And also, the mana regeneration system for mages would have to be extremely fast, meaning once they get out of combat they can regen fully in a few seconds, otherwise this game is gonna suck for mages.

Another also, Ogres are commonly know to be stupid, but alot are not, usualy two headers are smart.

One question, a dwarf is would be a strength class no doubt, but compaired to an ogre the're an ant. So if the dwarf was a higher level but same class, who would win, couse it looks like the ogre would.

Couple more questions;
-Will the animations show the weapons and armer?
-Can u have only one type of armer (Chestpeice, helmet, shield) at a time?
-Couldnt mages reflect spells?
-Can u make another post naming the Races and Classes plz?
-The Bosses, they gonna be Slash and Hack or Puzzle Bosses?

Anywho, I think this would be a cool Online Fighter RPG if you could controlle your blocking, parrying, evading, attacking, etc. But otherwise i dont know.

 

[Psiblade94122]

really with all those ideas, why not make an mmorpg instead of warcraft 3, cuz most of those game you listed are limited because of the warcraft system <it has its strenths and weaknesses> and one more note, dota is not a type f game, dota is modles after starcrafts AoS, thats why most sites use AoS for those types of games (AoS Aeon of Strife, created for starcraft, first map of its kind, made its way to warcraft 3 from various mappers, didnt get popular till allstars came out <a variant of the original dota>)

 

[Nestharus]

btw, later I said AoS, i was just listing popular maps/map types

Like wintermaul wars isn't a map type, it's a map. The map type there is Tower Wars ;p

Luckily, you can have:

Blocking
Parrying (not sure how I'll do this, but I've had a few ideas)
Aiming for attacks, including cleaving

And btw, mages don't go down in quite one hit

Based on the combat system

The more mana you have, the less dmg you take, but the more mana you lose when taking dmg. If you have let's say the mana of a mage, you'd be fully depleted in mana (energy) in 1 blow unless you have like shielding and protective spells. What this means is you move at half speed and you take 100% dmg. Energy is very important in this game. A warrior might have 550 hp and be able to tank 2250 dmg with 10 energy. Warriors have low energy so they lose very very little when they get hit, thus they sustain more dmg.

So, a mage depletes his mana, he better get out of there


Now, you will have to aim for spells unless they are like mass area of effect and so on or send out waves of energy.

Any spell can be dodged, even an energy wave as these will go out in small energy balls. I would never ever ever use a 100% energy wave and make it impossible to dodge, that's just wrong ><

Different types of damages. This game will have resistances and weaknesses based on a 200 scale. If you are at 0, you take 100% extra dmg from like fire, if you are at 100, you take regular dmg from like fire, and if you are at 200, you are immune to fire ;p

There will be immune to physicals monsters and so forth like elementals

Regen will be pretty high, but not so high that a sorcerer can replenish easily. If you are going full out dmg sorc, then you better get used to it. There are plenty of other builds.

Next, I can't list the classes, sorry, it's based on builds and potential

First, potential for skills is determined by stat points

Let's say you have 350 strength, this means you have a much higher potential for things like an axe, so you have a higher skill level you can attain.

The class molds to you. Next thing you choose is your major skills and so on. If you choose your str to be a major skill and it gets 50% increase, your potential just went up for the axe, and you began molding to a beginning class.

As the class molds to you based on skill you use, the potential for raising the skill will go up, meaning if you use strength based skills, your strength potential will go up for all of the skills. This means you will raise the potential for a wide array of skills. You won't know when you hit the potential of 1000, but it's possible to make beautiful hybrids.

This is where harder races like the dwarf come in

Yes, even though they are weaker, they can still get up to 1000 for potential. They won't do as much dmg, but they will have the same aiblities.

And they have the chance to become a successful and powerful hybrid build, such as a paladin, an aritisan, a merchant, and so forth. There are more possibilities for a dwarf than there are for an ogre.

Ogre = Warrior, they pretty much suck at anything else, heh

So I guess the real thing is

There are beginner races/builds

Then there are expert races/builds

You need to know what you're doing if you are going to try to make something to the effects of like a shadowknight or a defensive/offensive spell caster.

Further more, there are defenses against spell casting

As I said earlier, there are resistances

Next, you can counter the spell. Just by attacking them, it won't stop the spell based on their concentration skill..

However, you can use a counter spell to counter it if you hit them with it before they finnish their spell. The only thing you wno't be able to counter are instant spells, and believe me, there won't be many of those. Spells will need to be channeled.

Next, a sorcerer shouldn't have to cast their highest spell. As they get stronger, they would be able to use lower spells and so forth. Yes, casters will be harder to level and so forth, but in the end, they will be near impossible to kill. If no race had gear, a caster would probably destroy them all in one fell swoop when they are all at max. If they all had top gear, then they'd be more equal because warriors and so forth would have more decent defenses against the caster in question.

