Does socialism work?

[Slapshot136]

Capitalists also wants equality, but they want to achieve it in another way.

no.. there is no such thing as a true capitalist who wants equality, equality is against the principle of capitalism - capitalism is driven by profit, which you don't want to equalize or share, capitalism dictates that you want to make the most profit you can, and leave as little for everyone else

 

[mapguy]

no.. there is no such thing as a true capitalist who wants equality, equality is against the principle of capitalism - capitalism is driven by profit, which you don't want to equalize or share, capitalism dictates that you want to make the most profit you can, and leave as little for everyone else

Capitalism is a factory of inequallity.

 

[Miz]

Does Socialism Work?
That's really up to opinion, but in all honesty: nothing purely on its own works. Both sides; True Socialism and True Capitalism are both hell-like philosophies, so all I can say is: "pick your poison".

True Socialism is a grand Utopian ideal, but practiced in the real world would only cause a break up in our fragile human societies, because with True Socialism all hierarchy is removed and everyone is truly equal economically and sometimes even socially. Now while this might sound like a perfect god-given system and we would all get along, it wouldn't work. As true socialism goes against the Human Mind and its nature. No human society can work if no one is aspiring to beat other people. Life and everything in it, after all, is a competition. Remove that competition and humanity falls apart, so it is only in our best interest to continue competing against one another. This is why, the equality set up in True Socialism would wither away as people would aspire for success, glory and of course power and money. For that is how Human society works, without hierarchy we are lost and even if we try to prevent one from forming, one will, whether we like it or not. This can only be proven more so with previous socialist republics; where in the beginning they preached equality economically and socially but towards the end of their deaths; massive and complex hierarchy was obliviously in play and at the top of it, the government officials and associates, had all the money and power while peasants barely had anything to sustain them.

However, this doesn't mean Capitalism is much better;

True Capitalism is an economically policy of simply put "The Stronger will Devour the Weaker" and unlike Socialism it does not derive from equality but that of the Human Nature and competition. The Better business will win in the end. Once again, sounds like a perfect plan doesn't it? The Best business with the best service and cheapest costs will come out as the victor. Yet if you look at it; True Capitalism might as well be the economically policy of anarchy. Absolutely no regulation. People can do whatever they like to get their business or organization profitable and powerful by any means necessary, no matter how much it disrespects other peoples rights or goes against the wants of the community as a whole. Slavery, child labor, over exhaustion of workers (even to death), physical and mental abuse as well as the endangerment of workers are all apart of True Capitalism, the side people don't want to face, but it goes even farther then that. Workers aren't the only ones affected; companies and businesses can lie about their products, and even risk their consumers for a quick buck without being sued or punished. After all, "By Any Means Necessary", means just that and after all, workers whom get hurt on a job, are merely replaced by new ones. There is no health care, or well fare or any benefits. If you get injured or sick, you are in the way of business so you are gone. End of story.

By telling you the two sides, I hope you see that nations and societies of the world have more then two choices then just Capitalism and Socialism for in all honesty neither works. History has proven that over and over again.

The "best" system we humans can possibly create, combines the best of both worlds. After all economies are like cakes, you don't have to pick just Chocolate or Yellow Cake, you can pick something in between such as a marble cake in which you can decide how much Chocolate (Socialism) or Yellow (Capitalism) you want in it. So that everyone is happy.

So in conclusion; Does Socialism work? No it doesn't, but neither does Capitalism. Even in the United States, supposedly the "most capitalistic country in the world". We don't actually follow Capitalism for we have learned through lessons of history that it doesn't work, so instead we have what is called a mixed economy. A vague balance between the two sides. Because after all, extremes are never good. Why limit yourself to one flavor or taste when you can have two, three or possibly even four mixed together? In truth nothing is perfect but that doesn't mean we can't try to find a balance and see what works for us. Life after all, is all about Trial and Error. :thup:

 

[NightShade]

My only problem with miz's post is that now I want to eat cake.

Otherwise it's the perfect post for this thread. (at least for me)

 

[mapguy]

Does Socialism Work?
That's really up to opinion, but in all honesty: nothing purely on its own works. Both sides; True Socialism and True Capitalism are both hell-like philosophies, so all I can say is: "pick your poison".

