Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 Dota Style Call

[HS-Avatar]

hello all, im a big fan of dota, i like the general idea and play of it, and i also like hero wars, but D&D is a fetish hobby i really enjoy, i always thought, only if i could use some dnd characters in a dota game! so im making my own, as much as i like how they did their map, i made some changes with mine, for 1 thing its a city based map, using the city tileset, and its a 256x256 map! so lots of secrets and many new things will be included, such as
DND styled items with dota styled combinations.
New creeps, upgradeable creeps, and hireable creeps
new custom spells and abilities
it will also bring the features of dota, sm-ap-dm-ar- and others im unfimiliar with. including new modes and a 1 player solo version so you can practice against a very hard comp using 2 heros against your 1,

heres the point of the post now that the background is known,
i would like your help in making this map, i use 3.5 core rule books to draw apon. my collection is limited, if you also play 3.5 dnd feel free to drop info for me, this will be the thread i will keep for all my dnd info on my map.
right now im going through and creating items, i could use some help on what you would like to see in the game.
the merchants will be numerous, with a combiner of 5 items at once, max, in dota you normally use 2-3 items per combo, then use those items for better combos, that will be included in my game, im trying to find a way to allow level gain up to lv99, saving lv 100 for special monsters, it will be a huge map with tons to do, so if you play 3.5 and have current core rule books, plz add info.
the books i have are as follows.
players handbook1,dungeonmaster guide1,tomb of magic,book of vile darkness,
expanded psionics handbook,magic of incarnum,lords of madness,manual of the planes,epic level handbook, spell compendium,deities and demi gods, draconomicon,monster manual1,monster manual2,monster manual3,fiend folio
tyvm for all the help guys

ps: i will be working on a DragonLance,Ravenloft,DarkSun,ForgottenRealms, and other maps for the fans of dota, also working on the complete DragonLance storyline,for an rpg campaign, will include over 60 maps! :nuts:

 

[KeeperofKeys]

You don't shirk work, do you?

A couple things that I would like to see in a D&D DOTA would be:

Items:
Elminster's hat
Drizzt's Scimitars
Aegis Fang
(I forget who's) Tiny Fortress
Cuthbert's mace
Vecna's hand and eye
Wand of Magic missle

Abilities:
Rogue theiving
Druid shapechange
Cleric's turn undead
Beholder's anti-magic cone
Item crafting (make it combining components)

Other stuff:
BALANCE (essential)
Custom skins (not essential)
Interesting new game modes (I don't know... add in a relic or something)

I hope these suggestions help. Don't let this project die out, it sounds great!
When you are finished, I would LOVE to help test it.

 

[HS-Avatar]

ty for reply, ill be making a demo version of the map and will release it to the sites whom accept it.

ill be posting almost all my trigger questions while i build so that i can(hopefully) release a bug free version from the get go

some of the exsample characters ill have naming only 4.

*SpinemeldWarrior=using incarnum to shape soulmeld magical items making him a powerful melee warrior and anti caster

*IllithidSlayer=Psionic warrior specializing in combat against illithid mindbenders, a anti psionic psionicist

*Demonologist= opening a GateSpell to summon demons from the abyss,will also use demon affinity

*WarForged= created for war,granted sentient intelligence, the warforge using firepower,and transformation to gain victory.

those are 4 exsamples of whats instore in my map. i like dota, and i like dnd, so im merging the two,

right now im listing my units,spells and items from my core books,

not sure how balanced it will be, both sides will have very powerful heroes, but im going to keep it as close to 3.5 rules as i can,

as for usable heroes, im including almost all the classes from my core books
not sure what neutral monsters there will be yet, but my neutral monsters will all drop something, global events will be included in the game, global events effect all players in the game, and team events will effect only 1 force, sample would be mass cure serious wounds, all allies of caster heal ## hit points, or storm of vengence, all players take 500 dmg, are slowed and blinded for ## seconds, timestop is a global effect

the map itself will have event zones, when you pass into an event zone something will happen, either good or bad, depending on what alliance your in and what zone your in. also the monsters you can fight as neutral creeps will respawn after a short time, and after they die a certain number of times they "evolve" gainning levels and abilities to keep the CR (challenge rating) up so that players will find it gets harder and harder to kill them.
remember that the max level for a hero will be 99
the max level for a monster will be 100
so it can become hard

you will also beable to "hire" mercenary groups, military armies, and other companions,henchmen,followers

it will also include -gd=GodMode, the gods themselves will aid in the battles and some of the most powerful spells in the game will be unleashed! :nuts:

ps: i have no idea what skirting work means?

