The influence of music

[KillerChi]

What is the influence of music to people? Can it really make one more likely to be suicidal/murderous/etc.? Can the lyrics really affect you in the long-term?
I, personally, don't think a song can have much effect on you in the long-term.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Let me clarify, I was referring to long term effects, and how it may affect your personality/what's right/wrong

 

[ElderKingpin]

yes.

"It bypasses the resistance of the mind and targets the receptiveness of the heart".

I don't think this is something that can be debated, there is no doubt that music can affect you, for good or bad.

--
Edit: To further my case...

When someone is down, they listen to music, it is something that is hard to be explained, like the above quote, it goes right towards the receptiveness of the heart, when you start listening to certain music, you might start to tap your toes to the rhythm, music is quite amazing. Well worth indulging oneself in it.

 

[SerraAvenger]

I am pretty sure that music has a huge influence on anyone.
I can assure you that the songs I listened to formed me on both political and emotional level. However, you can't say that the dependency is one sided only: Depending on your political views and emotional integrity/status, you will also prefer some music over other music.

Music can also increase your aggression level, increase the integrity of a group and explain the world.

I'm also certain that a lot of that happens subliminal.

Oh and I'm sure the music I listened to has a serious effect on my language. Since I'm listening to rap, I've noticed a shift in my day-to-day vocabulary towards a more sloppy one.

On a completely unrelated note: ouch. There just was a flash very close to me. I heard a "brrzt", then saw a bright flash, and swoosh there was a loud bang...
Impressive, and shocking.

 

[NightShade]

everyone agrees. how is this debatable?
I can't even find a way to be devil's advocate.

 

[Jimpy]

everyone agrees. how is this debatable?

Agree, but one could take a stance on level of influence music may have:

-In one sense you could listen to music and have it cheer you up.
-In another, music may be blamed for making you do radical things (bad/obvious example being Collumbine and Judas Priest, or other 'angry' music like Ramstein and Marilyn Manson)
-It may influence someone due to the cultural values the music is connected to
-Potential to egg someone on or do something they might not do without it, for example people listening to upbeat music while snowboarding, may invigorate them to go off a larger jump then they might feel comfortable doing otherwise

Most of us would likely say that blaming music for an incident of shooting is just a bad attempt at shifting blame.


However an interesting view point on the subject matter, is the music we allow ourselves to listen to more or less influential then the music we don't want to hear?


If a person is subjected to something they don't want to hear for hours and hours I am positive it has a far greater impact then a person listening to music they do want to hear.

For example listening to a square wave (warning, its not pleasant) for hours probably will have a dramatic effect on someone on a psychological level.

In my hypothetical situation:

-You have two test subjects.
-They have agreed to be part of a human behaviour test for the course of 3 days (Washroom, sleeping space, food, heating, TV / entertainment are all available, No audio though for said entertainment systems)
-The two candidates who were picked filled out a lengthy aptitude test with many red-herring questions so that they are unable to guess what is being tested precisely
-Pick two candidates who have answered that they would "Never harm or mistreat an animal."
-Place each in a seperate room with above listed faculties
-Play over a speaker system for one, calming music similar to what they like (taken from an answer on the questionair). For the other, play square waves at them with pitch changes every half hour.
-Give them both the option to kick a cat to be granted early exit from the room/testing

The cat must be kicked if the subject wishes to leave before their contract 3 day stay.

Guarantee the square wave user would kick the cat despite saying they wouldn't do such a thing.

 

[NightShade]

that somehow seems like a "bent" test. the results seem stacked. if you massaged one person and poked the other one with red hot nails you would get the same result. all you are proving is that people don't like some types of music.

-In one sense you could listen to music and have it cheer you up.
-In another, music may be blamed for making you do radical things (bad/obvious example being Collumbine and Judas Priest, or other 'angry' music like Ramstein and Marilyn Manson)
-Potential to egg someone on or do something they might not do without it, for example people listening to upbeat music while snowboarding, may invigorate them to go off a larger jump then they might feel comfortable doing otherwise

agree, agree, and agree.

music affects my mood and pulse and other such things. it also changes my perception of things, like in a movie.

