Evolution

[Bronxernijn]

That is what new means. All cells come from pre-existing cells. Species are merely genetic mutations of each other.

No I rather mean the developing of a new trait or organ, which would be visible in a group of cells that dont have a function that weren't in the species before. Modification of existing traits and organs can never lead to new traits and organs (correct me if I'm wrong and explain why).

 

[Kershbob]

No I rather mean the developing of a new trait or organ, which would be visible in a group of cells that dont have a function that weren't in the species before. Modification of existing traits and organs can never lead to new traits and organs (correct me if I'm wrong and explain why).

This is wrong. Citrate digesting enzymes have been observed to have evolved in bacteria over a long time in vitro in an environment which favors them (it was recent and the experiment started before I was born). Out of interest this was in a model species which has the inability to metabolise citrate as one of it's difinitive characteristics.

Modification of existing traits and organs can lead to new traits and organs; but only if you, for example, believe lungs are different from swim bladders and wings are different from fingers etc.

Another example of this is parts of an organism changing only slightly but making a huge difference, for example there is a fungus that grows in Chernobyl (sp? uni doesn't have firefox) which uses melanin as a source of energy, much like cholorophil is used in plants, except it is excited by gamma radiation waves instead of visibile light.

 

[thewrongvine]

If there was evolution, then soon we'd be like in this lame movie I saw where in the future where it sped up evolution, we (humans) become fish people that were greenish-blueish with gills and the whole world was underwater.

IDK, I just like to refer to movies.

@Dr.Jack, sent you a PM.

~Hai-Bye-Vine~

 

[Razalgrim]

I say that the universe turned out too imperfectly for there to have been a benevolent creator. But I suppose this is off topic.

Perfection cannot be attained. Anything perfect will lose the ability to improve. So then it will have a flaw, causing it to be imperfect.

I do believe in evolution - not Darwin's Theory of Evolution (or at least not most of it), but the "fact" that all living organisms are changing. Yes, I do believe in God, and by no means are my two beliefs contradictory. There are hundreds of races in this earth today, but the Bible says it all began with two people. How did that happen? Evolution. Though it is still a theory, and science has been disproved hundreds of times in the past.

Remember Aristotle?

 

[NoxMortus]

Evolution. Though it is still a theory, and science has been disproved hundreds of times in the past.

Evolution is not a theory. It is a fact.

Darwin's natural selection is a scientific theory that explains the FACT of Evolution.

Science being open to further evidence and disproof is what makes it so reliable - It doesn't hold on to a certain belief on faith when the evidence shows otherwise. People like to point this out as a weakness, when it is, in fact, a great strength.

 

[Bronxernijn]

Evolution is not a theory. It is a fact.

It is a theory, but still a very persistent one.

There is only one way to find out if the evolution theory is true, which is to travel back in time and see what really happened. According to science, that is impossible.

 

[NoxMortus]

It really is a fact. Even during our short time on Earth, us humans have observed speciation. Evolution happens. It is a FACT.

Do you brush off Gravity as 'Just a theory' because Newton & Einstein explained it with a scientific theory?

 

[TheDamien]

It is a theory, but still a very persistent one.

There is nothing stopping a theory from being factual.

Yes, I do believe in God, and by no means are my two beliefs contradictory.

Theism has never been incompatible with science or evolution. It is the religious dogma that often accompanies it that is incompatible.

There are hundreds of races in this earth today, but the Bible says it all began with two people. How did that happen?

It didn't.

Genetic analysis has ruled out the possibility of such a small population bottleneck in human history. Even if this wasn't the case, the tiny human population would rapidly succumb to the negative effects of prolonged inbreeding.

Evolution. Though it is still a theory

Evolution is almost universally accepted among biologists and within the scientific community in general. It is strongly supported by the evidence, and evolutionary principles continue to be validated by new discoveries. Evolution is a coherent model for explaining some part of the natural world, and that is basically what a scientific theory is. It isn't some sort of transitional stage between hypothesis and fact.

You might as well say that the theory of relativity is "just a theory" or that germ theory is "just a theory."

... science has been disproved hundreds of times in the past.

Scientific ideas compete with and sometimes replace each other as discoveries are made and evidence becomes available. The theory of evolution is no exception to this process, but the basic principles have remained the same since Darwin's time and evidence for evolution is even more compelling now than it was then. The probability that evolution will be disproved or replaced in the future is roughly 0.

 

[Varine]

Why does no one else seem to think Adam and Eve is a metaphorical idealism? Even if it isn't, if you believe God and Evolution go hand in hand and that God is God, I'm sure you can figure it out.

 

[thewrongvine]

There are hundreds of races in this earth today, but the Bible says it all began with two people.

Well, Adam and Eve were the FIRST to come. Others were created at other times.

And we can't really have a debate about this if we don't have a common-agreed definition of evolution, and not just some dictionary one.