if it means stealing ideas, i hope i dont, im trying to do alot of things differantly, but keeping some the same, dota is a wonderful map styles and the action is perfect. if anything i would hope the people who created dota would encourage this, im not trying to put out crap copies of dota, 6.32b is a must have! but at the same time, i would like to have an all dnd theme dota game, the guys at dota used some dnd names along with alot of other stuff all mixed up, thats cool i like, but id like to have 1 theme per map. 3.5 core rules, then setting maps, elminster as you mentioned is forgotten realms, he wont show up til my FR map, same with DragonLances raistlin and others, the first map im making is only the core rules, no setting as from maybe greyhawk.
it will be both my learning map and a great alternative for dota players.
i will be making setting maps, so one day you can play the heroes of the hall(drizzt ect) and elminster and all that love

 

[KeeperofKeys]

Slow down, Bronco! There's lots of road to cover still!

ps: i have no idea what skirting work means?

No worries, HS. To "shirk work" (spelled exactly like that) is to avoid work, so if you are NOT shirking work, then you are working hard. This would DEFINITELY define you, Mr. Mapmaker. Not just D&D, but the DragonLance stuff TOO? How much spare time do you HAVE?

Anyway, getting back on topic, I would suggest that you keep the specialized classes (Eg. Illithid Slayer) to a minimum. Prestige classes are fine, but don't get TOO in-depth here. Start simple and small, work up to big and complicated. I think that the same advice applies to your many ideas for gameplay. Be careful with those total-map spells. Those triggers could get complicated. That, the event zones, and the evolving creeps sounds very complicated for a first attempt. Be sure to get the mechanics working (the core gameplay) down before adding in those extras. Better to have a map and no extras than extras and no map.

I am glad to note that you have good plans for the future though. I like that God mode option, and a new version for various themes also sounds like a good idea (Just be sure to make a version about the Icewind Dale people, like Drizzt and Wulfgar. I WANT IT!). Keep posting here, and hopefully we will get it working exactly how you want it (in the long run, at least ).

All in all, HS-Avatar, keep it going. This project sounds like a LOT of fun for everyone, especially D&D enthusiasts.

Quote of the day: "It's not easy being greeeennnn..."
-A Grunt

 

[HS-Avatar]

ok, about shirk work, i dont know if i do that? i have always worked on dnd maps from starcraft,age of empire2 and other games,

the only thing i need help with is to understand the world editor info, im not a programmer in the least, im just a fan who would like to bring something to the community, so if Shirking work means, descripting the effect i want and asking for the trigger info, then yea i guess i am a shirker,

the map styles for alot of my maps will be in the dota formate, dota is the best type of wc3tft map iv played. and it includes the names of some dnd stuff, like sven serving paladine! dota to me, is the "cross-Over game" like in comics when a marvel character fights or works with a DC character, its nice but after awhile you want the real thing.

on the question how much time i have, im injured and out of work, so all i have is time.

games i will be making and am making are as follows
3.5 Dungeons and Dragons Dota style
3.5 DragonLance Dota Style
3.5 DragonLance RPG's 1per novel!
2e DarkSun(all i have) Footies style
Diablo2 LoD Dota Style
Diablo2 LoD Arena Style
3.5 Forgotten Realms Dota Style
3.5 Forgotten Realms RPG 1map per saga
Ultimate RumbleArena( over 500 heros to choose from) best of videogame characters
Gauntlet SevenSorrows Floodwar(heros fight endless waves of heros)
StarWars Epic Saga (after the return of the jedi)=luke cleaning up the remaining empire!
Conkers Bad Fur Day battle arena
Magic the gathering vs Yugioh (golems style)

those r just a few of the many maps iv been working on.
but my current project is 3.5 core rules dnd.
i estimate it taking about 1-2 months per map, slow work cus i want it perfect. nothing but the best for gamers!

ps- the dota style games will have a function, if a player leaves, you get the gold divided like normal, but the hero doesnt respawn, the game totals up the value of the items the hero has and divides that up to other players, automaticly. no more fighting for items, or having to sell them.

the global spells will be the last thing i add in, only a few things will trigger global events, the gods, and 3 neutral bosses, and a few secrets.

