Map Making

[XxShadyxX]

Okay, I know I have asked similar questions before but,
Everytime I make a map I start out very organized and everything fits into place then suddenly I get extremely unorganized and I get a huge overload.
What do you people do to keep organized.
What do you start first? Terrain? Units? Triggers?
Do you keep logs?
Please some comments on how to keep organized will be very helpful.
Also How do i get from unorganized to organized.
Thank you

 

[Sneakster]

For triggers, I make my triggers separated into categories and use lots of comments so that I don't get confused. Usually I start terraining first. Then I will add appropriate units, items, etc. Then I string it all together with triggers.

 

[Lightstalker]

Me, I usually start working on the terrain a bit, then units, then triggers. The reason I keep switching around is so that I don't become bored of doing just one. Also, you need to have all units and abilities done for some triggers.

Anyway, keep your triggers into categories. Like this:

(attached)

Remember, after a unit is created, you can classify it by changing its race and by changing if its a campaign unit, and/or a special unit (under Editor in the object data of a unit) as to make things more organized.

Another thing I do, is go to the Object Manager (the grey square in the toolbar), then go to Variables, and delete all unused variables. I also keep my variable names very descriptive.

 

[MateoSoetsu]

I jump around a lot focusing on triggers first. I'll do some basic stuff and then I'll have to do class triggers so I have to make some units. Then I'll work on some item triggers and have to make some items. When I run into a problem I'll work on something else while I try and get a question answered on the forum or from a map making friend.

Mainly I organize all units/abilities/items/triggers and I date all my triggers of when I last worked on them.

I do terrain last.

 

[XxShadyxX]

Hmm Great responses. What I keep ending up doing is I make as it goes. For example I make stuff so you can start playing even if it isn't done. Like I make a little terrain, then I make some units and their triggers. Then I add to it all. But it feels like it takes alot longer than it should. How often do you guys test your maps? Like everytime to edit something or what?

 

[Sneakster]

Every time I make a major change or add a new event to the map I usually test it to make sure it works. So really I test the map a LOT.

 

[BlightWarden]

Okay, I know I have asked similar questions before but,
Everytime I make a map I start out very organized and everything fits into place then suddenly I get extremely unorganized and I get a huge overload.
What do you people do to keep organized.
What do you start first? Terrain? Units? Triggers?
Do you keep logs?
Please some comments on how to keep organized will be very helpful.
Also How do i get from unorganized to organized.
Thank you

I use a three map system. One map for unit/ability/item building. My terrain map and my test map.

I build the units first. Get the starting stats and stats per level out of the way, find the right game constants and the sizing of the units. Then I start on the abilities, now that I know how much life unit X has at level X, I know what limit to have for my abilities. Then I do items.

Now that I have all the basic stuff done, I start on triggers that are not region based. After that is done and I know what buildings/creeps I am going to use, I start my terrain map. After my terrain map layout is done and I'v set the game constants(terrain and doodads with no detail) I start on regions and region triggers and quest triggers.

Then I place my units on the map and test the hell out of it. If everything is working how I want, I start detailing the map with doodads, props and terrain fixes. Pretty soon my maps done.

And yes I log everything. I keep folders in my wc3 game folder and document everything I need to.

I also keep a folder with wc3 WE basics, like how big a map can be online, the max amount of doodads, player units, neutral units and things like that. I add to that folder almost daily. 40+ maps made and I'm still learning.:thup:

 

[Funky_Luffe]

I am having the same problem as the op and I think these answers are great.
Especially "BlightWarden", this sounds like the rigth way to do it !

 

[BlightWarden]

Thanks! I have a serious lack of focus and my memory isn't very good for map making. I often work on a map for a few weeks, then get sucked into either another pc game, my ps3 or life in general and come back to the map wondering "what did I do, what was I planning to do, wtf am I going to do now?" So I try to make it easy to figure out whats what and keep notes that tell me "ok, stupid, this is what you were doing and thinking at this point."

Before I started my current process, I would start a map, leave it and come back months later with no idea what I was doing. So I would scrap the entire map, so I'v made around 300+ maps, but only 40 survived. Plus I forget a lot of information on HOW to do things in the WE, so I'll come back to this site over and over again and ask the same questions year after year to refresh my memory.

Online guides will never help me as much as forum discussion, so you will always see me back here, asking how to combine items, change creep levels over time and anything else. Even thought I'v already learned that.

I'v started a Q&A folder where I am slowly listing all the question I have, all the helpful answers I get and the finished triggers (when it deals with triggers) in the folder so I can reduce the number of questions I ask here and also to save me time.

You either really have to catch on to WE map making quickly or really love mapping to do it. Otherwise map making in the WE is just a giant bother.


PS: The very last thing I do on my maps is, once I have finished EVERYTHING else, I check to see the file size of my map. Now I know how much memory I have left to play with and thats when I add in any custom skins or models I want to use. I love custom skins and models and icons because I have NO artistic talent when it comes to drawing/painting. So I will never be a skinne/modeler/iconist. So I value their talent very highly.

For exsample, General Frank is one of my favorite modelers because I love dragonlance and he created atleast two models that look like draconians. Flame and Lightning. I love those units! Also the Fellwarrior hero with the awesome armor and hammer. There are so many models and skins that I love it drives me alittle nuts that I can't use them all.

