9/11 - Al Qaeda or the U.S.?

[Rheias]

Please make sure you read and understood the debating rules.

9.11.2001 was one of the most shocking events in the 21st century. It shocked the world and lead to a war.

However, many people say that the suicide attacks which Al Qaeda is held responsible for, were made by the U.S. The question is, who do you think is the responsible? If it is the U.S. why would it do it? If it was Al Qaeda, how could the U.S. allow such thing to happen?

 

[esb]

Hmm... There could be a few explanations, such as Operation Northwoods.

Another could be the US bluffing that they have so much security and power, this would prove them wrong.
Operations and little wars from the US on the Middle East have been going on since the end of WWII, just that people barely realized it now.

 

[Ninva]

The History channel proved that this rumor were false a long time ago. They have evidence to back it up as well, so unless you have evidence that the American government could have done this I'll keep my silence.

 

[esb]

There's also evidence (videos, pictures) that could proof it true. Like the moon landing

If you search on youtube, for 911 conspiracies (or just 911), you will find a few interesting videos.

Do you know the name of the Show in the history channel?

 

[Rheias]

> The History channel proved that this rumor were false a long time ago.

Must I say what is wrong with this arguement?

 

[Ninva]

> The History channel proved that this rumor were false a long time ago.

Must I say what is wrong with this arguement?

I'm not arguing, I'm stating that what evidence they've pointed out is very blunt and clear that there are very few conspires that could be true (dismissing bombs, missiles, etc, the fact that a government official committed suicide is still in question, everything else has been proven false).
Instead of chuckling at my so called ignorance I'd suggest you prove your point instead of bashing my post. This can be considered as flaming/trolling on a good multitude of forums.
This is why I'm against blunt debates on TH.net or any other forum. Now before any one on this thread lights the fuel we just spilled, I suggest someone pull out a video, evidence published by a website, or anything that isn't just a smart comeback comment.

 

[Rheias]

You took my post in the wrong way. I was merely pointing out that saying someone proved so and so doesn't contribute much to the debate, because we have no idea what he was claiming. Further more, the opposite side can say the very same thing, there are many movies out there that "prove" that Al Qaeda isn't responsible for 9.11.

 

[Ninva]

This is the video I told you about. How you obtain it is none of my concern.

http://www.history.com/shows.do?episodeId=240087&action=detail

I find this easier to believe because experts are explaining to you what the damage was and how it didn't add up with the many conspiracies.

 

[esb]

Various explosions are heard, and not just the two airplane crashes.
[YOUTUBE]yIgoXQWiSlM[/YOUTUBE]

The way the Twin Towers demolished, couldn't have been caused by 1 airplane each.
[YOUTUBE]w-0Ms7mId34[/YOUTUBE]

Steel Buildings don't collapse
[YOUTUBE]fxm8lB-V2uI[/YOUTUBE]

Maybe youtube isn't the most reliable, but it is more than just words.


I remain skeptic that Al-Quaeda had anything to do with it, and I rely more that the government was somehow involved.

I'm waiting to be proven wrong.

 

[Ninva]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=A-ddhFrxtB8

Answered all your questions.

 

[DDRtists]

Ninva, watch this please:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501

Wheres the explanation of all the planes that weren't found at the crash locations?

 

[Wiseman_2]

I, personally, find it hard to believe that flying planes into towers designed to withstand such an incident, and causing them to collapse, difficult to believe. What's more, they collapsed vertically, in a manner of a controlled explosion.

Woops, time's up for now, I'll extend this later.

 

[esb]

[YOUTUBE]qJ7c7l4oW0s[/YOUTUBE]

In the video where it shows supposably "windows" blowing because of the air escaping while the building is collapsing, those could have been bombs. Since they're from below, it brings the above down. And why are the "puffs" as the lady described them, waayyy below? Should the "air" be escaping from the nearest exit?

It still could have been wireless bombs, detonating in that order to make you believe that.
IF the falling of the building was natural (normal), what about the videos showing of the airplanes not being commercial airplanes?

Also, let's say the government didn't do it directly, even though operations have suggested they had been willing (Operation Northwoods as mentioned above), they could have known what was going to happen, and let it happen. Why? If someone attacks their country, it would be an "ok" to attack back, therefor claiming more land and territory, a long with its wealth. Except the US probably wasn't expecting what's going on right now.

Also, bush was planning to invade Afghanistan before the 911 attacks. A long with Russia. He announced it 2 days before the 911.

This isn't the first time that the US is attacked, and it leads into a war. The attack of the USS Maine begins the Spanish-American war, the sinking of the cruise ship Lusitania brings the US to WWI, and Pearl Harbor brings it to WWII.

 

[Ninva]

Ninva, watch this please:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501

That's a very interesting video.

 

[DDRtists]

Too many things are wrong, it's hard to believe it wasn't the US to be honest. I don't know, either way it was bad, but I don't see the point in making the videos and stuff.

Just fun to discuss, I guess. The thing I don't understand, is what happened to all the supposed "Passengers" of the planes, if it was the US.

 

[esb]

Good question... did they even find the bodies, or were they incinerated...?

 

[WolSHaman]

Good question... did they even find the bodies, or were they incinerated...?

I'm pretty sure they were incinerated... exploding airplanes tend to do that to people.

 

[New_U.S.]

Heres a thought that must be taken into consideration....