. also working on a way to make it, if someone uses a word, lets say a curse word, like the Big F U, they would lose gold and die. that will stop rude players from taking their frustration out on those who play for fun, not just to win. there will also be a vote system for kicking players who are rude or abusive, not for being bad at the game.

i think warcraft3 dota is getting a very very bad rap, alot of players are rude, and abuse their ability for banning. not all, but alot. i would like to bring back the group play with fun being the objective, not being the best.

im working on 10 heros for each side right now, and the first 4 stages of creeps, and a few item combos for the demo. what it will include, im not sure on that yet. i will be needing help with triggers for a time, but once i pick up on how to do it all ill be making alot of new maps for play.

ps: on starcraft i created something called a dm game. the dm is the foe, and 4 players try and defeat him before they die. the dm's heros have a count down timer til they attack, all the players had to do to win is destroy the GuildHall of the dm. from that, the game Destroy the Nexus was born and then many other versions of the game. i have no proof of this, never cared for any, but i got good at making maps on other rts games, so i think once i get the hang of the "trigger functions" ill suprise alot of doubters,

2nd ps: no im not trying to release more generic versions of dota.i want them to be as good if not better(no offense dota crew i love dota!) and make it a bit differant than the canon stuff thats out now.

tyvm for taking the time to read this and any replies are great replies. :nuts:

 

[uberfoop]

yeah right you'll make a 60 mission campaign. If it's any good, you'll be spending the next couple years on it and nothing else.

By the way, that estimated 1-2 months per map by no means means the map is gunna be perfect. In fact, that short a time period 90% of the time results in crap maps that people flame. If youre so interested in dota (by the way, for all i care icefrog can be stabbed to death by purple elephants with sporks and cuban cigars thx to him and Guinsoo for ruining wc3 custom games), maybe youd be interested in the fact that where dota is today, still being developed, it was started even before TFT came out. DotA's history, if you didn't know, is such:



The very first map of the 'aos' genre was called 'AoS' or Aeon of Strife. Thoguh there are newer versions now played on starcraft, the original came out long before warcraft 3 ROC. A mapmaker called Karukef claims to have started the aos fad in warcraft 3 with his early RIC map, valley of dissent. He has recently started a 'sequal' called valley of dessent 2, which can be found here: http://vod.cakefish.com/Forum/index.php
Anyway, After the original valley of dissent, Eul created the first Defense of the Ancients. Originaly, it was no outstanding map. Its concept was much after Valley fo Dissent, and people played it the same way they play footies-not overdone, just a normal popular map. Anyway, warcraft 3 TFT came out. Eul made a TFT beta version, which, during testing, was stolen by Guinsoo, who changed the name to DotA-Allstars. Guinsoo edited some stuff and got the map reasonably popular with nubs who couldn't win any other gametype. Then, the map was stolen again by icefrog, who is the master idea stealer and non-credit-giver (if you dont beleive me just look through it. Yeah right icefrog triggered tiny's throw ability. I bet he couldnt even make a smooth-running triangle jump. And, ive seen proof of stolen models and such. The sheild model for that dk hero was a model made by edwardswolentoe and posted on wc3sear.ch, no credit was given anywhere). Anyway, Icefrog led the map to be the noobswearingflaminglilkidfest it is today and got so many no-microers to play it that many other, acualy fun, custom maps like Tides of Blood were all but exterminated. The end.






sry if that post was offensive, but im sayin, theres no way yer gunna pump all that out. Like, that map you say yer gunna have over 500 heroes to choose from? Map filesize would be WAY too big, not to mention that it would take about 3 years just to make all the heroes, even if you didnt have very many triggered abilities. I dont mean to make you feel stupid, but to do everythign on that list, and make it good, is gunna take over 10 years. Unless im wrong and you acualy have like 15 hours of free time every day?

 

[KeeperofKeys]

I would have to agree with uberfoop there, HS. Set your sights on doing a good job on this D&D DOTA, and don't rush on to your new projects. If you are truly interested in making a D&D DOTA, then be prepared to spend some serious time on it and it alone.
Also please note that if you put in a voting option to kick people, then it WILL be abused to kick bad people or unpopular people, rather than abusers. And about that bad language penalty thing... if you don't pull it off then it's a lot of wasted effort. If you DO pull it off you will have a LOT of REALLY TICKED people looking to chew you out (and not very politely I'm guessing). My advice is to not even bother with it. People will get really mad, find ways around it, break into your map and change it, or simply avoid the map altogether. It's a good idea, but people are people are people, and they will not change for you, I'm afraid. Mores the pity...
By the way, whats with the :nuts: at the end of your post? Are you subtly insulting us or something?

