New Map Import System!

[Nestharus]

This has got to be by far the best thing ever devised.

Last night, I prayed to God to tell me a way to make a 1000 mb map into a 100 kb map. Today, when I woke up, I got an answer.


Imagine being able to add as many models to your map without increasing your map size by even 1 byte

Imagine adding as much terrain as you want

As many mp3 files as you want

As many dialogues as you want

Loading Screens

Mini Maps

Icons

Anything you can imagine can be done

You can make an entirely new game if you wanted to and you can put it on b.net (as long as your triggers don't go over 4 mb : P


We all know the wc3 directory and how, if you put something in the warcraft 3 directory, you can easily access and view it as long as you type it in. You don't need to import anything as long as its in your wc3 directory.

Now, what if we had a patch that included all the models on let's say hive workshop, all the icons, and all the terrain tiles. Now, for models and icons, this would be an easy global patch. For terrain, the individual player would need to change it for each game that used this feature as it has to replace current terrain files. For music, I doubt we can do all the music in the world, so the player would have to download patches for specific games to get the music files

Now, as a map maker, you will never have to import again and you can easily access all of your models. You can also put your incredible maps with extremely high definition terrain, models, etc, on b.net without any worries about long downloads. Plus, with the global patch idea, it'll be easy for a player to simply download and access all games using the system.

We'll zip all the files with their proper directories and all you have to do is unzip it into the wc3 directory.

Now, you might be thinking, how big is this file going to be? About 250 mb, lol, but it will only be a one time download. From there, we can just issue updates. If we worked hard enough, we could make an actual patch program that does auto updates for you, keeping you with all the latest models on the system. We could also include music files that maps decide to use, that way it'll do an easy update.

I've already downloaded all the models off of Hive Workshop, all of the icons, and I have a few more that weren't on there but were on wc3sear.ch

I don't have all of the ones from wc3sear.ch tho, since it's perma down.. : (

I know, hive workshop is the same as wc3search, they just don't have all the models from there :|. They don't have all the icons either.. they have like 98% tho.

I also went online and looked for models on private sites and found things like an entire Starcraft to 3D conversion.

What about thanking all of the people for their hard work on the models?

Well, since there are so many people, what maps can do is simply say they use this system

Another thing:
Maps using this system will need this system to be played

This will make players want to download this system (it's not that hard -.-)

Thus it'll increase its popularity, and high definition maps will rule warcraft 3 ^_^

Please, any comments and suggestions? : D

I've been working long and hard so far getting all the directories down. I decided to put the Starcraft conversion in its own special folder ^)^

I have a terrain folder as well. You can simply move a TerrainArt from that folder in the the directory to overwrite your terrain : )

 

[Cheddar]

It sounds like a huge project, but there are quite a few things to be noted:

~Titles of models and icons oftentimes do not reflect the icon, and may make it a pain to find.
~If the model/icon is correctly labeled and easily found, scrolling through over 1000 models would be a pain.
~This patch would have to be huge, huge, huge to download, if every model was, say, 200 kb. Over 1000 modelsx200 kb = A patch to hold over 200,000 kb of material. The costs to develop this patch may be overwhelming.
~The patch probably should not include skins.
~You would have to sort through all of these models and eliminate all corrupt textures and such.
~Models released after the patch is developed are not included.

I understand your willing to benefit the mapmaking community, and I think it is a great show of character, but I think the costs, both in time and money, would be far too much for more map space.

 

[Nestharus]

Don't see where money comes in : P

But I'm organizing all of the models as I said

Plus, I figured out what I'm going to do with the directory

It'll work like a reg RPG Game, every folder will be in the same main thing, like let's say all models will just be under models and will be labeled 1, 2, 3, 4, etc etc

Now, from there, I'll be making an Adobe Acrobot File that'll include all of the models with easy hyperlinks to go thru different areas of the thing

Let's say you click models
Then you click units
Then you browse through a list and click ones that sound neato
It'll bring up a page with a picture of the unit, description, name, etc, and it'll include the file path you need to use to use it in your map, plus it'll have an affiliated icon (link to the icon) if it has one

This will make browsing much more easier ^_^

Plus, I'm going to try and develop and installation exe that'll just install all of this easily, including the acrobat. I'll include an updater (the updater will have the main file and updates. If you don't have one of the updates, it'll auto install it that way you have all the latest models ^)^

Yes, it'll be a lot of work and it'll take a lot of time and effort, but I think it will be worth it.

