RPG ideas

[WildTurkey]

hello all;
I am currently in the process of making an extremelly large Role Playing Game (RPG) and i want your help.
i want to know what you people look for in a role playing game.
is it sounds? items? story lines?
not only do i want to know what you look for, i want to hear your ideas and i will post back saying what i think of them. (dont worry about criticism, i am not that sort of person)
also; if you need some help with a role playing game or any other sort of map you may be working on i should be able to help you with some simple stuff if you need be.

hope to hear from you soon!

 

[TheDamien]

Defiance is not an RPG.
True Chaos is not an RPG.
Julien's RPG is not an RPG.
99% of "RPGs" on battle.net are not RPGs.

tKoK Eastern Region is a good example of what an RPG should be.

RPG stands for "role playing game", it has nothing to do with repeating the same task a million times over in order to level up an "uber banshee" or any such nonsense. You need to immerse the player in your map.

You can work towards this by:

1. Implementing realistic shops. Make them close at night, make prices fluctuate between regions, restrict what they buy/sell, etc.

2. Giving NPCs realistic tasks and behaviors. No real person would stay in the same spot, doing nothing, all day. Make NPCs collect lumber to sell to shops, or make them hunt or practice their archery. Make them walk back home at night.

3. Making Factions and Guilds. Give the player the ability to create a faction or guild and recruit mercenary NPCs, allow him to join or malign himself with predefined factions like the town guard or thieves guild.

4. Extending your player's inventories. The 6 slot limit sucks. There are plenty of bag systems out there, grab one for your map.

5. Giving the player the option to learn Crafts. Pretty self-explanatory.

6. Not using the default hero skill system. Maps that use this are lame. Allow heroes to learn different skills in different ways. Maybe the hero will learn a powerful form of meditation from that old sage in the mountains?

7. Using Jass for everything. GUI is fail.

8. Allowing the killing of villagers. The only NPCs who should be invincible are the ones handing out important quests.

9. Putting effort into your terrain. Avoid lame tilesets like Lordaeron Summer, don't use ugly Blizzard cliffs and don't paint large areas of perfectly flat, featureless terrain.

 

[WildTurkey]

thas a good definition but i dont really agree with the part that %99 of role playing games arn't role playing games because a role playing game is a game where you play the role of a character in game (fealing the logic?).
if a rpg is not realistic it doesnt meen it is not a rpg. it just meens that to your standards it is not a very good rpg.

i dont agree with publically putting down another persons map beacuse we like another map more. no matter what we think no map is technically better then the other as each map is its own and with different variables you can not use a test to compare the two so we resort to popularity.

if anyone else wants to post a reply saying that they dont like someone elses map; please dont.

as a reply to the good points you made:
i agree; RPG's should be extremelly realistic and offer many options to the player.
you also made a good point that villagers shouldnt be invulnerable. yes; that is gay and un-realistic.
on my map when you kill a villager the guards around you in that area turn hostile for a period of time as you have just commited a crime.
also; a bit of advice to other players: dont copy other maps. its just not pro...

thank you for replying to this thread. your opinion of a good RPG has been noted.

anyone else have an opinion or wishes to agree?

 

[SFilip]

> extremelly large Role Playing Game (RPG)
Oh dear.
I can already see this as canceled or rushed.
Remember, quality over quantity.

> the guards around you in that area turn hostile for a period of time as you have just commited a crime.
So instead of making the villagers invulnerable you basically die for killing one?
There must be a form of a reward for killing them (assassins guild?) and the guards mustn't attack unless there is one that saw you (not just being nearby). He also must sound the alarm before other will find out about it.
Otherwise you have yourself the same problem as Oblivion - you silently kill a person inside his house on second floor and suddenly all guards in all towns want you dead.