 

[HS-Avatar]

i know it will take time, i work on 1-2 maps at a time on and off, alot of my units and some items are in the finishing stages for all the dnd stuff, reworking what i made in RoC, id say aside from the triggers, any map i work on could take a max (to release) of 1-2 months, then other versions will follow, dealing with the bugs(hoping to not have any) as to the hero selection of 500 units, i dont know what the max is cause im still learning, if it cant be 500, ill use whatever the max is for that map when i get to it.

the campaign maps will come slow, id say 1 every 3 months, cause i do have other stuff to do, so yes it will be about 3-4 years til all my maps are released, and even longer for future projects. iv had alot of xp at map making from alot of rts maps, wc3 offers an awesome editor, i just have to get used to the functions then its all good.

im not really looking to make "popular" maps, those maps bring in ALL types of players, polite and rude, i plan to allow public downloads of my maps, but for the most part ill be hosting the maps to a select few, and they can learn and host others.
i understand that dota pretty much consists of 90% of the customs i see, and alot of the time, the players are...crude. but im not making maps for them
im making maps for people who want to have a fun game with friends that is easy to learn to play, playTime should be about 45-1hour but can go on longer, and mainly for dnd fans. also it allows me to learn to do something new. the main game styles iv played have been limited, TD( not for me)
Footman wars (can be fun) Hero Wars (my 2nd fav) Dota(#1 on my list)

but the real resone im making these maps, is so I can play them, others who share my interests and like my map will play also, and those who dont wont to, dont have to.

The Dungeons and Dragons Dota Style will be my main project til it is finished.
i never do rush work, i take my time so that it works correctly, and i ask how to make it work correctly, from people who have been at this longer than i, and who are better at it than i will ever be. i dont have time to research who made what map, and the history of each version,

i thank you for your comments , it will help me in the longrun. but at the same time. anyone who plays 3.5 dnd or even 2e will like or even love my maps. i will work that hard to make them perfect, nothing but the best for our community.

PS= i encourage everyone to make their own maps and to invent new map and game types. map stealing isnt right, all my maps are manually made, i dont mod others maps, i make my own. i will work hard to release the demo with small samples of everything the game will have.

PS2= for the campaign, there are more than 160 novels, most i have not read yet. i will be working on them and will continue to release them over time, as long as wc3 is free to play on line, i will make and play! D2LoD veteran 5yrs
BroodWar veteran 8 years+

PS3= this :nuts: represents your outlook at me and my ideas, im nuts, to think i can actually do what i said. ye have little faith my son i wouldnt insult anyone, we are all gamers, its because of other people that online games are fun to play, so the goal is to be friendly and polite, and allow people their opinion about whatever. and i respect people who speak straight and not suger coat stuff. its a game, if it sucks, i want to know why and how i can fix it. like anyone would. ty

 

[uberfoop]

alot of my units and some items are in the finishing stages for all the dnd stuff, reworking what i made in RoC, id say aside from the triggers, any map i work on could take a max (to release) of 1-2 months

The thing is, triggers in good maps take longer then everything else added together.

Also your math is a bit off. You say youll have 1 campgin map out every 3 months, but 60 of them, and you say everythign will be done in 3-4 years. Well, with a map rate of that, your campaign wont be done for 15 years, which will be 2021.
Just had to point that out

PS3= this represents your outlook at me and my ideas, im nuts, to think i can actually do what i said. ye have little faith my son

tee hee, you trying to do the impossible now? Then do THIS:
http://ducain.org/hihforum/showthread.php?t=389
Yeah, jk, attempting that would add a few years to how long it would take to get those maps out


anyway, gl hf dd ds
Kick DotA's butt. Remember to hook most of the custom game players if you're trying to hit it big! And if you're really in on making a popular, map, trigger like every ability! And then, to make it even better, learn jass and convert it all to text and optimize it! Don't forget to kill the memory leaks!
And don't put DotA in the map's name or you'll be stabbed in the night by purple elephants with cuban cigars and sporks!


edit: btw nice amount of time to stick w/ broodwar. Did you ever get any major popular maps out on it?

 

[KeeperofKeys]

Well I'm glad to hear that you are firmly grounded in reality. My only advice for now is to make sure to take time on your map to ensure the polish looks right, Eg. no missing ability tabs, no misspelled words, no pathing/sound/graphic/game bugs, and all that stuff. Your map sounds great, just don't get cocky. Please be sure to do the job well.

I like your attitude about who you are making the games for. Keep that in place. I just think that you don't need to set out with the ideal of making people who play your games nicer all-round. That's a little much wishful thinking. My advice here is to make sure that your "friendly features" are not abusable features. If your map has even a remote chance of becoming popular, then you should think twice about including a kick function. That could be used for booting opposing team members for an advantage, booting team members for "sucking", ect. What I would REALLY like to see in a DOTA is balancing when a teammate leaves. Since leavers ruin so many DOTA games as things already are, perhaps this imbalance should be redressed by giving the smaller team a large advantage of some sort. If you do decide to do this, then remember make it useful in duels, because that is almost always the deciding factor in DOTA. I would reccomend using gold bonuses, like you thought you might do. Hopefully the boost in buying power will compensate for the lack of numerical might.

