Removing Food and Wood= Problems?

[MrApples]

Ok, a long while ago, a guy decided Im gonna make a map with no food or wood costs(except for upgrades), add in dimplomacy, real world terrain, take out all the air units, and add alot of gold in. He named it World War 3.

Now I have been working with the World War 3 maps for some months now, I advertise my map is Balanced, but is it really?

People say that the Orcs are the strongest race(Due to Tuarens), and Im starting to think they might be right.

I need input on what the problems of just removing wood and food can cause, and how I could possibly fix it(By not adding it back in).

EDIT: There are no Air Units.

NOTE: Im more focused on the races being balanced.

 

[me.]

weaken stronger units, or make them cost more gold

 

[what666said]

If you can't figure the problem out you need to reconsider mapping at all...

On to the problem... even though this is stupidly obvious:

Removing wood and food meant that some units that had a low gold cost, and a high wood/food cost were suddenly MUCH cheaper than they were before. If you compared a units relative "output" (damage/spells/healing/etc) versus it's "cost" you would see the following:

Normal Game:

Output : Cost (basically the same ratio for all units, a little higher cost for a little less output as units get stronger.

When you remove wood/food:

The ratio of output:cost for a normal gold only unit does not change, but suddenly all other units have an ENORMOUS bonus to their ratio (output jumps compared to cost). So to make up for it, the units will need to cost more gold.

 

[Rad]

Well if they are big and slow, and theres units that can counter them it shouldnt be a problem. I can see having 20 tauren attack at once is kind of unfair, but same for chimeras and frost wyrms though. Pretty much any unit massed can be unfair, so thats why food was important. Its hard to balance things like that though as they are such different units... Take Command and Conquer Generals for example. Theres tanks, infantry and airplanes. The chinese have the Battle Fortress (Or whatever it was called...) that has high HP, damage, and two cannons. You can also put battle bunker on top. They can take on 3 standard tanks easy. It does have several weaknesses though, example airplanes strike fast and have 3 attack at once it might get one or two, but it still takes alot of damage. Also USA have laser guided missles for tanks, so a few rocket soldiers can counter it.

Ok Im going off track, taurens cant kill air units therefore just tell them to get air. Thats stills kind of gay though... But its not entirely imbalanced.

 

[MrApples]

Oh Big Point! Theres no air either.

what666said, I have thought of this you don't have to be rude about it, but I haven't thought of a way to combine the missing wood cost, and the gold cost properly. Also the food cost is gradual with some races and dynamic with others.

 

[MrApples]

Ok does anyone have any ideas on what the value of Wood/Food is in Gold, and how much cost I should decrease each unit by?

 

[pladams9]

Well the value of wood and foodin gold is rather is really rather arbitrary, but I think it would be something like:

100 wood = 50 - 75 gold (I would use 70.)*
1 food = 20 - 50 gold (I would use 40.)*

A unit costing 100 gold, 200 wood, and 2 food would now cost about 320 gold.

Now that might need adjusting, so I suggest you make those changes, and then adjust the cost based on complaints. For instance, if the Tauren are still too strong you could either make them weaker, come up with something to help counter them, or increase their cost. Cost might not be the answer because this would make it harder to get Tauren and that might have negative results. Reducing strength would probably be the best.

*Others might have extremely different ideas on these values. In general wood is cheaper because it can be collected faster and is more plentiful; food is much more expensive because you have to build for it and normally there's a limit of 100 or so.

 

[MrApples]

ANy more ideason the conversion rate, id need more opinions before I actually get started on balancing it.

 

[xPheRe]

I suggest too to make adjustments depending on the race.
Night Elfs can mine tons of lumber with no big effort, so lumber should matter less than in other races.
Undead also have a great advantage in lumber, because the unit that harvests lumber is also a melee one.
Lumber is very important for Orcs and Humans since they harvest it the same way.

pladams9 values would be Ok for Orcs and Humans.
Try reducing the numbers a little for undead and a little more for Night Elfs.

A similar thinking can be done with food, but I'm in a hurry