If we did this, we could literally make any game we wanted in wc3

I saw some terrain textures, dodads, and units that are as good as Oblivion's environment graphics. They were made for wc3

Now, imagine applying that to our online games

It wouldn't be laggy as the models aren't imported

We could also have icons

In essence, we are creating an expansion pack for wc3

This expansion pack will be what we want it to be and will be as big as we want it to be

For Terrain, I'm going to try and find some people to do let's say, theme replacements/updates

This means, you'll be able to create detailed forests, deserts, etc. I'll try to include all environments possible

Now, for music, as I said before, that'll have to be a game patch unless I figure out a way to make it so you can submit songs and add them to updates, which really would be bad so I think I'll just let all the map makers deal with their own songs and getting players to download their patches

For my maps, and my friends maps and so on, I'll include all the music ^_^

so bleh : P, map makers can just use my custom high quality mp3 songs, which I'll start making once this is all up. yea, I'm a composer

: D

I really think that if we all worked together to make this, we could really change wc3 for the better...

Right now, wc3 has limits

We could remove many of those limits by making and implying this system ^_^

The only con to this is that the player would have to download the patch

A lot of players are lazy, but if all of the map makers decide to band together and promote this (and I fail to see why a map maker wouldn't want to be a part of this project as they get to make better maps), then players will have to download the patch so they can play the maps. If they don't, they'll just see checkered boxes instead of models ^)^

I'm asking everyone to band together

One of the first tasks I think we should do, after we get a lot of this up, is upgrade all of warcraft 3's textures (make peasants more deatailed, grunts more detailed, etc)

Replace the terrain for wc3 to allow for more variety (extremely high quality)

Upgrade all the icons

After that, we should focus on upgrading custom models

We shouldn't have crap low kb models, there's no point. With this system, we can make the models as great as we can make them. Many custom models are low quality because of current limits. With this system, they could all be at their best.

So modelers would want to be in this as well

Also, things I figured I might include in the acrobat would be programming JASS and GUI for new map makers, using the object editor, using this system, and making their own things ^)^

At one point, I'll be paying people to make extremely high quality models... not sure how much I'll be paying per model or when I'll do it, but I really believe in this project. I think we should all promote this, even the modelers. Right now, I'm like the only one on the bandwagon. There's no reason not to be a part of this...

we could revolutionize wc3

Also, with our models etc, wc3 would become one of the highest quality games in the world because we became the staff and wc3 becomes whatever game we want it to be.

Even Ladder players would appreciate the upgrades to the default wc3 units and icons... You could go in a ladder game and see those things in action

This is only one of many things I hope to implement into wc3

Systems are another big thing that can improve wc3

I saw a windows system for spawning with a little arrow to open it and lots of boxes in it. We could mod that to be a full scale inventory just like a regular MMO or RPG. It could also be used for Ladder Games

I have a combat system with unlimited capabilities that can be used in any game -.-
btw, it's also very small

There's so much that we can do to improve all the maps that exist on wc3

Imagine morale in a Ladder Game

Also, I believe I can figure out a way to get wc3 to save text files on to the computer in a given directory using this patch, meaning no more long annoying save/load codes

Atleast, I believe I can do that

However, we won't be able to link up maps. That's simply impossible

Imagine going into another map and being separated from the host. Even if you all go, it would have to start up a new map and close the old one.

You'll be out on open space, etc, it's just... a lot of work to get it to work on b.net

I mean, it's possible... but that'll have to be Blizzard who does that. I doubt we can do that ><

There are just way too many things..

