9/11 - Al Qaeda or the U.S.?

[Jackal]

>>Personally I find it difficult to belive that the US could have done such an attack. I'm sure that if the government was behind it they would have screwed it up somehow.

They did...otherwise there would be no conspiracy/ conspiracy evidence.

there is evidence? I thought it was all talk

 

[Zakyath]

I don't think Bush would take such risks, he's a fascist and he wants to become mighty, he could've done other things to gain the trust of the americans.

 

[Varine]

After seeing Michael Moore's Farenheit 9/11, im really sure that the american government did this, the government is corrupt they are the real terroists!!

watch the movie, it's really informatiove. (it's been banned from cinemas all over in america)

vote for the democrats next time.

After seeing Michael Moore's Farenheit 9/11, im really sure that the american government did this, the government is corrupt they are the real terroists!!

watch the movie, it's really informatiove. (it's been banned from cinemas all over in america)

vote for the democrats next time.


facts from the movie:



from now on im anti bush!! Go obamma

He also lied. A lot. Here you go:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1169995/posts
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
http://www.slate.com/id/2102723/
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/moore.htm
http://fahrenheit_fact.blogspot.com/
http://wizbangblog.com/content/2004/07/23/fahrenheit-911.php

And there's an H in Fahrenheit. Sorry to confuse you with facts.

So, umm... yeah, I'm not seeing anything that would really give any cause for the government to take part in the attack, nor have I seen much in the way of... you know, evidence of such. I mean, I've seen the videos that people made... but then again I've also seen what actually happened so those are pretty useless. Maybe someone can enlighten me, and not base their belief entirely off the will to hate Bush?

 

[Newbwc3]

I don't believe the US would do such a thing. I was suprised that this was a debate. It would be way to hard to stage a fake terrorist attack. There's all them people that seen everything, people like to tell secrets so it would've gotten out, And how could they possibly blow up the buildings and have all the planes crashing without anyone knowing that the US did it. Its too farfetched. I understand the government could lie at times, but this would be way to hard to cover up. AL Qaeda is bad. They did it. What you think Al Qaeda is good? And loves the US? OH, no they would never even think of doing it! bah.

Besides how would the government find all the right people to carry out the task and not "tell" on them?

 

[Varine]

I don't believe the US would do such a thing. I was suprised that this was a debate. It would be way to hard to stage a fake terrorist attack. There's all them people that seen everything, people like to tell secrets so it would've gotten out, And how could they possibly blow up the buildings and have all the planes crashing without anyone knowing that the US did it. Its too farfetched. I understand the government could lie at times, but this would be way to hard to cover up. AL Qaeda is bad. They did it. What you think Al Qaeda is good? And loves the US? OH, no they would never even think of doing it! bah.

Besides how would the government find all the right people to carry out the task and not "tell" on them?

I remember that at an airport someone tried to convince me that there was a missile on one of the planes. People believe the weirdest things just so that they can hate the Bush Administration.
And as I recall, the Al' Qaeda already popped up and took credit for it, and then made fun of us for arguing about it.

 

[hell_knight]

Ironic that a few days before 9/11 all the BOMB SNIFFING DOGS were removed. Also practive drills occured during this time. ( Bombs easily could of been put down )
Buildings have been burning for 20 hours + did not collapse because they were made of steel but the world trade center just an hour?

They probaly want oil or something honestly. US Government got the shit to do this mentioned a lot already , northwood once again.

 

[esb]

The buildings also had the weight of airplanes... if that counts for anything.

I used to believe there was a conspiracy. But now it doesn't matter, there's no going back. The gov. might have its reasons, that we might or might now understand, or want to understand.

 

[Varine]

Ironic that a few days before 9/11 all the BOMB SNIFFING DOGS were removed. Also practive drills occured during this time. ( Bombs easily could of been put down )
Buildings have been burning for 20 hours + did not collapse because they were made of steel but the world trade center just an hour?

They probaly want oil or something honestly. US Government got the shit to do this mentioned a lot already , northwood once again.