Avoid:
-heroes with large attack speed
-heroes with large damage
-heroes with huge amounts of hit points
(the above was referring to player heroes, bosses are fine with those)
-items that add stats/hp/armor/damage - an item that adds 3 armor should be uber-epic-damn hard to find
-instead of this focus on abilities - make it so that they have to be used strategically, make charged items with spells (scroll of fireball - allows you to cast fireball, 5 charges)

In other words:
A level 3 hero should either lose or barely stay alive after fighting a single level 1 creep using just normal attacks without abilities - I hate RPGs where you can simply use patrol, run off to the nearby store, have lunch and find your hero not only alive but also leveled to the max.
Of course this doesn't mean the abilities should be insta-kill, that hero should still lose at least half of his HP after using them to win.
Hardcore playing makes people the most satisfied in the end.

 

[WildTurkey]

haha... i have 2 people working with me on this RPG so we arnt going to be quiting in a hurry. lol, abit of motivation goes a long way with friends

back to your post...
that is an extremelly good point.
so item abilities are you saying or is it hero abilities that you can aquire from doing quests or what not?
i like the idea of both.
i totally agree with what you are saying about the items and abilities. abilities make a game worth playing but i am not so sure about not having any items.
my current idea is have items that enhance the effect of your abilities.
(eg strength bonus and the spell does a certain amount x strength)

another thing is how would i make it so that guards only turn hostile if they see you? that is an extremelly good point that i have not really thought about and i imagine that it would ruin the game if i do not resolve this so if you could send me a link to a tut or maybe show me a simple trigger it would be much appreciated.

this way it gives a purpose to completing quests and boss levels and Player killing.

also i have another question for you viewers: how far is to far? how many items do you like to have in a RPG? do you think their is such thing as to many?

i look forward to reading what you have to say.
also, thank you for this post. it has made me think hard about possibilities for my map.

thank you SFilip.

 

[Doom-Angel]

> extremelly large Role Playing Game (RPG)
Avoid:
-heroes with large attack speed
-heroes with large damage
-heroes with huge amounts of hit points
(the above was referring to player heroes, bosses are fine with those)
-items that add stats/hp/armor/damage - an item that adds 3 armor should be uber-epic-damn hard to find
-instead of this focus on abilities - make it so that they have to be used strategically, make charged items with spells (scroll of fireball - allows you to cast fireball, 5 charges)

In other words:
A level 3 hero should either lose or barely stay alive after fighting a single level 1 creep using just normal attacks without abilities - I hate RPGs where you can simply use patrol, run off to the nearby store, have lunch and find your hero not only alive but also leveled to the max.
Of course this doesn't mean the abilities should be insta-kill, that hero should still lose at least half of his HP after using them to win.
Hardcore playing makes people the most satisfied in the end.

i agree about the first part but not the second when they start they should have the advantage (of course not that much too patrol like that....) but enough to let them the advantage and i think that you should increase than later on the gaps of powers to monsters and simply making it harder without having good equipments and skills to go and survive there and that what would make it more of a challenge for them the more they level up and also i think there shouldn't high levels by exaggaration like 500 or 200 i think that maximum should go is 100 since there is no point leveling like that so quick you gain your skills within few levels and no challange at all....

Defiance is not an RPG.
True Chaos is not an RPG.
Julien's RPG is not an RPG.
99% of "RPGs" on battle.net are not RPGs.

tKoK Eastern Region is a good example of what an RPG should be.

RPG stands for "role playing game", it has nothing to do with repeating the same task a million times over in order to level up an "uber banshee" or any such nonsense. You need to immerse the player in your map.

You can work towards this by:

1. Implementing realistic shops. Make them close at night, make prices fluctuate between regions, restrict what they buy/sell, etc.

2. Giving NPCs realistic tasks and behaviors. No real person would stay in the same spot, doing nothing, all day. Make NPCs collect lumber to sell to shops, or make them hunt or practice their archery. Make them walk back home at night.

3. Making Factions and Guilds. Give the player the ability to create a faction or guild and recruit mercenary NPCs, allow him to join or malign himself with predefined factions like the town guard or thieves guild.