True Socialism is a grand Utopian ideal, but practiced in the real world would only cause a break up in our fragile human societies, because with True Socialism all hierarchy is removed and everyone is truly equal economically and sometimes even socially. Now while this might sound like a perfect god-given system and we would all get along, it wouldn't work. As true socialism goes against the Human Mind and its nature. No human society can work if no one is aspiring to beat other people. Life and everything in it, after all, is a competition. Remove that competition and humanity falls apart, so it is only in our best interest to continue competing against one another. This is why, the equality set up in True Socialism would wither away as people would aspire for success, glory and of course power and money. For that is how Human society works, without hierarchy we are lost and even if we try to prevent one from forming, one will, whether we like it or not. This can only be proven more so with previous socialist republics; where in the beginning they preached equality economically and socially but towards the end of their deaths; massive and complex hierarchy was obliviously in play and at the top of it, the government officials and associates, had all the money and power while peasants barely had anything to sustain them.

However, this doesn't mean Capitalism is much better;

True Capitalism is an economically policy of simply put "The Stronger will Devour the Weaker" and unlike Socialism it does not derive from equality but that of the Human Nature and competition. The Better business will win in the end. Once again, sounds like a perfect plan doesn't it? The Best business with the best service and cheapest costs will come out as the victor. Yet if you look at it; True Capitalism might as well be the economically policy of anarchy. Absolutely no regulation. People can do whatever they like to get their business or organization profitable and powerful by any means necessary, no matter how much it disrespects other peoples rights or goes against the wants of the community as a whole. Slavery, child labor, over exhaustion of workers (even to death), physical and mental abuse as well as the endangerment of workers are all apart of True Capitalism, the side people don't want to face, but it goes even farther then that. Workers aren't the only ones affected; companies and businesses can lie about their products, and even risk their consumers for a quick buck without being sued or punished. After all, "By Any Means Necessary", means just that and after all, workers whom get hurt on a job, are merely replaced by new ones. There is no health care, or well fare or any benefits. If you get injured or sick, you are in the way of business so you are gone. End of story.

By telling you the two sides, I hope you see that nations and societies of the world have more then two choices then just Capitalism and Socialism for in all honesty neither works. History has proven that over and over again.

The "best" system we humans can possibly create, combines the best of both worlds. After all economies are like cakes, you don't have to pick just Chocolate or Yellow Cake, you can pick something in between such as a marble cake in which you can decide how much Chocolate (Socialism) or Yellow (Capitalism) you want in it. So that everyone is happy.

So in conclusion; Does Socialism work? No it doesn't, but neither does Capitalism. Even in the United States, supposedly the "most capitalistic country in the world". We don't actually follow Capitalism for we have learned through lessons of history that it doesn't work, so instead we have what is called a mixed economy. A vague balance between the two sides. Because after all, extremes are never good. Why limit yourself to one flavor or taste when you can have two, three or possibly even four mixed together? In truth nothing is perfect but that doesn't mean we can't try to find a balance and see what works for us. Life after all, is all about Trial and Error. :thup:

FUCKING AWESOME POST!
no more comments. God can close this thread because the discussion if finished.

 

[Zakyath]

True Capitalism is an economically policy of simply put "The Stronger will Devour the Weaker" and unlike Socialism it does not derive from equality but that of the Human Nature and competition. The Better business will win in the end. Once again, sounds like a perfect plan doesn't it? The Best business with the best service and cheapest costs will come out as the victor. Yet if you look at it; True Capitalism might as well be the economically policy of anarchy. Absolutely no regulation. People can do whatever they like to get their business or organization profitable and powerful by any means necessary, no matter how much it disrespects other peoples rights or goes against the wants of the community as a whole. Slavery, child labor, over exhaustion of workers (even to death), physical and mental abuse as well as the endangerment of workers are all apart of True Capitalism, the side people don't want to face, but it goes even farther then that. Workers aren't the only ones affected; companies and businesses can lie about their products, and even risk their consumers for a quick buck without being sued or punished. After all, "By Any Means Necessary", means just that and after all, workers whom get hurt on a job, are merely replaced by new ones. There is no health care, or well fare or any benefits. If you get injured or sick, you are in the way of business so you are gone. End of story.