Oh well : D

Please give your thoughts

 

[matt1965]

thanks,

For NOT mentioning the help me and coke did downloading 75 mb worth of
10-500 kb models :banghead: :nuts:

Where does money come into this? thats wat im not really sure about.
We already have a host site that were gunna direct off of filefront.

None of this costs money unless I charge for the work i did

And yes i no u did like 200 mb but i still helped alot

well, neverminding that.

i think ur putting alot of faith into a bunch of random modelers and map makers to join up.

how do u plan on "spreading the word"?

 

[Democratus]

A brilliant idea, yet flawed nonetheless.
Here's my only problem:
You seem to largely overestimate the power of the map-making community. First off, it's not that large in the first place, but, ignoring that, only a small proportion would be willing to put the effort into signing up for this system.

Now, to counter this, you stated that many maps would require that they have this system in order to play, to increase the popularity. In fact, I believe this would do quite the opposite. People would feel antagonized by this system, and many map-makers would fear for their map's validity and applicability.

Then, of course, is the time issue. If this idea had been created, say, two years ago, it would have been revolutionary. But it's far too close to the end of the line for WC3, since SC2 is so close to coming out and WC3 already slowly dying away, it just seems like a great idea that came far too late to make a difference.

I'm not claiming your idea to be entirely futile, I just don't think it's going to serve the purpose you want it to. For a few local things, or certain networked clan events, etc. this would be a great idea, but other than that there's no reason to make it (except you will feel like the coolest guy around knowing you did all of it).

 

[thedude]

Alright, to start it off, Nim, great idea. However, on the contrary to Demo's thoughts, I believe that if someone makes a map, such as MOSK (Only our clan will get that =/) that by not necessarily word of mouth, but by means of text, that we can get this patch to be downloaded. I would really enjoy an Anime Fight with every model imaginable. I would love to see every RPG with endless creativity (Terrain Wise). Even another Linkin Park Concert with every single song they have out. He is right, we are limited in many ways. That's why i would like to be the first to say (I think, in this thread) that i will be willing to help in any field possible to get this up and moving.

 

[Nestharus]

Warcraft 3 won't necessarily die

Did Diablo die when Diablo 2 came out?

Did Starcraft die when Warcraft 3 came out?

Did EverQuest die when EQ2 came out?

wc3 is just a different theme from Starcraft. Sure Starcraft has some extra features, but the World Editor of Warcraft 3 will pretty much let you do whatever you want to do. Starcraft 2s World Editor probably wont do much more, if it can do anymore, lol.

So Map Making wise, wc3 will still be fine

Plus, Starcraft 2 might have some limitations or might make it harder for map making, such as inventories.

And, with this innovative system, we could simply move all of Starcraft 2s things over to Warcraft 3 if we wanted to.

Now, if they do have all that warcraft 3 has and more, then yea, bleh

But that doesn't mean we still shouldn't make this

Couldn't we just move it over to Starcraft 2??

You see my point

Because it's made by the same company, and they are the same types of games, chances are that the directories are going to be close and they'll use the same model types. If they aren't close, that won't be too hard to change. If they don't use the same model types, we can convert.

So, there's no point not to do this, especially if it can be used in Starcraft 2 as well

: D

Hope this helps ^)^

 

[matt1965]

I have to say i unfortunaly agree about the 2 years ealier portion.

actualy, i wonder if we could do this from the beginning with a different game? like SC2. i personally plan on map making on SC2 as soon as it comes out. although SC2 might already have a better system. it prob doesnt and would be awesome if we did that. the only problem is SC2 has no custom made models cuz it isnt even out yet.