4. Extending your player's inventories. The 6 slot limit sucks. There are plenty of bag systems out there, grab one for your map.

5. Giving the player the option to learn Crafts. Pretty self-explanatory.

6. Not using the default hero skill system. Maps that use this are lame. Allow heroes to learn different skills in different ways. Maybe the hero will learn a powerful form of meditation from that old sage in the mountains?

7. Using Jass for everything. GUI is fail.

8. Allowing the killing of villagers. The only NPCs who should be invincible are the ones handing out important quests.

9. Putting effort into your terrain. Avoid lame tilesets like Lordaeron Summer, don't use ugly Blizzard cliffs and don't paint large areas of perfectly flat, featureless terrain.

well they do count as ORPG which is more of do whatever you like.....
and as for the suggestions:

1) sounds stupid to make it close at night what kind of RPG does that?
you think people realy got patience for that kind of things?
i don't think so....

3) sounds nice if you able to accomplish it (doesn't sound like quite an easy task especially when you mix it with save load code)

7) it's good to encourge JASS but i belive that even in GUI you could build a succesful RPG

8) unless it actually gives you something it seems useless....
it's like letting them the option to kill rocks or trees..... quite pointless....

as for the rest i couldn't agree more

 

[TheDamien]

well they do count as ORPG which is more of do whatever you like.....
and as for the suggestions:

1) sounds stupid to make it close at night what kind of RPG does that?
you think people realy got patience for that kind of things?
i don't think so....

3) sounds nice if you able to accomplish it (doesn't sound like quite an easy task especially when you mix it with save load code)

7) it's good to encourge JASS but i belive that even in GUI you could build a succesful RPG

8) unless it actually gives you something it seems useless....
it's like letting them the option to kill rocks or trees..... quite pointless....

as for the rest i couldn't agree more

By that definition, a blank map with creeps and a paladin, and save/load codes is an ORPG. It would be about as engaging as most "ORPGs", too.

1. Many successful RPGs featuring a day/night cycle do this. The mapmaker can add/change opening and closing hours as he sees fit. You don't have to close every shop on the map from 18:00 to 6:00, but if you close a few for 4 or 3 hours it adds to the detail.

If people have the patience to manually patrol their hero across a featureless landscape simply to gain levels, then they can put up with a few shops closing now and again.

3. If it's too hard to adapt to your save/load system, then leave it out, if it isn't, then add it in.

7. Jass annihilates GUI in almost every standard of comparison, so what is the point of still using GUI?

8. It gives freedom. How can you be a terrifying necromancer if you are unable to kill a single peasant?

 

[SaintMorose]

I dont really agree with the shop idea but using day/night cycles would be pretty cool if say a certain boss only comes out at night, agility based skills are strengthened at night while magic skills gain slight strength during the day. Giving NPC's quick dawn/dusk routines would really add to a game; however closing access to basic items really doesn't help.

 

[WildTurkey]

i like the idea of creating a cycle that they do different things at different times of the day.

the idea of opening and closing a shop is an interesting one as it can bring more gameplay to the rpg itself.

1 shop might be closed at a certain time of the day so you have to travel to the other town to but items from that shop. i think this would encourage players to not be 'turtles' and instead explore the map.

if we have a higher maximum level it doesnt meen we have to level alot faster. my starting max level is 50 atm but i intend to make it larger...

in reply to SaintMorose: i am not sure if magic attacks should deal more damage at night and agility in the night e.c.t... i think certain classes should be better in their certain time slot which would be rather easy to do. my thoughts on this is possibly the assassin gains movement speed, mage gains mana or intelligence (the base of its spells attack damage) e.c.t thank you for bringing this factor to my attention

the items i am using have level requirements. does anyone not like the idea of a requirment level?

and what would you like the game to give you? if a game is pointless unless it gives something to you then what do you wish to recieve?

i look forward to hearing from you

 

[SFilip]

> does anyone not like the idea of a requirment level?
Keep reading.