However, the caster might be a pure Fire/Ice elemental caster. You might be able to master 8 diff skills, but casting isn't just casting, there is

Fire
Ice
Water
Lightning
Poison
Death
Destruction
Light
Alteration (affects casting ability for diff types of spells)
Conjuration

and so forth

Then there are things like Alchemy


So, there are many types of sorcerers

: )

Pretty much, every character will be 100% unique

Ok, let's answer these questions now

-Will the animations show the weapons and armer?
-Can u have only one type of armer (Chestpeice, helmet, shield) at a time?
-Couldnt mages reflect spells?
-Can u make another post naming the Races and Classes plz?
-The Bosses, they gonna be Slash and Hack or Puzzle Bosses?

so..

#1:
I'll figure out a way, hmm.. The attack animations might be... weird, unless i can figure out a way to do it...
hmmm... hmm... But the armor and weapons will show on the character. The attack animations tho,

#2:
Not at all, you can have:
2 Earrings
Necklace
Helmet
Shoulderpads
Cape
Gauntlets
Greaves
Boots
2 Rings
1-2 swords (based on your abilities)
1 shield
1 bow (if you don't want the swords)
arrows
1 charm
1 robe (worn over clothing, but not armor)

kk, that sums that up

#3
Yes, this specific build would be like the spell controller build
They can:
Counter Spells
Reflect Spells
Control Spells
Duplicate Spells
Absorb Spells

#4
Races, yes, but as I said, there aren't any classes. There are possible builds though : ), so uh..
You want to build a strong assassin? Go all out agility/dexterity ftw ;p

#5
Both : )
With the new combat system, of course there will be this, but there will also be a puzzle side to it.

For exampe, I'll tell you one boss:
It is while escaping a dungeon. When you get out into the corridors, there are blades and so forth that are flying all over them. You have to get through, at the end is a forcewall held together by something you don't know about yet. A msg comes out, 6 shadows jewels will light your way. You go back and you find the first shadowed jewel, the next pops up. All this while, you are dodging the blades, they are instant kill.

When you get all 6, suddenly, there's a sort of earthquake. A spectre is in the center of this large dungeon. He sends out bolts of energy and so forth and scatters the six shadowed jewels back. You need to recollect them (they are easy to find still, but a bit harder to get, plus in different areas). When you get one, it damages the spectre. When you get all 6, he's down to half hp and he comes down to start fighting you. You fight him until he's dead.

Another example.
The very first boss is a Templar with 2 Ancient Guardians. The only way to dmg him is to kill the 2 Ancient Guardians first. You aren't expected to win this fight your first time around as they are powerful, but you can always go back and fight them again. He drops a key into the temple basement, which is extremely difficult....

Those are some small examples of bosses. Some puzzle, some hack, some just hack

: )

I'll try to come up with better ideas for these boss fights, kk, but the first boss I just want to be simple, especially since you are going to die to him the first time around (you won't lose a life tho)

^)^

 

[Sirroelivan]

I think it's a great idea, but it would be very difficult to balance everything out, and it would also be very complex for players, so it might not be very popular.

 

[Nestharus]

Well, I am now officially going to be programming it all in 100% JASS because JASS = way less code than GUI O-o

O-o

O-o

it's just, I just started it, so my combat system trigger broke : p, haha

 

[johnnyfire]

Holy shit... this sounds really complicated... GJ if you finish it but I doubt people will play it (no offense), i know that if somethings too complicated i wont play it.

 

[chovynz]

Things can be complex but user friendly. If it's well done people will play it. On the other hand if something is simple but clunky, no one will play it. Complex & deep does not equal complicated. They are two different things.

 

[Oninuva]

Heres a thought. NOBODY WANTS TO START OUT AS A DWEEB AND SLOWLY LEVEL UP AFTER HOURS AND HOURS JUST GO "Lurn2firebolt".


Sorry Caps.

__________________
Jonathan
Hosting Tutorial
I am not allowed to link to this. O well, your loss not mine.
Elite Footmen

 

[Nestharus]

Lucky for me the game isn't about training and so on like a regular RPG. It's based on going thru the storyline. Your primary source of experience won't be from killing monsters. In fact, you get nothing from killing monsters. You get experience from going thru the storyline (quests and so forth), and by increasing the levels of your abilities.

Of course, going thru the storyline would be a lot more fun, and you'd be using your abilities while doing it. But I guess, if you wanted to be weird and sit there for 30 hours casting a little fireball, go for it ><, lol

So, I'm getting a lot of mixed reviews. Most people believe it won't get finnished.

Well, The Melee Combat System is like.. uhm... done... the rects are screwy tho for those of you who've looked in the Jass Section Recently ><

Let's see, Spell Combat System was done when I was working on the foots map

Military system (spawning and so forth) has been done

Some terrain has been done

hmm..

So, let's get a clear idea of what this is:
You start out in the water on a boat. You're being chased down by legioneers and so on from the city. You see the island, you run there and so on. YOu end up doing a little fighting (boat fighting, pretty neato)

When you get to the island, your boat is trashed (so you don't get a cooleo boat : P)

The island has a large tropical jungle, many paths, some monsters, caves, traps, and a village. There is a blocked off area. At one point you hear about a hidden temple. When you return to the village at this point, it's burned to the ground, destroyed and so forth. The blocked off area is now cleared away. When you head back there, you find the temple. You need a key for it tho. You go out, get the key and so on, get back, open it up and start beginning your trek thru. There is a basement and then 3 levels. The basement is locked for when and if you return way later on ^)^.