So if we were to do this project for SC2 i beileve we would have to wait a couple years. :banghead:

 

[Nestharus]

Read my post matt : P, lol

 

[matt1965]

I was typing that before u posted, we posted at exact same time, u just hit reply before me. so

 

[Nestharus]

Ok, I've been taking some looks at some other systems including a new inventory system and so on, and here's what I've so far decided to include in this huge path thingie ^_^

Models
Icons
mp3 high quality custom made music (by moi : P)
Guide to use it all
Full info including pics of everything
Easy to implement in map sys ^_^
Weather
Terrain upgrades
Doodads, and etc for models and textures -.-

Now on to systems:
Inventory System implmenetation (utterly incredible, but the programming for it sucks. Once I figure out how the author did it, I'll make my own version ^)^, unless he decides to fix his programming up -.-)

New Combat System (by moi : P)

Save/Load system (if I can figure out how to save to hard disk, I'll include that, but if I cannot figure out a way to disable wc3s protection, I'll include a nice save/load system that's easy to use and very very condenseful : P)

Vector System (will come with combat)

GUI/JASS Guide

How to make a good map guide

Object Editor Guide

Understanding Numbers and storing info guide


And I'll include a bunch more ^_^

According to the inventory system's author, he supposedly made it fully multiplayer compatible and his save/load system is based on saving to hard disk. I checked out the coding. It doesn't say cache anywhere in there, it actually says hard disk, so imma check it out. If it doesn't work, I'll try and figure out how to disable wc3s protection on saving from online

I'll also try and figure out a way to disable wc3s 4 mb limit. I'm sure it's there somewhere. The tile max thing might be there somewhere as well ^_^

Now, for linking maps up, that'll just be impossible. Blizzard will have to do that, and that'll still be extremely difficult. There are just too many implications with that, so I can't do that for you all, but what I can try to do is make it so you can go up to 480x480 for maps ^)^

kk, back to work I go O_O

 

[Ninja_sheep]

How do you get people installing this patch?
What will happen if people wich dont have it join a game wich uses it?

 

[Nestharus]

I'll advertise it on maps I make and ask map makers who use it to advertise it on maps they make, well, they should have to, because..

people who do not use it who try to join a map that uses it will only see checkered boxes and reg terrain. For icons, they will see green boxes. For sounds, they'll hear nothing, etc.

They won't crash, no. They will know they won't have it though ^_^

 

[Toadcop]

well it suxx =\ the author don't got needed skill.
// this forum is loading 400KB for 1 page O_O

 

[matt1965]

So, how long do u think this is gunna take u to finish?

id help but other than downloading that stuff i dunno wat to do.

so if u want more help just ask and explain it...plz

 

[Nestharus]

Well, here's what I'm going to include now:
All customs from hiveshop, fixed, etc, and extra animations
All customs from wc3campaigns
All wc3 customs from other site : P
Full Documentation including artist lists and profiles

Free Models from various professional sites

Paid for models (these are expensive but high quality, don't worry, I'm making sure they are at a max of 2000 polys. Most of them are probably 800-1000 each) ^)^

Upgraded Warcraft 3 Unit Skins (wc3 is going high def!)

 

[Romek]

This sounds awsome... if it actually works...

if it works, ill dl it asap, and advertise it like mad

 

[Nestharus]

Ok, after a lot of work, here's what the first patch has =)

The first patch is the base patch, it'll replace the war3x mpq file

Don't worry, nothing in there will be destroyed

Everything in there will be the same, I'm only adding a crap load

There is not yet documentation, kk = )

This first patch isn't even done yet, ok, it's alpha, this is just so you know I'm coming along and you can try it out. Know that you will have to download this again later. It doesn't have enough in it.

Here's what the patch contains:
114 New Music Files-
28 Are Midi Sounds (mp3 format)
86 Are High Quality Sounds (mp3 format)

16 New Loop Music Files (wav format)

Upgrades to a few terrain tiles : )

2 New Unit Models (you can see why I'm not done yet : P)

372 New Doodad Models (272 are high definition)

1 Upgraded Sky

Upgraded Fonts
Glues
UI
Etc

=)

I'll get you a download link later tonight, I can't upload it yet

Here's how it works

It'll be in a zip file
There will be the mpq patch file and an imports file

The imports file or w/e, terrain imports, contains terrain that is questionable for the patch. You have a choice of importing those into your maps, such as maybe Starcraft Terrain. I don't have enough terrain to do the theme stuff yet = ), so for now, I'm just upgrading terrain. Some of the terrain in the imports is themed, so... : P

Now, to use Units

Simply type Unit\1 to access the first model
Unit\2 to access second and so on
Easy huh?

