Gaias Retaliation ORPG Alpha Release

[TideOfChaos]

Now, I doubt you are looking for feedback about the gameplay itself at this point but I think I should provide some none the less.

The game plays and looks great, everything is nice and polished and tight. But the game itself is pretty boring. Really straight forward RPG stuff, but without the wow factor. Solo play is pretty much impossible, same with small teams. You are forced into grinding. I would think if you were making your own RPG you would strive to put some unique features in it?

The game lacks some serious balance, a tank class like a Squire should have a lot more HP then mobs at his level. Most mobs have insane amounts of HPs. There is nothing wrong with this when you play with a full team, but anything less then 4 just becomes really tedious. I suggest modifying the handicaps of the mods depending on the number of players. Of course, this will require a lot of trial and error to get right, but the game will profit from it.

To be honest the game isn't really that fun as soon as you get over the fact it is a functioning oRPG map made on the Warcraft 3 engine. The game is in alpha so I suggest trying to get the gameplay solid before the map becomes to big to tune.

Aside from that, the map is impressive and has great potential and I can't wait to play it as soon as it has more content.

 

[Joccaren]

The game lacks some serious balance, a tank class like a Squire should have a lot more HP then mobs at his level.

I disagree. I have a tank squire that fights 3 creeps of the same level as him with tonnes more hp and wins. Adding more hp to him would make it almost impossible to lose with him. Part of this is the abilities that are given to heroes. Most creeps don't have abilities and those that do are easily countered by two or more squires with hateful strike and sheild slam: You just stun them any time they start casting. At level 24 with my squire going full constitution and strength, I can hit a 409 with one cast from revenge. Far more than any creep (Other than the bandit caves mage boss) ever hits. I'm also sick of the ORPGs you find everywhere where the lowest hp hero has twice the hp of creeps at their level. The lower hp adds some difficulty and interest to the game.

Also, could you make the ancient one spawn tentacles slightly more often? My group and I usually leave the one at the top of the map and have our squire and rogue kill the bottom two whilst the mage and ranger nuke the boss itself. As it has no attacks itself, it is really defenceless without the tentacles and the two tentacles pose no real challenge when fighting them and they take another 10 or so seconds to return for us to fight.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Sad how most of the comments from the last sites could be answered by just reading the thread.

It's weird, but it seems like the more people play this map, the more dumb the comments get :/

 

[vibew]

I disagree. I have a tank squire that fights 3 creeps of the same level as him with tonnes more hp and wins. Adding more hp to him would make it almost impossible to lose with him. Part of this is the abilities that are given to heroes. Most creeps don't have abilities and those that do are easily countered by two or more squires with hateful strike and sheild slam: You just stun them any time they start casting. At level 24 with my squire going full constitution and strength, I can hit a 409 with one cast from revenge. Far more than any creep (Other than the bandit caves mage boss) ever hits. I'm also sick of the ORPGs you find everywhere where the lowest hp hero has twice the hp of creeps at their level. The lower hp adds some difficulty and interest to the game.

Also, could you make the ancient one spawn tentacles slightly more often? My group and I usually leave the one at the top of the map and have our squire and rogue kill the bottom two whilst the mage and ranger nuke the boss itself. As it has no attacks itself, it is really defenceless without the tentacles and the two tentacles pose no real challenge when fighting them and they take another 10 or so seconds to return for us to fight.

ou man dann it , the game is perfect ! One the best ORPG in war 3 i have seen , me and my friends in Brazil love this game we play every night, everybody is almost lvl 25. We can't wait for the update

@Zwiebelchen thanks a lot man you revolutionized the rpg in war 3. Congratulations xD.And be strong man we in Brazil support you ;p:thup:

 

[TpM]

1. Learn to read.
2. Wait 4 the update.

No i mean the visitor and higher

 

[Reconcile]

Sad how most of the comments from the last sites could be answered by just reading the thread.

It's weird, but it seems like the more people play this map, the more dumb the comments get :/

These is easily explainable! The general populace of people who play WC3 are now learning about this ORPG. Prior to this (And much like the life cycle of products in the modern world), the only people who played it / knew about it were the "innovators", meaning people who look in to, research and find new and up-and-coming products (Or in this case, ORPG's), and are generally intelligent, ambitious and critiquing and analytical.