So yea, this is going to be RPG style with waypoints and so forth. Only sorcerer type classes can use Waypoints. Everybody else is stuck with Waygates (waypoints in villages/towns/cities). Waypoints are also revive points for when you die.

So like I said earlier, there are obviously going to be different builds.

Maybe you are going to be very sucky at fighting, but good with things like traps? more of a mazer build?

Maybe you want to be that fighter?

Well, that is a clear idea of how this will work out. Hopefully, in the end it will evolve into something like this:

Adventure Packs (where you do adventures like mini RPGs with rewards and so forth)

Main Packs (like main areas, more of an ORPG feel to them)

TPoC would obviously be adventure-pack orientated because of the acts and so forth ^)^

So, hopefully, everyone really knows what this is now.

It looks like I found 2 terrainers, both of them friends, so that's good.

 

[Psiblade94122]

really i think for now you shuld lay off the story of the rpg element and finish importing your systems, the story can be biult in a cupple sittings, but systems take a wile (even importing, to make use of the new content), and if you dont like those game because of how they are limited, then why not make your own engin, those games are mostly limited becuse of warcraft's engin

 

[Nestharus]

Well, I'm working majorly on the combat system right now.

I've managed to make it form an arc and hit units along that curve : )

Weapons have:
Attack Range
Attack Radius
Attack Damge
# of units able to be hit
Cooldowns
Energy Cost

And luckily, it can all be done with the numpad, so it'd be pretty neato.

 

[Hero]

Heres a thought. NOBODY WANTS TO START OUT AS A DWEEB AND SLOWLY LEVEL UP AFTER HOURS AND HOURS JUST GO "Lurn2firebolt".


Sorry Caps.

__________________
Jonathan
Hosting Tutorial
I am not allowed to link to this. O well, your loss not mine.
Elite Footmen

Lol....although..(if I get what your saying) Everyone starts off as a noob even The Helper

________

I'm gonna submit some new smilies i want a XD one..lol

 

[johnnyfire]

well noobishness at 1st is inevitable... just make it easy to play and look cool and it will be a success... the important thing is that you are satisfied with the map.

im still a noob at the helper... oh danger *dun listen to him* but i have still learned a lot like dummy units... multiboards... dialogs... as long as noobs can learn, noobishness is fine

 

[Nestharus]

Well, like I said, there will be no *ghey* training involved.

The only thing that will be ghey and annoying are the items

Items start at + 0

You can add runes to them and so forth

Upgrade them to +15

Get special ingrediants and so forth to inlay into them

Pretty much, there are a few basics, maybe 3 diff basics for each wep, but you can upgrade these drastically to form your very own unique wep.

So, it's not about farming items, it's about upgrading your items ^)^

Of course, there will be some unique bases that drop from bosses, heh.. and unique gems and so forth too..

oh well, that's how the item system will work, and that's going to be the only tough part

btw, did I mention you do need trade skills to upgrade your items? : O

Or you need to hire another player to do it : O

and how many skills can you master? : O

 

[johnnyfire]

IMO... that seems reasonable except for the trade skills and hiring of another player... what if someone realizes the guy they have doesn't have the neccesary tradeskills and another player doesnt know how to help... thats where noobishness=pissed off players and it could possibly keep people from getting a good first impression of your map...

keep in mind i'm saying this as a noob myself (a lazy noob)... so i can't speak for everyone

 

[Nestharus]

You can't be everything ;p

that's why you plan your character before-hand ^)^

Single Class = Ez
Single Class with tradeskill = med
Hybrid = Hard
Hybrid with tradeskill = exprt

as you get better at planning and understand, you can create stronger and stronger combos, make up your own formulas

Sometimes you'll max skills out, sometimes you won't

it's all about finding that happy medium

anyways, you can always create like a 100% trader character to make your items for u, and you could make him to make items for others for a fee ^)^

this includes upgrades

I'll be working on re-working the way the hero growth works, heh

The leveling will stay the same, but the potentials sound messy, hmmm

 

[johnnyfire]

Ok thats sounds cool... i would just have an explanation in a map info section (stating the obvious i know), but the more i hear the better it sounds

 

[elmstfreddie]

Blah blah blah blah...
I stopped reading when the vultures started picking at my head.

Anyhow, as much as I enjoy new ideas, creative stuff, I don't like the idea.
The point of games is to get away from intellect, and do some mindless shit! Think about the most popular maps.
WMW
DotA
That requires TONNES of though process (sarcasm >_<)

I agree RPGs get tedious, but really that's what they are. Killing, leveling, killing more, leveling.
World of Warcraft. No different. Largest MMORPG, probably makes Blizzard stinking rich too.

Sorry to be a downer =/

 

[johnnyfire]

Well so long as there arent toooo many options and secrets it should be interesting