 

[Jimpy]

that somehow seems like a "bent" test. the results seem stacked. if you messaged one person and poked the other one with red hot nails you would get the same result. all you are proving is that people don't like some types of music.

That's sort of the point, audio is present and people will react. My hypothetical situation would be a very explicit example of noise/music having a direct effect on a persons actions. From concluding this adequately and having some proofs of this being the case you can then go into specifics. Start broad then hone in. Controls the variables a bit better that way. While square waves are not music, music is just sequenced noise, and you could from there test and compare results say by replacing square waves with a genre of music people don't like. Or perhaps a more aggressive genre VS something slow and calming. Likely results would be less extreme as the sound used becomes more musical, however trends would likely become present. Extremity of unpleasant noise used would most likely correlate to altered behaviour within an individual.

You could hook people up to some sort of vital cataloging equipment to so you can follow temperature/heart beat, blood pressure, etc.

Perhaps so PETA isn't on my ass, you could replace kicking a cat with putting a lab rat in a garborator. The garborator would just be a chute to safety, but you could hook up a switch to a real one so it makes the noises and what not. This would have the appearance of being legit. Most people would test flick the switch and shit themselves when they find out it's 'functioning'.

music affects my mood and pulse and other such things. it also changes my perception of things, like in a movie.

Your wording here may not have been written with me picking at it in mind, but technically music/sound "changing [your] perception of things" is key. Part of your perception and senses is the ability to detect sound, and by replacing natural environment noises you are effectively removing one of the 5 senses with whats effectively ear candy. Literally handicapping yourself (the louder the volume blotting out other noises, the greater your self-handicapping). This may be an applicable theory as to why actions change, listening to music one likes. A music listener is handicapping themselves with pleasant music that they allow. Handicap someone with bad music or jarring noises and it is more noticeable that the person is down one of five sense systems. Kind of weakens a person in a way, and part of the brain may react poorly under the pressure of having no ability to detect noise. Regression (allowed handicap) VS Oppression (enforced handicap) at the core.

For comparison sakes, turn the lights off on someone so they can't see (taking their sight away, arguably a humans most important sense) and they get all cautious, fumbly, attentive and sometimes scared. Puts a person in a state of being prone. Similar effects by jarring someones ability to hear perhaps?

 

[NightShade]

does that first paragraph have a point? it seems to say that music has an effect on people and how to test which types of music would effect people most (which nobody is really going to do). it also seems to say that people will be effected by sound less when it gets more like music. which is possible but I think that music effects people in more specific ways.

I can still hear when I'm listening to music. it's more like dimming the lights a little.

or maybe we almost view music as a person, when it's slow, subdued, and sad we possibly get sad too or at least get less excited (like with a real person.). and when music is aggressive and loud, we get aggressive too (like with a real person.). and when it's upbeat and "cool" we feel the need to be "cool" too (the jumping off a higher ramp than normal snowboarding thing, like with a real person.).

just throwing ideas out there.

 

[Jimpy]

music when it's slow, subdued, and sad we possibly get sad too or at least get less excited (like with a real person.). and when music is aggressive and loud, we get aggressive too (like with a real person.). and when it's upbeat and "cool" we feel the need to be "cool" too (the jumping off a higher ramp than normal snowboarding thing, like with a real person.).

Well for 'testing' purposes, a song is near exponentially more complex in variables then just a square wave, so the expected results will obviously change as the audio shift is from noise to music. More easily definable results would be merited by responses from the simple wave due to less variables being in play.

Ultimately the answer to the OP though is that music will not make one do something outside their own nature, either rationalizes it, or bolsters feelings to do so. Mundane example being a metal genre'd concert. There is a mosh pit where people thrash around, but the majority of people in the crowd are simply sitting listening. It doesn't make people mosh, just people who like to mosh go to them cause its available. Atmosphere and culture play very significant roles when it comes to how music may make some one act.