> not having any items
Not what I said.
But avoid overpowered items.
Most RPGs have items that increase stats to the point where one item alone gives twice as much as the hero has without it. So it's OK to make stat items, but make sure they aren't too powerful and don't simply give everything.
For example consider a map that has these items

+1 to strength
+2 to strength
+3 to strength
+1 to agility
+2 to agility
+3 to agility
+1 to all stats
+2 to all stats
+3 to all stats

Obviously everyone would want the last. There is no point in having anything different as +3 to all stats is the best without a doubt.
Now consider having items like these

+2 to strength
+2 to agility
+2 to intelligence
+1 to all stats

Yeah, having +1 to all stats is cool and all, but you can have +2 to a single stat you need most. Only 6 slots, one has to do some thinking and consider which one to take in a situation like this.
This is what you should aim to achieve - just creating 1000 items so that you can write in the loading screen "THIS RPG HAS OVER 1000 ITEMS!!!" is bad as opposed to making 50 items that are all of around the same power (not to strong without level req), but require people to think which 6 of the 50 available in your game they should pick. Or maybe they should keep some slots available for potions and those spell-items?

> the spell does a certain amount x strength
This is generally a good idea, but make sure you do it right.
Some RPGs that failed at this either
-always used the same (primary) stat so you would simply go for building that up without caring about the rest, that's not good, different abilities should be affected by different stats
-had uber powerful items (again with that issue) - one item was enough to give the first spell insane damage because of the stats it added
-heroes gained too much stats when leveling, a level 11 hero was far more powerful than a level 10 hero with the same abilities

 

[hell_knight]

Don't agree 100% with what sflilip said , have a balance of what he said cause 50 items without level req is to small while 1000 is too mcuh , shops closings are coo.

@ Above

I belive thats why there ORPGs

 

[SFilip]

> is to small
Compared to what?
Either way 50 was just an example number, the point is that items are overall of the same power, ie. you can't just pick a couple out of those and know they are the strongest.

 

[WildTurkey]

i understand what PFilip has said and i totally agree %100. of coarse when basing spells damage on stats it will vary otherwise repetition occurs and mass bordom simply put.

also, i like the idea of 2+ strength, 2+ agility, 2+ intelligence and 1+ all stats.
you are most certainly correct that this encourages more strategic gameplay. thank you for bringing this to my attention.

once again, thank you SFilip. your input is greatelly appreciated.

another simple question that could have your iedas put into my rpg: does anyone have any good ideas for quests? if so please post hee and i will comment on what i think and inform you if i will use them or not.

 

[0zaru]

For quest ? Make some easiest for new players and some difficult for advanced players BUT Make it difficult both. You get it ? so they can't win alone.

Make some delivery quest though some difficult forest...
A GetAllParts of something quest and then recibe the ability to use the thing that has been armed (Not an item, maybe something that teleports you to some part of the map that is special)


Also i have some ideas:
Make characters start in different places! and in some moment of the game they all will find the others. Have you played ever a FF ? Well they are very good rpgs maybe base your in these but make it different.

Also i must say that a well made story guideline and character guideline will be very nice.

 

[WildTurkey]

yeah, they are good rpg's.
thank you for your input.

currently their are 2 starting positions for the two teams that are waring against each other.
so only 2 starting points.

of coarse a storyline would be good and is needed in every successful role playing game.

thanks

 

[Idontknowyou]

In an rpg it is EXTREMELY important to have a large variety of landscapes, ocean, mountain, forest, caves, desert, city, deadland, marsh, canyon, coral reefs, islands, former battelfields; maybe you can be creative and have landscapes with incredibly strange trees,rocks, and landscape. Remember to seperate your different terrains using plateaus or doodads, it looks really tacky when it goes abruptly from forest to desert.

use your doodads wisely, they can make your terrain look very good if used right; sometimes having several doodads crowded into an area can look good ( small biulding doodad can look good like that when placedbehind the larger biulding doodads)

DO NOT use cliffs!!! they are ugly and completely bugged. You can make better cliffs using the plateau tool in the apply hieght section. You can add water without the ugly cliffs by adding the water, raising the land back to normal level and putting hills wich slope into the water



It might help to use WEU for your terraining, It's plateau tool adds a much more vertical ledge, but alot of people do not recomendusing this .