Now that the game is entering the "growth" stage, the more "common folk" are finding out about it / playing it, and they, once again, generally, do not have the same.. intellect (In regards to "useful and intelligent comments and feedback") as the innovators.. so, welcome to the life cycle of a Warcraft3 ORPG

This is, of course, all in my opinion, and many people may disagree, but I've seen it happen time and time again.. why do you think so many morons play Twilight's Eve !

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Hmm ... I tried to find out how exactly hostbots work, but the moderators didn't allow me to ask that question in the forums:
http://www.thehelper.net/forums/showthread.php?t=142790

Without any help, I can not fix the desync/disconnect issues with hostbots. Sorry for that.

 

[ChannelKnark]

Now, I doubt you are looking for feedback about the gameplay itself at this point but I think I should provide some none the less.

The game plays and looks great, everything is nice and polished and tight. But the game itself is pretty boring. Really straight forward RPG stuff, but without the wow factor. Solo play is pretty much impossible, same with small teams. You are forced into grinding. I would think if you were making your own RPG you would strive to put some unique features in it?

The game lacks some serious balance, a tank class like a Squire should have a lot more HP then mobs at his level. Most mobs have insane amounts of HPs. There is nothing wrong with this when you play with a full team, but anything less then 4 just becomes really tedious. I suggest modifying the handicaps of the mods depending on the number of players. Of course, this will require a lot of trial and error to get right, but the game will profit from it.

To be honest the game isn't really that fun as soon as you get over the fact it is a functioning oRPG map made on the Warcraft 3 engine. The game is in alpha so I suggest trying to get the gameplay solid before the map becomes to big to tune.

Aside from that, the map is impressive and has great potential and I can't wait to play it as soon as it has more content.

This is probably the best feedback regarding this map ever revealed in this thread.

It feels very weird that you require so many players, while the max number of players for one session of a game is 8. It tends to get kind of tedious.

Leveling should be solo-able, while dungeons, bosses and other of its sort uses groups to be completed. Not being able to level without a healer, a tank, and a damage dealer (where all know fairly how to play) is just crap for an ORPG.

Regarding the balance yeah: I would pick a mage damager above a thief damager any day, because they simply can do more burst and have an overall easier control over their damage output.

Else all is pretty much good, yeah, one of the better ORPGs out there.

Sincerely, ChannelKnarken

 

[Joccaren]

No i mean the visitor and higher

You post more replies to threads or create more threads. This was the wrong area to ask this.

This is probably the best feedback regarding this map ever revealed in this thread.

It feels very weird that you require so many players, while the max number of players for one session of a game is 8. It tends to get kind of tedious.

Leveling should be solo-able, while dungeons, bosses and other of its sort uses groups to be completed. Not being able to level without a healer, a tank, and a damage dealer (where all know fairly how to play) is just crap for an ORPG.

Regarding the balance yeah: I would pick a mage damager above a thief damager any day, because they simply can do more burst and have an overall easier control over their damage output.

Else all is pretty much good, yeah, one of the better ORPGs out there.

Sincerely, ChannelKnarken

You don't really need so many players. I'm usually left with anywhere between 2 and 4 people in the map as people leave after game start for unknown reasons and we still manage to beat everything.

For most of my gaming time in Gaias, I've had to solo. I'll admit it is very tedious as it takes forever to level up enough to take on the stuff that will finish you your quests but you just need a little patience. It can be done. It is really quite easy to level once you reach lvl 3, then you just keep killing the wolves until lvl 6 before moving onto the spiders. You just need a little skill to play. Once you reach levels around 10, you start needing a group, even a small one, as this is an area where the basic creeps give little to no xp and the other creeps you can't solo. You just need a tiny bit of patience to level, like in most games. Dungeons are the only things you need groups for (Other than the trading route when your below lvl 18).

Also, the mage damager is balanced with the theive damager in terms of its mana. The theif can keep using its spells over and over with little or no mana cost (I haven't played the theif in a while so I'm not sure which one of those is correct: Little or No) whilst the mage can quickly run out of mana without mana potions. Whilst unnoticable in multiplayer as the other group members keep the creeps from returning to base and fully healing whilst you get your mana back, in solo, if you run out of mana in a fight and you still haven't killed one of the creeps, you're better off not trying to kill that camp as you have to run to get your mana back and when you run, the creeps fully heal and return to base.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

It feels very weird that you require so many players, while the max number of players for one session of a game is 8. It tends to get kind of tedious.