Although three planes hit their targets, one plane did not. It is usually sadly overlooked that a fourth flight was sent to hit somewhere in Washington DC. This plane however was crashed by the passengers. Discovery runs a documentary called 'The Flight that Fought Back'. In this documentary, they go through what happened. From the audio from the flight, you can tell the plane had been hijacked by terrorists. Suicide missions such as this are nothing new. First witnessed by the U.S. in WWII against the Japanesse, the suicide bomber became a effective weapon. More recently this tactic has been highly used by Hezbollah, and then adopted by al Queda. Since Hezbollah is not 'at war' with the U.S., and al Queda is, you can assume that al Queda would be the terrorist group backing this (this is also backed by al Queda taking credit for the attack after the attacks). Westerners do not understand suicide bombings. You are assuming the CIA did this. No person from the U.S. could pull this off psycologically. Concience cannot be ignored. Radical islamic sects could do this because they are fighting 'for God'.

Looking at the fact that the plane was hijacked and would be used as a suicide bomb, and that the likely group to do this would be al Queda, logically you can assume that that plane was hijacked by al Queda operatives to attack some place in Washington. If this is true, then the other planes would be hijacked by al Queda logically.

Now that we have looked at who would logically do this, we must look why to attack.

al Quedas motives are easy to guess. Strike fear into Americans. Do damage on American soil. Kill Americans. Make a statement. Theres a long list of motives for al Queda. However the U.S. governments reasons for doing this are shorter.

This attack would let the U.S. invade Afghanistan, the base of al Queda. This is what the U.S. did. I fail to see the great use of fighting a usless country that had been previously armed by the U.S. If the U.S. felt that al Queda was enough of a threat to take out the Taliban, and they needed a pretext to invade, there are many better options that don't need 3000+ sacrificed American lives. A media flame campaign against them would have worked equally.

The only other motive for the U.S. government being behind this is so they can have better control of the homeland. This better control leads to randomly changing 'terror levels' and bullshit laws like the Patriot Act being passed. These sure got Bush far.

My final question against this is from one of the movies previously posted. It was said that a U.S. hospital was hosting Osama bin Landin just before 9/11. I must say if the U.S. was behind this and they would have known they are going to war against al Queda, why wouldn't they capture him there and a few months later say that they captured him? Makes absolutely no sense.

After all of this you must keep in mind who would do this and motive. These are greater then any tapes. Looking what happened from what happened and using a bit of logic instead of looking at frame by frame and think you see something, you can logically prove that this attack was done by al Queda, not the United States government.

The government is not good. Its made some horrible mistakes. However it is not stupid enough to do this.

Questions, comments, concerns, and your opinions are happily taken.

~New_U.S.

 

[AinurBenAdar]

The government is not good. Its made some horrible mistakes. However it is not stupid enough to do this.

Questions, comments, concerns, and your opinions are happily taken.

~New_U.S.

The government as an acting entity has committed the terror of 9/11, in one form or another, without necessarily doing so.
Now, to clear my statement from mud to glass.

The US goverment, referring to the original question at hand, did not, as an acting body do anything to directly attack the Twin Towers. Meaning, they did not instruct the planes to hit the towers. I do agree, our government isn't that stupid.

However, the very same government is stupid enough, and arrogant enough to that effect, to allow it to happen through inaction as an acting body, once again, referring to the original question.

More clarification is now needed...

The US government, through numerous published reports, has been shown to have, through thorough inaction, allowed 9/11 to take place. The NSA and National Defense department had both recieved reports detail a possible attack on American soil, and both agencies refused to acknowledge such "idiocy" because not since Pearl Habor had such an idea arose, and that act had occured roughly 50 years earlier, from a nation with enough manpower and positioning to do so. The US refused to believe the little men in the desert could do anything to us as an all-powerful, sovereign nation. They believed the US to be too great a country for such a thing to happen.
They became quickly silenced. And decided they were, no off-color pun intended, dead wrong.
And so, the government began to, as quickly as possible, clear up the mistake, with such things as the PATRIOT Act (all caps because it's an acronym), and the 9/11 comission reports. Their end goal was to clean up all mistakes they had made, with the appearance of "immeadiate and effective" action.

Finally....

The US government IS that stupid. Shown historically with such things as D-Day (Doom's Day) invasion, so named because the US thought the plan sure to fail, but continued anyhow. Also with the Great Depression, an avoidable act, that ruined the world's economy for years to come. And, yet again, with the ban on alcoholic beverages, giving rise to such crime bosses as Al Capone.
The final answer is that, given so much power through the years, the government has become corrupt in a sense, and will eventually implode upon it's own power. They've decided what's good for the country on their own basis, and have begun to refuse to listen to the country itself. The US government will fail in it's own idiocy. Maybe not for many years to come, but with such current and historical evidence, which stretches even further than my mere musings could ever reach in any short time, but it will fall. Because of idiot mistakes that cost lives.
In the end...They ARE that stupid.

 

[BlightWarden]

The U.S could have done it to get their defense budget accepted. and use those funds to aid them in their conquest of the middle easts oil. ( 1 theory)

personally i do not want to believe my government is capable of such evil. but i accept it as a possibility. and after the U.S used Hussain as a distraction i felt betrayed by our government. Bin Ladden is the one we need to get, and Hussain may have been able to help us. But if Bin Ladden is under the employ of a secret cabnet of the U.S to cause terror to raise our defense budget without a solid connection to implicate our government so they can have money for god knows what, then how would we ever know?

Hussain may have known things which would explain his quick execution, or he could have been murdered (i call it murder) to distract the citizens from the real threat. I see no progression towards capturing bin ladden at all. seems we are blinded by gas prices.

well i hear my kiddo calling so i must go. will check back later.