~Hai-Bye-Vine~

 

[emjlr3]

change in allele frequency over time

 

[Bronxernijn]

There is nothing stopping a theory from being factual.

What's your point? A theory not being a fact does not make a theory not factual. Besides, I did not mean persistent in a negative way here.

 

[New_U.S.]

Wow. Can't believe this debates still going on. Yes, evolution is real. It can be proven (logically) to be real if you think though it.

First, think of evolution as just the combination of all the events of natural selection over time. Natural selection is real and can be seen in every day situations.

Bacteria are the easiest thing to see this with. Say you have an ear infection, you will be given antibiotics to clear it up. The bottle says to take the antibiotic ear drops twice a day, every day, for a week. You decided to do it once a day, every other day. You find after a few days that the antibiotics are not working. This is because of natural selection of the bacteria. Bacteria reproduce at a rapid rate, so there is more chance of a change in one of the bacteria's DNA. That change let that one bacteria be resistant to the antibiotic. Now its surviving, and the bacteria created from that bacteria are also protected. Nice! Now you need a stronger antibiotic.

There's natural selection. Every organism does it, and after x number of selections, when the organism has changed enough, we say that it has evolved. Woo....

This doesn't disprove God's existence. Personally I don't think all the Bible should be read literally. God and evolution can coexist (and they do).

 

[Kershbob]

I always type something like this up and never get a response. But I will persist.

Please just name the stage at which you think there is a problem and explain why using evidence:

1) Organisms produce more offspring than can survive
2) Populations of organisms spread out over time creating fringe populations
3) The environment where these fringe poulations exist is can be different from the central location of the population.
4) Genetic frequency changes over time due to random mutation, crossing over, outside sources etc
5) New phenotypes can arise from new genotypes
6) New phenotypes can lead to a reproductive advantage
7) Traits which are beneficial to reproductive chances are passed on through generations at a higher rate than traits that aren't
8) This process would eventually cause speciation due to progressive fringe popultions being unable to mate with the original central population due to phenotype changes or physical distance/location issues

Seriously just try.

 

[Azlier]

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Good enough for me. Should I have to read further?

 

[Seb!]

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Good enough for me. Should I have to read further?

AAH! :banghead:

That should never be an argument. Plus, that doesn't even say how He created it. It's open to interpretation, much like the rest of the Bible. But that's irrelevant. The point is, that if science can basically prove something then you must back up dissent with pretty groundbreaking evidence. What can you say to disprove the evidence of evolution?

 

[Azlier]

He spoke things into existence.

And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind.

Birds, fishes. No land animals yet.

Next 'day'.

And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its own kind." And it was so.

 

[Seb!]

He spoke things into existence.

And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind.

Birds, fishes. No land animals yet.

Next 'day'.

And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its own kind." And it was so.

Science has disproved this. Plus, you're not supposed to take it literally..

Leviticus 20:9

If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.

I Peter 2:18

Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

There are also many scientific errors in said text. Come on, people, it's a bunch of stories that help you become a better person. Taking it too literally and promoting this ignorance with absolutely no scientific proof just impedes progress.

 

[Azlier]

>Science has disproved this.
How so?


No scientific proof? The Bible is both historically and medically accurate. What other holy books are? Where are these mystical scientific errors?

You can breed two dogs, get a new dog breed. It's still a dog. I have yet to see a cat dog. Or a fish dog. Or a frog cat. Animals reproduce according to their own kinds.

 

[Seb!]

>Science has disproved this.
How so?

Read a biology text book. First, there were prokaryotic bacteria-like organisms. Blue-green algae soon followed. Oxygen generation occurred over millions of years and accumulated in the atmosphere, allowing for said organisms to further develop organelles in the cell. Over a long period of time, mutations occurred that have resulted in the creation of our modern species. Talk to any scientist.

No scientific proof? The Bible is both historically and medically accurate. What other holy books are? Where are these mystical scientific errors?

Ooh, this will be fun.

Deuteronomy 14:6-7 You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud. However, of those that chew the cud or that have a split hoof completely divided you may not eat the camel, the rabbit, or the coney.

Rabbits don't chew cud..

1 Kings 7:23 He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim . . . It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it.

Pi does not equal 3..

Psalms 104:5 He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.

The earth is on nothing and it does move. Around the sun. Also, the sun was claimed to be made after the earth (impossible), revelations makes it clear that stars are tiny objects that will fall down when Jesus gets back, and God seems to have some problems with the anatomy of bugs.

You can breed two dogs, get a new dog breed. It's still a dog. I have yet to see a cat dog. Or a fish dog. Or a frog cat. Animals reproduce according to their own kind.

Donkeys breed with horses to make mules.. countless other examples but I can't see how this is relevant. Animals have evolved by reinforced beneficial mutations in DNA.