ABC examples?

[chovynz]

Are there any examples of ABC usage floating around TH? Search does not display any results for "ABC"; and "structs" bring in different results than what I'm looking for.

 

[Cohadar]

Well I have seen at least 3-4 spells around here that use ABC,
but no there are no dedicated examples except that in ABC demo map.
(and the one I am making right now, that mines I promised..)

 

[Doom-Angel]

can you guys explain what's ABC?

 

[Romek]

can you guys explain what's ABC?

Was just going to say that...
Maybe we shouldn't be posting if we don't know

 

[Cohadar]

My biggest problem on this forum is that I don't have signature...:banghead:

ABC

I posted that spell I promised btw.. Scarab Mines

 

[TheDamien]

can you guys explain what's ABC?

ABC is a rather large, inflexible yet fast attachment system for attaching integer values to timers, triggers or dialogs. It is slightly faster than gamecache yet slightly slower than its main rival, HSAS.

Gamecache Natives

Flexibility - Greatest
Speed - Decent
Cohadar Attack Index - Very High

HSAS

Flexibility - Decent
Speed - Fastest
Cohadar Attack Index - High

ABC

Flexibility - Low
Speed - Fast
Cohadar Attack Index - Low

As you can see, HSAS is greatest for speed, Gamecache is greatest for flexibility and ABC is greatest if you don't wish to be attacked by Cohadar.

 

[Cohadar]

loooool, that was ... true.

Just some add-ons:

ABC is a rather large, inflexible yet fast attachment system for attaching integer values to timers, triggers or dialogs. It is slightly faster than gamecache yet slightly slower than its main rival, HSAS.

By slightly faster than gamecache it means 3 times
and by slightly slower than HSAS it means 10%

But still ABC cannot be pwned.
There must be some strange reasons for that....

Gamecache Natives
Time to learn - Longest
Chance to make errors - 60%

HSAS
Time to learn - Short
Chance to make errors - 40%

ABC
Time to learn - 5 sec?
Chance to make errors - 0%

Historical curiosities:
HSAS was slower than ABC until I helped PandaMine optimize it.
PandaMine's speed tests helped me fix error in ABC.

EDIT:
Never underestimate Cohadar attack index.

 

[Rheias]

Just Read the READ ME above ABC's code, it should tell you about everything, as for seeing an example, as suggested aboce, check the spell forums, most decent Jass spells use ABC.

By the way, any chance someone could link HSAS?

 

[Cohadar]

HSAS

 

[Doom-Angel]

k lol...
thanks for the explanation
just one more question:
do i need to know vJASS for all these?

 

[Cohadar]

no.

 

[Doom-Angel]

so the simple jass knowledge will help me understand it easily?
btw what about kattena's handle var system?
isn't it the same thing as those other systems you have put up?

 

[Cohadar]

No it is not.
kattana's system was the first attaching system invented,
it is oldest and most dangerous to use.
I don't think anyone is using that these days.
There is a newer version of kattana's called Local Handle Vars that is a little better.

 

[Doom-Angel]

and all these systems are used to pass argumants from function to function without any use of global right?
so they are basically used for spells and such?

 

[Cohadar]

Yes. (HSAS and ABC are using globals internally)

 

[Doom-Angel]

internally?
care to explain?

 

[Cohadar]

What is there to explain, instead of you needing to declare global arrays and algorithms around them to pass data ABC and HSAS do that for you inside their functions.

If you used globals directly you would have to write all that code yourself.
The advantage of using globals arrays directly is that it needs only one timer,
but you cannot use it for triggers and other stuff.

There are also systems like this one I use for physics engine.

My advice: stick to the ABC for now, it is simplest one to use/understand.

 

[Doom-Angel]

k i see thanks

 

[emjlr3]

loooool, that was ... true.

Just some add-ons:

By slightly faster than gamecache it means 3 times
and by slightly slower than HSAS it means 10%

But still ABC cannot be pwned.
There must be some strange reasons for that....

Gamecache Natives
Time to learn - Longest
Chance to make errors - 60%

HSAS
Time to learn - Short
Chance to make errors - 40%

ABC
Time to learn - 5 sec?
Chance to make errors - 0%

Historical curiosities:
HSAS was slower than ABC until I helped PandaMine optimize it.
PandaMine's speed tests helped me fix error in ABC.

EDIT:
Never underestimate Cohadar attack index.

and I think CSData variants are yet still faster and quite easier to learn and use
though there isn't hundreds of lines of code to tell you your botch your spell, but then if you do that, you deserve to have to delve into your code, figure out what you did, and learn from it

No it is not.
kattana's system was the first attaching system invented,
it is oldest and most dangerous to use.
I don't think anyone is using that these days.
There is a newer version of kattana's called Local Handle Vars that is a little better.

I still use tables, for those few and far between spells that still need it, and could only be done using PUI

 

[Cohadar]

and I think CSData variants are yet still faster and quite easier to learn and use
though there isn't hundreds of lines of code to tell you your botch your spell, but then if you do that, you deserve to have to delve into your code, figure out what you did, and learn from it

No they are not easier to use, you just already know CSData so you have wrong impression.

And I also disagree with your second statement witch can be translated like this:
If you use this "hard core pro" CSData variants and you are a noob you will most probably have errors, and you deserve to debug them because you are a noob and you should learn to use them better so you don't be a noob.

Not to mention that most of the errors that are cosed by attaching are absolutely non-intuitive and will take days of debugging if you don't know what are you doing.

I prefer not to debug for errors, and I like when ABC tells me stuff like:
"hay you forgot to clear this in hash A" or "hay that request in B returned zero you are doing something wrong".

I still use tables, for those few and far between spells that still need it, and could only be done using PUI

Your personal preference and habit.