Edit: is that you corey??

 

[Syndrome]

what i feel what is most important is to 'immerse' people in my RPG.
I have made one called Chaotic Runes, which isn't quiet done yet, but the Terrain is ... 'alive', butterflies fly around, fog covers the wet forest ground, etc... make the terrain 'breathe' with some doodads, and try not to make it flat.
i could lend you my map for some viewing if you want to...

edit:
BTW, reading the above post... do NOT use WEU, its a buggy mess for me, get the NewGen Editor

 

[TheDamien]

You can make very vertical elevations if you grab the MiscData.txt from the bottom of this post and put it in Warcraft III\UI.

 

[WildTurkey]

To Geoff. L: yes, i would love to view your map. immersing people in your role playing game is what makes it successful, how do you think world of warcraft become so popular. in the end the game is completlly pointless but the quests make the player adicted to the game making it extremelly successful.

also; WEU doesnt cause errors, the person using WEU causes errors. WEU is good if used properly and in an expert manner.

vertical elevations are pretty easy to make without that but thank you for that file as well. i am sure it will help many people reading this thread.

any other ideas or agreements? i wish to hear everyone opinion even if it entirelly different!

 

[Psiblade94122]

hmm nothing makes a good rpg without weapons!

instead of just genericly adding damg with random weps, make it so the weapon will determen your attack style, attack damage, attack range, attack speed, skills avalible

Like a Bow would actualy add range instead of just pure damage, and itll change your attack type so your physical attacks will be weakened vs soem monsters, but incresed vs others.

And for skills reqireing weapon restrictions, something like "aim" will be restricted to projetile weapons, or Two-Hand Quicken restricted to only Two handed swords

also, inventory space, keep in mind that wc3 can support a max 6 inventory slots per hero/unit, equipments shuld be stored in the game as variables so itll provide room for things like Key items, or potions if needed

Class restrictions: most weapons in RPG (normal ones) are restricted to characters or classes, i think this shuld be given specal attention in warcraft III maps because seeing a pally trying to shoot a bow by slaming it down to the ground is just stupid. With class restrictions, itll keep these oddities out of the game, thus makeing it feel more polished and makeing it more immersive.

Differnt Character builds: This will also make a good rpg, open or not. with differnt builds avalible, it will add replay value to the map, class restrictions here is a dubble eged sword, restriced weps, lowers the ammounts of possible builds.... but the upside is alredy stated so i wont state it again XD. If you look at most of the FF games, you can usualy "build" your characters via class change systems (you get differnt stat growths on level up) esper system (what spells you learn) Materia system (what spells and or specal effects your character has) Sphere system (every char has a path, but at high levels the paths of multiple chars intertwine) lisence system (very much like the sphere system, exept now its on a grid and it unlocks equipment and or magic allowing you to use it, just haveing the license dosent mean you can use it, you must also have the item XD) these systems are what have helped FF games get this far XD (these are just suggestions, if you make one thats original suprise me ^-^)

uhhh i think thats it......

oh... for how to keep a map going

When you version update, never EVER (unless its a fix for a save explot) make it so older versions cannot load on the newer versions, this just ruins it for people who have gotten far in the story and are awating the next chapter in the game... nobody likes replaying a game over and over again, especaly when its on wcIII, where updates happen constantly

oh i forgot... STORY, no good rpg is compleat without a good story, look at xenosaga, the story was amazeing, but the battle system sucks ass, and its still popular! you cant go wrong with haveing a good story behind it!