AoS Concepts

[Arcane]

Pretty simple really: What would you like to see in an AoS?

 

[SFilip]

A system that would ensure balance regardless of XP and hero levels.
Most (if not all) games of this type flow like this:
1. hero A manages to kill hero B, usually thanks to luck and gets plenty of XP
2. while hero B is reviving, hero A and everyone else gets plenty of time to XP from creeps
3. hero A and hero B fight again - A wins simply because he gathered enough money and XP to beat B with sheer force and thus gets even more XP
4. goto 2

Possible solutions:
-Make heroes start at max level and just let them choose the abilities, you probably want to make more abilities available than the hero can have at time if you go for this.
-Make a system that would prevent large level differences - if one hero gains level 2, disable XP for him until everyone else has level 2.
-Give XP for dying instead for killing. Same applies for money as well.

Not having permanent items is a good idea as well - limiting your map to items that have a small number of uses will make it require actual thinking instead of just getting the most expensive things. Of course there is no need to limit yourself to potions, an item that gives +10 strength for 1 minute when used is good too.
I also liked the items in AceHart's Stairway to Heaven. In it you had plenty of rather powerful "permanent" items available, but they had a time limit. For instance an item that gave you a damage boost gets removed 2 minutes after you buy it.

 

[Ninja_sheep]

a rematch system, a rebalance sytem!

 

[Arcane]

@SFilip: Yeah, that's the problem with experience. The guy with more has a major advantage, and the advantage just keep stacking. There's really no way around it without messing up the game for someone though.

- People like to build heroes, so starting at max level is not really an option.

- Why should winning disable your experience? Player's won't like that.

- Dying giving money and experience promotes commiting suicide, and that's never good.


Shorter revival times and less power difference in level difference is my current "solution".


And about non-permanent items... I tend to dislike them. Mainly because it's such a long run back to the shops, and with consumables and such you have to keep running back to re-purchase them.

Maybe if the purchase range were map wide for consumables...


@Ninja_sheep: I should have made the question: What unique concepts would you like to see in an AoS.

A rematch system is definite, but rebalancing (if what you mean is switching a hero to the other side) is crap.

 

[SFilip]

> promotes commiting suicide
If that's what makes them happy, sure.
Though the base won't defend itself when everyone is dead, will it?
You can put plenty of limits to prevent weak players from gaining too much this way:
-make them only get XP/gold if they are killed by an enemy hero (or if he assisted in killing), this will make suicides a bad idea as the enemy hero stays around to destroy the tower
-in addition to the above, you can give XP only if the killing hero is stronger
-you can disable this feature completely after a certain amount of time - XP advantage is only dangerous in the beginning
-you can gradually reduce the amount of XP heroes receive from dying

The point of killing in an AoS is not gold, XP, kill count, pissing people off or anything like that.
The point of killing is making them unable to defend their base.

This is why...
> Shorter revival times
...is a definite no.

> long run back to the shops
Be creative and this can easily be solved.
How about a portal system that allows you to spawn two destroyable gateways anywhere on the map? This way you can create one portal in the base, one somewhere in the lane you're currently storming and...

Lastly...
> messing up the game for someone though
You'll mess it up for *someone* either way.
But this way at least you get to mess it up for the ever so favored people who are "pr0s" before they even play your map.
Don't aim to make your map popular and played all the time. The sad truth is that scenario is very unlikely to happen. Aim to make it fun to play for you and your friends.

 

[Varine]

I personally have found that the majority of the AoS games have been so incrediably similar that I rarely play them.
I think if you made it more interactive (more than killing creeps and the other team with the option to hire mercanaries sometimes), like have some kind side quests or something, then it would be a little cooler.

 

[Arcane]

@SFilip: I am making it just for fun. Which is exactly why I'm arguing against the elaborate experience balancing ideas, because I don't think I'd like playing with that. (I used to think differently, but have been convinced otherwise.) I do agree however, that the point to killing heroes is to cripple their defense.

About shorter revival times: There's still the run back to the expansion, and healing. Plus, you don't want to sit around and wait half the game do you? The towers and the bases will be easily killable if nobody is there to defend it (lower health and damage than your usual towers), but the heroes revive faster.