Sound\Music\H\1 to access first high Music File
Sound\Music\L\1 to access first low music file

Doodads\1 to access first doodad

Sound\Ambient\1 to access first sound loop

I tried to keep it simple

Soon I'll have full documentation that shows all the models, icons, music files, etc, along with pics, author specs, and file paths. It'll be based off of a lot of hyperlinks, so it'll be very easy to navigate and find what you're looking for. =)

Have Fun!! (when I get this up : P)

The patch is 786 megs unzipped

 

[esb]

I wonder if this is battle.net compatible...

 

[Nestharus]

It is =), don't worry

Guess what, I just tried the new UI etc on b.net

It's really... different

The text is medieval style text

The background, instead of ice, is like a wooden table inside of a study it looks like with a red flaming candle and a closed book. Instead of the black chat screen, it's like a scroll, and you can see a lot of detail work on the edges.

It's really pretty neato =)

Btw, the zip is 787 megs

I'm uploading it right now

Check this link at about 4 am:
http://hosted.filefront.com/mazercid2

Remember, this is just a tryout patch, the actual first patch package will come out in about a week. There is still a lot I need to add to this one.

tx =)

It also appears that there are a few pathing bugs, so those will all be fixed

Remember, this is only a tryout patch, k =)

The fix should only take.. 5 seconds, but archiving it again is ganna take an hour

I'll get the finnished first patch pack up and ready next week

Have fun trying out this revolutionary stuff =)

Help me advertise this!! Get it out!!

You don't have to download this package. As I said ,this is only a demonstration of what's to come

Txtx

I'm also looking for:
Modelers

Terrain Artists

People who specialize in UI

People who have a working database program (mine's broken -.-) You can help put these models into the World Editor so we don't have to

path them anymore =)

Animators

If you can do any of those things, please send me a PM
I'm hoping to create themed tilesets for wc3, upgrade current terrain, upgrade models, and remove all armor and weps from all armors which would also require some reskinning, that way we can simply use attatchments for weps, armor, etc, and I'm also looking to make all those armor pieces and weps that are removed to be their own files, for example, the robe the Shaman wears, the Shaman helm, the shaman's claws, etc.

I also need people who can do swell Icons
There are a lot of models out there, and a lot of them don't have Icons

Before we can make new models, we need to fix and update what we already have

With all units, they all need to have certain animations, for example, multiple types of sword attacks, multiple spear attacks, bow attack, club attack, running animation, standing animations, and so on. All models need this =)

I also need voice actors! A lot of models out there don't have voices. We may also need voices for basic scenes, maybe a merchant shop, etc =)

And finally, I need someone to help write the documentation for this grand enterprise. Atm, I'm doing everything... I'm cataloguing all of the artists who made the models, music files, icons, etc... I'm creating the major document that'll give all the info for each model and make it easy to navigate so you can find what you want.

I need some help with that -.-

Tx

I can still do this alone, it just won't be as great as expected

By the way, you can also donate. There are a lot of models etc out there that cost money to use, and most of these are spectacular. I found an incredible Dragon Model for $550.00 as one example

There are lots of weapon models

Lots of Icons, art, pictures, and so forth. We don't need any money for this project, but if you decide to donate, know that we will put it to getting models, voice actors, icons, and so on : ).

Tx for your time

And, I need someone who is intimate with C++ unless I can find a good program out there. Yea, we're ganna need a patcher for this so it's easy to update. We'll probably use filefront as the main download site : ), so the patcher will just link to there, kk. It limits the size of the file to 1 gig a file, I'm sorry, but that's the best I can come up with. Atleast the download speed is pretty nice ^)^


--------
The file was interrupted last night, I'll try uploading it again tonight =)