You do not require "so many players" to play this map. All outdoor-content can be done with only 2 players. Outdoor-Bosses are balanced for 3 players and Dungeons are balanced for 4 players.
If you are not able to beat the outdoor content with only 2 players (3 for bosses), you seriously should reconsider your strategy.

Leveling should be solo-able, while dungeons, bosses and other of its sort uses groups to be completed. Not being able to level without a healer, a tank, and a damage dealer (where all know fairly how to play) is just crap for an ORPG.

No, it's not "crap". This map is not intended for solo play. Period. If you don't like it, go play something else. I play Bnet games (and ORPGs) for the social aspect. If I wanted to play alone, I'd play a cool story-based solo rpg campaign - because that's what they're there for.
A multi rpg is a multi rpg because it is meant to be played as a group.

Regarding the balance yeah: I would pick a mage damager above a thief damager any day, because they simply can do more burst and have an overall easier control over their damage output.

Damage of Thief and Magician is pretty balanced out. If your thief does less damage than your mage on the same level, then you probably have bad equipment on your thief.

The game plays and looks great, everything is nice and polished and tight. But the game itself is pretty boring. Really straight forward RPG stuff, but without the wow factor. Solo play is pretty much impossible, same with small teams. You are forced into grinding.

Tell me: Where are you forced to grinding? You can reach level 20-22 just by doing all the existing quests without problems. Do you even know what grinding means?
If you think the game is boring ... well ... that's your oppinion. Then again, I don't know what exactly you are expecting from an rpg.

I would think if you were making your own RPG you would strive to put some unique features in it?

Like what? Again; what are you expecting from a warcraft III orpg?

 

[ChannelKnark]

"You don't really need so many players."

As cleric I have no problem with the first bosses (soloing), and with a decent tank (level 8+) we can run through The Bandits Cave. But lets face it - if I am to fully geek this, I will have to find another geek to tank in the Forgotten Ones cave - I've hosted non-stop for a week this map, and without result.

I'm stuck where I am because the mapmaker decided to make it a group map - most likely perfect for LAN, but for a casual internet gamer this will be the worst kind of map.

"...but you just need a little patience."

- it's not a question of patience but a question of quality and structure of map. A role playing game where you can't tend to your own character alone in your own way - well, it's just silly.

While I agree that you should need a group for higher challenges, I cannot say I like the whole "go around in group" part. An ORPG is after all about having a nice character you yourself own and have spent time on - it's not a group quest. Or shouldn't be, at least.



End point being, no matter how you slice it, a game is funnier with more variation to it: adding solo-able parts would be a huge variable of variation.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Soloing is essencial for MMORPG, where you do not have a group right from start. However, Warcraft III RPGs are different, because of the way hosting works.
When you start the map, you start together with like 4 or 5 other people (at least if you do not close all the player slots). It's absolutely no problem to find one guy that hangs out with you.

I hosted this map like 10 times the last days and ALWAYS got a group. And no, I did not start out from level 1 every time. Most of the players at the bnet got a nice selection of characters to load from. If you were never able to find someone playing with you ... well ... that's sad.

There are other maps that were made for solo play. This map requires teamplay and I do not see why this is a problem. You're at the bnet for a reason. Get other people. It's more fun with a group anyways. If you do not like to be forced to teamplay, then just play something else.

 

[ChannelKnark]

I agree it's different. But lets face it: this map isn't huge enough to provide enough people for enough games to progress in an alright speed.

A map is so much smaller than a complete game, and while I agree its a very good ORPG, it can't really compete (in number of players) to other complete non-wc3 RPGS.

It's not fully released either, so finding people at "max level" is hard - not so many geek this one.

I see what you mean with teamwork - that's probably why its better than the most.

But as I said before: no matter how you slice it, variation is the best source of interest.

You should definitely add a few things to do solo. You also stated in your introduction post that it's extremely hard without cleric and squire: thats kind of limiting, is it not?

I like the idea, but I think it needs a whole bit of revamping.