I think you have misunderstood the fundamental theories of capitalism. Try learning a thing or two about free trade, concurrence or even taking a course in organizational theory.

In this part you did the following:

State your own opinions without a single source to back your nonsense up. You took some worst case scenarios that you (with your unlimited knowledge) imagined (not understood) would happen.

Capitalism is based on economic science rather than the distancing from it that many socialists tend to do. It stands for welfare, freedom and equality. Even though 'every' ideology strives for this, they all have their different ways of achieving it.

Now, if you think I am wrong I want you to prove it.

I might as well add that I would not vote for the republicans if I could.

 

[Miz]

Someone actually responded to me in a debate? Usually I just get ignored.
So thank you for responding to me.

Capitalism is based on economic science rather than the distancing from it that many socialists tend to do. It stands for welfare, freedom and equality. Even though 'every' ideology strives for this, they all have their different ways of achieving it

First off, I think that's a little bit Bias. Socialism also follows economic science, that is why things like
Scientific Socialism. Marx's predictions that existed in the communist manifesto followed this, but they were not followed through because of movements such as Liberalism.

Scientific socialism refers to a method for understanding and predicting social, economic and material phenomena by examining their historical trends through the use of the scientific method in order to derive probable outcomes and probable future developments.

State your own opinions without a single source to back your nonsense up. You took some worst case scenarios that you (with your unlimited knowledge) imagined (not understood) would happen.

Now then, I never stated it was to be realistic, I said this is what they are both like in their True Philosophical Forms. Nothing in its true philosophical form is pretty, because it might work on paper or someones head but it will fail horribly in real life society where humans don't act like perfect statistics.

These are not just horrible hells made up in my imagination but the closest thing I can probably assume to what the true Capitalism and Socialism will look like. My basis for True Captialism that you are denouncing my knowledge about, was History; Early Industrialized societies in the 19th century such as England and where the ideals of Purist Laissez Faire Captialism was written, and if you want to know how horrible that was, all you need to do is look in the past. Yet even that wasn't true Captialism.

I tried to show you both horrific hells, so that all of you realize that you are just debating over two practices that are actually never used but are spouted out every day by people who think they are.

What people think is Socialism and Captialism aren't really so and fit in the array of Mixed Economy. Just some nations are more inclined to Capitalistic ideals then Socialist ones, no one is purely anything. So debating on which would work is entirely pointless because no side has anything to work with or real life examples to prove their part of the argument.

The Question wasn't if Free or Fair Trade Works, or if it is better to be more inclined to Socialist or Capitalistic Ideals. No, the question was Does Socialism Work?
I answered that with a clear no as True Socialism has never been achieved or used before and for good reason for intellectuals and leaders throughout time realized there was no way for them to achieve it without resulting in their nations demise and instead made their own version following more inclined ideology to socialism.
But just like how one extreme doesn't work, I set out to prove my point that neither does the other or what you people call "Captialism"

What I brought up was Captialism in its purist form of Laissz Faire Captialism, which is considered True Captialism by text books. What you people keep bringing up in this debate is not true capitalism. It is Mixed Economy that follows a majority of the Laissez Faire Capitalism but doesn't fully make a commitment to it and doesn't follow all of its ideals. Thus, isn't "Captialism".

Because people often use the term "Capitalism" loosely, "Laissez Faire Capitalism" is sometimes used to describe a true Capitalist system. But this phrase is redundant, due to the nature of Capitalism. Therefore, simply "Capitalism" is sufficient to get the point across although historically it has been misrepresented as compatible with government economic interference.

Laissez Faire Capitalism - Importance of Philosophy

If you disagree me, give me one nation that is still around today that has followed the True Ideologies of both Capitalism and Socialism down to its core and did not become a Mixed Economy and embracing at least some small part of the other extremes Ideology.

 

[The Helper]

Bumping the socialist thread