Yeah... we would probably just go take it, or use of the times they attacked us or declared war previously as an excuse.

But no, those little explosions every fifteen stories or whatever after the building started to collapse, those definately are explosions and without them the building never would have fallen.

Do you believe the government was responsible for Pealr Harbor too?

 

[Aqua Dragon]

But no, those little explosions every fifteen stories or whatever after the building started to collapse, those definately are explosions and without them the building never would have fallen.

Do you believe the government was responsible for Pealr Harbor too?

1) What Little Explosions?
2) THis is not about Pearl Harbor, don't try to change the subject from 9/11 to Pearl Harbor

 

[stubs101]

Ironic that a few days before 9/11 all the BOMB SNIFFING DOGS were removed. Also practive drills occured during this time. ( Bombs easily could of been put down )
Buildings have been burning for 20 hours + did not collapse because they were made of steel but the world trade center just an hour?

They probably want oil or something honestly. US Government got the shit to do this mentioned a lot already , north wood once again.

Buildings that were burning for 20 + hours were not hit with a ??? ton plane, and were not as high, did not weigh as much, and did not have pressured air collapsing mini-structures inside.

Bomb-sniffing dogs... there were no bombs, and maybe budget cuts occurred lol. The practice drills occurred because there were no bomb-sniffing dogs.

And of course bombs could have been put down. The practice drills were obviously performed without any authorized surveillance.:nuts:

 

[Varine]

1) What Little Explosions?
2) THis is not about Pearl Harbor, don't try to change the subject from 9/11 to Pearl Harbor

The little 'explosions' that apperantly were responsible for the collapse of the towers. If you watch some of the videos you can see air being forced out of a window every few stories, and apperantly those are sufficient.

And Pearl Harbor is relavent if you know about the circumstances surrounding the attack, such as the Aircraft carriers not being present while all other ships are (the carriers were the primary Anti-Air defensive ships), as well as the ammunition issues and various things immediatly preceding the attack. The relavence is that if you believe one, then you would probably believe the other, although mostly it was related to my curiosity.

 

[Aqua Dragon]

The little 'explosions' that apperantly were responsible for the collapse of the towers. If you watch some of the videos you can see air being forced out of a window every few stories, and apperantly those are sufficient.

From what I know, those "Explosions" are the result of the top of the building squishing on the air in the building like a giant sponge. The doorways at the bottom and the open windows that were open would probbally not be sufficient and getting all the air out of the building in time, so it had to force a way out through any one of the possible escapes (which, in this case, would be a weakened or broken window). All the air would come out of that hole until it invetibly would also stop working since the top of the building would destroy that opening, and would require more to allow the rest of the air out somehow.

Of course, don't take my word for it. Ask an expert - I'm only your weird ol 13 year old kid

 

[Varine]

From what I know, those "Explosions" are the result of the top of the building squishing on the air in the building like a giant sponge. The doorways at the bottom and the open windows that were open would probbally not be sufficient and getting all the air out of the building in time, so it had to force a way out through any one of the possible escapes (which, in this case, would be a weakened or broken window). All the air would come out of that hole until it invetibly would also stop working since the top of the building would destroy that opening, and would require more to allow the rest of the air out somehow.

Of course, don't take my word for it. Ask an expert - I'm only your weird ol 13 year old kid

That is what they are, but there are a lot of idiots who think that for some reason demolition charges would only take out one window.

Here's a video of it:

[GOOG]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2252378694521607275&q=WTC+explosions&total=1352&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=6[/GOOG]

Why anyone would see these as purposeful (as they appear to have start after the building fell) I don't know, because after the collapse began there's no chance of it stopping.

 

[Rad]

After seeing Michael Moore's Farenheit 9/11, im really sure that the american government did this, the government is corrupt they are the real terroists!!=

Don't let videos get to your head, look at everything the government does and tell me that the bad outweighs the good AT ALL

Theres so many different factions, sub factions etc contained with the government you can't just blame "The american government", nor can you just blame Bush.