As for the nuts thing, I did not think that you were nuts. EVER. I think that you are being very ambitious and perhaps a little foolhardy, but "nuts" is a whole different category.

Last thing... if you can call me "son", I get to call YOU "Young Padawan". Fair's fair.

-Quote of the day: "*ring ring* Hello? Augh, for the last time, I'm a DREADLORD, NOT a DRUGLORD!."
-An irate Dreadlord (with cell phone)

 

[HS-Avatar]

lol, its all good (polishes mini lightsabre)

alot of the stuff has been in the works since RoC, i remember some of the first dota games, and began moding the map styles and tile sets for rpgs and other hero war types. as to the triggers, they will get done very fast IF i post the questions here and get help with them. if i dont get help with the triggers it might take me some time to figure all the functions and combo functions, with help i could finish the triggers to my map in a single day, then save those and use with some modding for all my other maps, like i do with basic heros and items and abilities.

again, im not looking for the everyday gamer for my maps, dungeons and dragon fans and personal clan members will be the main peoples i will bring in.
im mainly making maps that i can play solo, but all my maps will have a multi player version , i will not have custom skins or models in any of my maps. i dont have the photoshop program and not willing to buy it just for wc3 map making, there are plenty of standard units that will work fine. if anyone else can make custom skins and models, let me know and once im finished with my map, we can see how we could work it in.
as to credit, anyone who helps me on a map gets a mention somewhere in the game.

as to the balancing of units/resources, when a player leaves, his/her hero will not respawn, the items the hero was using will be considered sold, and the total resources will be split up equally to all players. something my map may include is a permentant repick, so if your failing with 1 hero you can choose another, comming into play at the same level with all items previous hero had.
and placing the old hero back on the selection screen.

my game will also have some text msgs from vendors and a few fightable beings. to add a small rp feel, and ofcoures xp drain spell, boy will that be a favorite or what, jp; lmao. well anyways, i thank you for being honest and all, even tho its a bit frustrating it is what i need to make my map perfect.

ps= as to what maps on starcraft brood wars you may of played that i started. you wont, 99% of my maps were all clan only, and my 1 public map
a DM game called BattleMasters was stolen and soon Destroy the Nexus was born, i soon stopped playing sc, im to old to listen to little kids curse at each other. and the BS maps, lol, note to playing unknown melee maps. always play terran, so you can lift off and move to where the Real resources are.

Current State of things: wife is on 6 day vacation, i have about 14 console games iv been ignoring, so ill be spending this time on my xbox and ps2, but once shes back ill get back to making this map. i am still adding alittle here and there when i get the impulse, but i wanna pee on some firedemons and roll pooballs off dunghill (conkers Live and Reloaded bad fur day) AWESOME!
screaming cheese beggin for its life, funniest thing iv ever seen. the farting rat is also great and the cow with the runs, LMFAO!

PS2= just got advent children 2days ago, omg! a must see for all ff fans!

PS3= the map with all the heros 500 or max possible is based on characters from console games, tekken,streetfighter,virtua fighter,mortalkombat,soulcalibur,and other console chars to choose from, its my im bored and want to F around map.

PS4= :nuts: couldnt resist

 

[KeeperofKeys]

All looks well, Young Padawan. Keep us updated on your map progress.

-"The Force is strong with this one."
-Darth Vader

 

[HS-Avatar]

finalizing the hero/item units. abilities are next, the terrain is nearly at 100% detail.

added monster spawn chains. after you kill certain neutral creatures, it spawns new and more powerful creatures in other parts of the map.
Final Spawn Creature is Level 100. very very powerful.

will be adding models and skins later on with the aid of a Friend. will be included after everything else is done.

would be doing more, but iv been working on my guildwars and Lod, and working on 17 xbox and ps2 games. but ill keep at it and update on my work.

PS. characters will beable to gain godhood in the game if they are skilled enough.(lots of practice to become a god)

Divine Rituals allow the aid of the heroes Deity!

Hero TeamWork Tactics are a huge part in the game, sample. all spellcasters could be very good or very bad depending on if the foe has countercasting or a silence spell. items can aid or hinder the characters.

there are also event regions( secret and hard to find) where a character may heal and gain max mana or lose an item or lose all but 1 hp, and many others.