As for testing sound, its been tested tons, it just doesn't get talked about alot. Usually tests that make their results public deal with sexuality, and human social behaviors though since that tends to be a more sell-able article if information for the average reader.

 

[NightShade]

sometimes a simple beat will have more of an effect than a complex birdcall. so I don't think you can just say that music has more specific reactions than noise because it is more complex.

music will not make one do something outside their own nature

their own nature? what is that supposed to mean??? normally a person would never jump off the big ramp, but as their heart rate rises and they get more adrenaline, they think differently and may make bad decisions. even though they would never normally do that it is still in their own nature?

 

[Jimpy]

their own nature? what is that supposed to mean??? normally a person would never jump off the big ramp, but as their heart rate rises and they get more adrenaline, they think differently and may make bad decisions. even though they would never normally do that it is still in their own nature?

Rationalization of actions VS sublimation I guess.

 

[NightShade]

what?
isn't sublimation (in this context) the transformation of emotion into art instead of outright expressionism through ones body? now I feel stupid.

 

[Jimpy]

Rationalization of actions VS sublimation I guess.

Rationalization would be giving reason to something someone has done. So in the above context, the music does not change how someone acts, but is used by the individual or outside figures as an explanation or rationalization for the action. This within itself could be done to varying levels of influence. The example being that music may urge or push someones emotions to shoot people but does not outright cause shooting.

Sublimation would be the rapid change of state (chemistry reminder that's when something goes from solid to gas, skipping liquidity). In my previously mentioned context, this would be music making someone who is not prone to doing an action to doing said action. This would be the case in which we so far have agreed DOES NOT occur. Example of this influence would be music making people shoot other people.

Though we agree this is not the case, it does not change a non-shooter into a gun crazed maniac. The influence of music is likely only within rationalization of actions.

 

[NightShade]

normally when someone shoots people he (or she) kind of skips the rationalization part.

to me rationalization is a conscious process.
music affect one's unconscious more than one's conscious. it changes emotions. though they affect one's thoughts they normally are not brought up into the forefront. therefore music does not affect rationalization.

also, though music can change one's emotions at the moment. it's most profound change of personality is through prolonged exposure to one type of music. which does not appear to be factored in.

oh, I also have another question, what are we arguing about?

 

[Jimpy]

what are we arguing about?

We're debating specifics of a second question I proposed I guess, since the OP is kind of fail-generic-vague. Overall we seem to agree though with some minor discrepancies. High five.

 

[FireCat]

Give them both the option to kick a cat to be granted early exit from the room/testing

The cat must be kicked if the subject wishes to leave before their contract 3 day stay.

Guarantee the square wave user would kick the cat despite saying they wouldn't do such a thing.

No matter what, I would NOT kick the cat
I would Just cut me out with the cat.. and run away fast I can.

 

[ReVolver]

No matter what, I would NOT kick the cat
I would Just cut me out with the cat.. and run away fast I can.

I've seen people do worst things to a cat(animal) while listening to a square wave... be happy it's only kicking.

 

[FireCat]

I've seen people do worst things to a cat(animal) while listening to a square wave... be happy it's only kicking.

hmm but they could use something else.. than a animal in the test. Seriously!

 

[NightShade]

We're debating specifics of a second question I proposed I guess, since the OP is kind of fail-generic-vague. Overall we seem to agree though with some minor discrepancies. High five.

k, good. (completes my part of the high five)

No matter what, I would NOT kick the cat
I would Just cut me out with the cat.. and run away fast I can.

cut your way out with a cat
animal abuse!!!!

you would kick it, or you would start hallucinating.

 

[FireCat]

Hehehe, no I would take the cat with me.

you would kick it, or you would start hallucinating.

Well, I would not kick any cat. thats for sure!