PS: For a cleric, their passive abilities read: "Weapon type:Staff", without space in between. Thought I'd might tell you this, no offense ;>

 

[AGrimDeath]

I believe the group aspect makes this map unique. In almost all other ORPGs I have played, most people are extremely high level. When asked upon how they got so high, most reply, "I left my computer on for a few hours," or something of that sort. Sure, there are "timers" now that prevent that, but most ORPGs are favored towards soloing.

Bnet is about socializing, so why ignore the socializing aspect?

 

[ChannelKnark]

Bnet is about socializing, so why ignore the socializing aspect?

Thats a huge assumption or either bad choice of words - I really enjoy socializing and have no problem with it.

I never implied that you should rid the game of its group aspect and turn it all solo, just that there should be a few things you can do yourself - add variation to it, as said.

Your considerably social,
ChannelKnarken

 

[burnt19]

Quotes from Channelknark

I agree it's different. But lets face it: this map isn't huge enough to provide enough people for enough games to progress in an alright speed.

If you didn't notice, the map is under development.

A map is so much smaller than a complete game, and while I agree its a very good ORPG, it can't really compete (in number of players) to other complete non-wc3 RPGS.

Do you really expect any wc3 rpg map to compete with full games?

It's not fully released either, so finding people at "max level" is hard - not so many geek this one.

It's not fully released... exactly. hmm, I don't know. Maybe wait till it exits beta stage?

But as I said before: no matter how you slice it, variation is the best source of interest.

Its only in beta development, and in the next patch ten sub classes are coming out...

 

[WindAngel]

I actually have to agree on the little bit on soloing. I host this game pretty often on Garena, and only a few people are actually level 10-20. Most poeple who join from level 1-10, they complain how hard it is, and then quit. I think, personally, that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a level 21 solo thief to level up past level 21. I am a level 21 thief, and I cant even solo a level 12 boar. I think that there should be a little bit balancing on leveling, since warriors can level much easier than thieves (without a doubt as they can tank, and do damge, and with pots they just wont die).

Another thing I would like to issue, is the boringness of priests. Every priest i have played with have said that priest is undoubtly the most boring class that exists so far, therefore they end up choosing another class. This leads to the fact that there is no healer, and so we can't do many dungeons, and leads to harder training. To be honest, I think that dungeons should stay the same. There is no point of doing such dungeons without the complexity of needing to stun on time with a thief, or the need for a healer, and that its easy for any class to solo, however I think there should be a massive nerf on creeps, so that people who are higher levels than others that are not squires nor priests can actually independantly level up.

~Win~Dangel

 

[Jming]

Well, if your talking about soloing, i must say it is a must till a fixed level. E.g. All classes are capable to solo most mobs except for mobs higher than level 12 etc
If not, give easy leveling from lvl 1-10, it can solve the problem. People would tend to start to play gaias

 

[ChannelKnark]

Quotes from Channelknark
Do you really expect any wc3 rpg map to compete with full games?

It's not fully released... exactly. hmm, I don't know. Maybe wait till it exits beta stage?

Its only in beta development, and in the next patch ten sub classes are coming out...

The only reason I made a comparison of this map with an external full game was because someone else already made references and associations with MMORPGs as a whole, not because I expected anything.

I'm here to provide feedback and opinions, where more or less can be incorrect or unprofessional. You don't have to argue over my opinions - you can instead explain your own, and make a valid reason of why it should be in a certain way.

So yeah - beta version, not fully released, etcetera etcetera: guess why I'm here? It's a lot easier changing things before you start making new areas and mobs.

If my feedback or opinion as a player of the map is not welcome, you can simply tell me so.

Back to my main point (which seem so hard to get through to other people): variation adds interest. It's funnier with ten heroes rather than five. I can't see the problem in making some elements solo-able. Maybe the map maker already had that in mind: class quests? special areas? Maybe not.

That's my 5 cent at least.

 

[ChannelKnark]

Well, if your talking about soloing, i must say it is a must till a fixed level. E.g. All classes are capable to solo most mobs except for mobs higher than level 12 etc
If not, give easy leveling from lvl 1-10, it can solve the problem. People would tend to start to play gaias

It doesn't matter if the mobs themselves are solo-able or not: if you don't get any experience, you can't level up, and therefor a creeps level being 1 or 10 is irrelevant.