My 5150arena map is going to be for custom skins/models. I just need to learn how to make custom spells first, or work with someone else on that map so it can be a very good arena and not just a subpar map. My best maps will always be subpar because I do not know jass. So they can be very good for standard WE maps, but never as good as jass maps. I can live with that.

 

[Lightstalker]

Hmm Great responses. What I keep ending up doing is I make as it goes. For example I make stuff so you can start playing even if it isn't done. Like I make a little terrain, then I make some units and their triggers. Then I add to it all. But it feels like it takes alot longer than it should. How often do you guys test your maps? Like everytime to edit something or what?

When I'm done all the changes and about to release a beta version (or a new version), that's when I test my map, and I do it quite exstansively too, now. A good thing to do is have a pen and paper handy and write all the bugs/changes you found and then fix them all one by one.

 

[Gtam]

In free time get clean pages and write what needs to be done and all that stuf then look at what would u like to do then do it and cros it of

 

[darkreapers]

the best way to get organised and focus on ur goals is to just write a check list.
work from the top down, and tick everything off as you go.
the same principle applies for assignments :thup:

 

[Tooblet]

yeah like darkreapers said.

I do like lists of about anything..
like I usually have a to do list with everything in it:

Systems:
* blabla
* Creep respawn
* info text in questlog
* anything my map will have in it

Terrain:
* More trees in forest 1
* add a mountain in the middle of map.
* even small things like: change size of flowers and put em somewhere..

Spells:
* 2 spells for hero x
* 1 spell for hero z..

and then when I do something on the list, I just remove it.
and everytime I come up with an idéa or something I wanna add to map,
I put it on the to do lists ^^

And then I have lists of all my heroes and all their spells so I can see what needs to be done and also what I HAVE done.
Think that's the most difficult part, keep track of all the things u've done.

I also find it easy to make things if I know what I'm about to make..
So if Im gonna make an rpg with 200 items, I write them down
Name, abilities, what level creeps they should drop from, sometimes even icons..

make sure to keep it simple so that you can easily keep track of everything.
Think of the lists as RL variables u store idéas, bugs and things u might forget later on

 

[XxShadyxX]

A mod should make this a Tut Thread.

 

[retupmoc258]

This is kind of after the fact, but one thing I noticed that helps a lot is to WRITE DOWN the changes you make so you only have to do a test run every once in a while. Also, if you feel something is working properly, instead of having to load it, you can remove it temporarily. For example, if you've completed a trigger and it's not essential during your test, don't have it. Same with lots of units and such (especially spawning trigs). I write down a list of things I've edited and revised and then go in and check them all out at one time. Unless I need some immediate input and then I run the test a few times consequtively.

Another thing that helps for map size and loading time during tests is to keep some things separate. If you can put something in another map file and then import the data again later, that can sometimes help. Just be aware that reimporting it may overwrite information (I think. I haven't tried merging Object data, Ability Data, or anything like that). That's especially useful if you're using extensive triggers.

 

[Xienoph]

I do whatever I feel like when I want it. If I run out of ideas for terrain, do the classes, when I run out of ideas for stories, do the items, etc, etc. I think it's also very useful to keep a "TODO" list, separated by priorities / difficulties. If I'm tired and want to do something small, just do a small thing in the TODO list.

When you said logs, do you mean the changes you've made? I think those are a waste of time. It's good for customers, but if you haven't had a release, it's rather pointless.

As awful as it is, I find Excel to be a great way to keep track all the stats while keeping everything balanced. The rest of the ideas are all in notepad.

I'm in the camp of testing every time you make a single change. It helps to isolate a bug cause, should you find a bug.

For triggers and units in the editor, I prefix the names with big capital letters. Like: CLASSNAMEUnitName. For abilities, you can't prefix the name. So I use the race to differentiate between player abilities, items, and enemies. For tech / upgrades, I use the race to differentiate between hero classes.

EDIT: Wait WHAT? Did I just help necro a thread oO

 

[Joccaren]

I start of by planning the map exactly: What quests, abilities, heroes, units, terrains ect. there will be. I then make all the custom units, items, doodads, abilities ect. before making the terrain. Once I make the terrain, I create a dummy unit to explore the map to make sure I havn't accidently blocked off any areas i don't want blocked off. Then, I add in all the units. After that I just add in a quest, test the quest I just added, fix it, and repeat. Then I just add in all the excess triggers ect. that I havn't added in yet, test the map without a dummy unit (as if I had downloaded it and were playing it for the first time, having to pick my unit or recieve it from a trigger) and check EVERYTHING. Do every quest, use every Item, replay with every hero. If this all works well, I consider myself done, release an Alpha version to get ideas for improvement then add the posted ideas in.

 

[13lade619]

1. Write down EVERYTHING (ideas, changes, logs), also helps for future reference.
2. Make a TO DO list. (keeps you on track)
3. Test. Test. Test. (never release anything untested.)

 

[Yoshii]

1: I write thing down in my mind
2: I do the terrain 1st then the trigger while using placeholder unit/hero/spell
3: Test every smal change I did.

 

[Bloodydood]

I plan beforehand and design steps to the process, first on paper. Terrain is usually the very first thing to start with on the map.