About portals: Spells like that should be associated with certain heroes. Maybe one hero is specialized in movement. But not all heroes should have a long range portal spell... imagine a siege hero with something like that.

@Varine: Sidequests take the game's focus away from the lanes. Unless the sidequest occurs on the lanes. In which case I will need suggestions on what the sidequest is.

 

[Varine]

As I was saying, all AoS's are the same. You kill each other and some creeps so you're always focusing on the lanes. It's gets boring and repetative. I'm failing to see why you want to ensure that everyone focuses on the lanes.

 

[Sil3nt]

maybe adding in random events. Like some random invasion where a new AI race will attack both teams forcing them to take them out together, i dont know... pretty hard to make an aos unique when its pretty much all about lane control

 

[Arcane]

I'm failing to see why you want to ensure that everyone focuses on the lanes.

Answer:

...when its pretty much all about lane control

You do not (I think I've said this in, what, two topics already?) want to drag the players halfway across the map to some remote corner of the map for some stupid bonus. AoSes are about the lanes.


Er... random invasions of neutral hostile creeps don't really add much to the game in terms of strategy... why would two teams want to cooperate?

 

[Varine]

Then it's not going to be at all original and will probably just be written off as another copy of DotA because nothing is going to be setting it apart.

 

[Arcane]

There are more ways to make a map unique than "distraction"...

 

[Sil3nt]

well all ders left is pretty much new custom heroes and items =/

 

[ertaboy356b]

make an AOS with different winning objective other than destroying bases... Just my 2 cents...

 

[Arcane]

I was more hoping for suggestions like:

DoE's condition system. OR How things work in Era of War: Spirits (http:/ SLASH hilton DOT vs.oiccam.com/showthread.php?t=97130).

Unique gameplay things.

 

[waaaks!]

a neat all random system that u can share with us
(yeah i really need a neat -ar, because dota template's -ar doesnt work)

i want an aos that can be learned quickly and unique

not like those aos with spells that has 1 screen of text for every tooltip

 

[SFilip]

> hero is specialized in movement
> siege hero
This is the worst thing a map can have, especially AoS.
Good in the beginning...good later...good against units...forget all that.
Who will even take a hero "specialized in movement"? Maybe someone by accident which will most likely end with him leaving the game.
If there is a hero that can own the most (and there will be if you organize things this way) then everyone will simply take that one.

 

[Varine]

Well... maybe you could have some kind of event system (battles or something) for extra gold or experience to keep the pace up. But I don't get why you would want suggestions for things that you already seem to want, more like you just want everyone to say things that agree with you.

 

[MikeTheGuy]

- People like to build heroes, so starting at max level is not really an option.

Just something you missed, SFilip said to have more abilities available than you can actually have to use. They're still building their hero, just not leveling it up.

Anyway, I'd like to see something other than the same old mirrored setup. What I mean is, team 1's base is in the bottom left and team 2's is in the top right, and they have to run across the map. Maybe the team has x minutes at the beginning of the game to build a base at a location, and what they're trying to protect is a movable town hall.

 

[Arcane]

@SFilip: That's not really what I meant. Think of it as a "playstyle". There are more supportive heroes, there are more suicidal heroes, there are heroes that are better in one versus one situations, but are beaten badly otherwise, there are sneaky heroes, there are heroes that (if you give them the chance) will totally bomb your base. There's nothing wrong with different playstyles.

The idea about movement heroes isn't so bad really, as long as you give them something that makes them fun. Their playstyle would be to reinforce several locations at once, (mapwide teleport?), or be able to set up sieges (recall ability?).


@Varine: I didn't say I wanted anything in particular. What I said meant: instead of giving me "more custom heroes and spells", give me something that really affects gameplay in some way that makes it "different". Events are okay, but can you elaborate?


@MikeTheGuy: They are sort of building their hero, but not really. Leveling is like getting blocks. Blocks that you can piece together into what will be your hero. If you already have all the blocks, that's different. Look at all the RPGs out there, why don't they let you start at max level and just pick your build?

And what does moving bases achieve?