But I have nothing to say about 911. So many people died, and I honestly don't believe our government would do that to us just to go to war. Nothing good has come from war, tons of money has been lost since 911. They would have had something to go on and if nobody has figured out what yet, I doubt they ever will.

 

[sqrage]

>>Nothing good has come from war, tons of money has been lost since 911.

Just in the big picture it's lost money.

Wars ALWAYS make money, privately, even if they are costing the country billions, people are privately making billions off it.

 

[Varine]

Nothing good has come from war

Yeah, stopping genocides and overthrowing psychopathic dictators and totalitarian Islamofascism isn't good at all.

 

[Halo_king116]

Do you believe the government was responsible for Pealr Harbor too?

I'm sorry, you are the weakest link. What I mean by that is after this comment I find it hard for many of us even consider you as a source of an arguement in this thread, instead as a source of jibberish.

I mean, you're saying it as if we're arguing the possibility of the government being behind 9/11 for the heck of it, just for the sake of having no faith in the American Government. Well my good sir, you're crazy.

In no way can you even consider bringing Pearl Harbour into this, and your arguement of "if you believe one, then you would probably believe the other" is absoloutly... insane.

No, I have an amount of common sense and tend notice all of the major gaps in the conspiracy theories.

Thats a funny thing to say, that a vast portion of Americans have no commen sense. You believe in the American Government but not the American People? Well, thats a sad way to look at things there, bud.

It was definately aliens

Old news.


I have already stated my opinions on 9/11. I have just come back to say that you should learn to argue properly... Much of what you said, Varine, can be taken offensively because of your blunt assumptions towards all of those who do not believe what you do.

Please, for the sake of all the formalities of the debate, fight proper fights that are actually debatable. Bringing Pearl Harbour into this just lost you credability.



Have a good one!


>>Wars ALWAYS make money, privately, even if they are costing the country billions, people are privately making billions off it.

Thats true. Behind every war there is someone counting the cash they've made, somewhere.

 

[Varine]

If you knew the circumstances surrounding Pearl Harbor then you would probably find the two incrediably similar, and since most people base their beliefs off such circumstances, then one can logically make the connection that the government was behind both if they were behind one. But since you apparently don't, the argument fails to make any affect because there would be no reason for it to.
Yes, it's very crazy to bring up another event that shocked our nation and led to war while sharing similar preceding events on our part. Though, as I'm pretty sure I said afterward, it was more for my curiosity than for a sake of arguing.

Why would I put my trust into a people, a vast majority of which distrusts the government that I trust and work for? Would that make sense to you? But since I generalize everything, you must have no common sense, being an American, so I wouldn't expect it to.
Although that isn't to say I don't trust the American people; I simply wanted to make an argument to your statement. And I like how you infer that I trust the government simply because I said I don't believe they're responsible for the attack and notice gaps in these conspiracy theories. Did I say anything about distrusting the American populace? If I did I don't recall it, and was probably lying. Although there are some people whom I wouldn't place responsibility on....

I would hope people do take offense to what I say, as the majority of it was given with the hope of making those vainly arguing with me to realize the stupidity of the basis of their stance.

All in all, it was a good attempt to attack my character, wasn't it? Maybe you should begin focusing on debunking my beliefs rather than attack my personal character. It would be a lot more effective.

 

[esb]

Well, it would only be logical too attack your attacker, or not?

If they attack your harbor, wouldn't you send an Atomic bomb?
If they destroyed your two tallest buildings, and damaged your economy, would you not go to their country and kill the dictator, in search of WoMD?
If they destroyed your ship, would you not enter WWI?

It could be quite logical to fight back, sometimes people just want to believe that there's something fishy. I used to think there was a conspiracy, but not anymore. I doubt the government would give up that much, to get little in return, unless maybe they owned those private companies, which doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Jackal]

If they destroyed your ship, would you not enter WWI?

no, no ship is ever worth a war