Getting started...

[Rob.Haven]

I'm obviously new to all of this, so there are some things I need help with.

First, I've seen a ton of really incredible tutorials. The modeling tutorial, specifically, is very well done. What I *haven't* found is a tutorial for people who are starting out from scratch. I have a bunch of questions that I can't find answers to in any tutorials. What is cJass and vJass and how do they differ from Jass? What is EGUI? How come the parts of a skin are all jumbled up when they're not on a model? [I have a ton of others, too.]
I realize that these questions are extremely elementary to most of you, but I'm less than 24 hours into deciding that I wanted to do some modding - I don't understand a lot of what I'm reading. If you could just point me to a "read this if you know nothing" tutorial, it would be greatly appreciated.

Second, I'm a pretty smart guy. Creative, too. I am taking to script writing kind of fast and I feel like I have some really good ideas. What I don't have is a single ounce of artistic talent. I showed my girlfriend the cat I drew in GMax; she thought it was a poorly drawn dragon that "looks like it might have down-syndrome." The worst part is that it actually had come out a lot better than any of my previous drawings. My question, to be frank, is: how screwed am I since I can't draw?

Lastly, kudos to the guys running these contests (board game, tower, etc). I saw some posts that weren't thrilled with the contests, but I see them as a fantastic means to push the envelope a bit. Who knows what kind of incredible map/game/whatever ideas might come from an idea being submitted. If nothing else, it'll keep everyone on their toes.

thanks,
- Rob

 

[death_knight]

It's good that you're on board! Always good to have another map-maker with us.

I can't tell you anything about JASS because I personally don't use it. But, considering you are just starting out with this stuff, I recommend that for triggers and stuff, you begin by using GUI and then once you've got the hang of that, you can move on into JASS. I think it would make it a whole lot easier because then you can be pretty sure and if not, you can at least refer to the GUI.

Unfortunately there are no "Read if You Know Nothing" tutorials, but if you read up on all the basic tutorials and introductions of which I'm sure there's at least a few, then you should be fine.

I also recommend that you look at other people's unprotected maps, just so you can see how certain things are triggered. You can also extract the campaign maps using an MPQ extractor because the campaign maps are very good. Also remember that any questions or help topics you have you can always post here. Be careful though; people don't like it when you steal their stuff!

You're inability to draw won't affect you much unless you're designing graphics and models. If you don't improve, you can always request someone make it for you, because I'm sure that someone out there will volunteer their help.

Also, with the competitions, I do strongly encourage you to enter because it is fun and rewarding in more ways that one; including the satisfaction of doing it and the experience and skills you gain from doing it.

I hope my advise helps!

Happy Map Making!

 

[SineCosine]

I can't tell you anything about JASS because I personally don't use it. But, considering you are just starting out with this stuff, I recommend that for triggers and stuff, you begin by using GUI and then once you've got the hang of that, you can move on into JASS. I think it would make it a whole lot easier because then you can be pretty sure and if not, you can at least refer to the GUI.

No, dive straight into Jass.
Don't start GUI at all, it is poison!

There are tutorials on the Jass section of this site! xD

 

[cleeezzz]

GUI is the graphical user interface for JASS, basically, user friendly, if you are unfamiliar with writing code, you should probably start with GUI. EGUI is like an add-on which provides more functions to GUI and make it easier for GUI users.

vJASS is basically like an extension of JASS and allows more flexibility
cJASS is (correct me if im wrong) like vJASS that follows more of a C syntax

I dont have art skill either, you can download models or request them

>SineCosine, it really depends on how experienced he is with scripting (in any language), to me, starting with JASS with no background information of scripting is extremely hard. Even with tutorials (GUI to JASS tutorials are probably the easiest)

 

[SineCosine]

I did not have any programming knowledge to begin with either ._.
I just stayed up and spent 8hours of my life reading and re-reading all the tutorials in that little Jass section to learn whatever it is I know now xD

I remember someone saying to not start on GUI at all..
So..

Yea, I didn't.

 

[Rob.Haven]

I greatly appreciate all of the replies. Sounds like the consensus is to start with GUI; I'll give that a shot.

I'll leave skinning/modeling alone for now, but I'm still curious - why the hell is a skin so jumbled up when it's not on the model? It just looks like there are random pieces to the model all over the place. How is it determined which piece is applied where on the model?

 

[SineCosine]

@Rob
I'm pretty sure, if you ask in the Jass section, most of your replies would tell you to start with Jass xD

 

[Anachron]

Please, for the love of god, don't use GUI. I Used it 5 years and.. Well, it was a waste of time.

Start from JASS, learn the syntax, check the examples, read tutorials, etc.

 

[death_knight]

GUI is NOT poison, and it is NOT a waste of time. I've used it since I bought the game when it came out, and I've used it to make a hell of a lot of good triggers that work well. There is no problem with it.

And yes Rob, do start with GUI: hell of a lot easier!

 

[SineCosine]

Yes, you can make pretty triggers with GUI.
But it's simply easier with Jass.

MUI/MPI/SUI is all easily done with Jass.
And there is a problem with GUI =/

It's mostly slow and buggy, to me.
And using GUI is leaky =(

I hate leaks and slows =/
I have yet to see a system made in GUI, as in, a real system like the ones J4L has made. xD

Jass gives you more control over what you're going to do with the game, imo.
I've tried using GUI, hella' slower than typing.

 

[Anachron]

GUI may be easier for the beginning, but switching to JASS (which you will need, sooner or later) will be a pain in the ass because you have the GUI stuff in your head.

Don't listen to GUI users, learn vJass, you will be amazed what nice things you can do with vJass which you can't in GUI.

 

[canons200]

well, please don't a have war between start to use GUI or start to use JAss first. It is people satisfaction to use gui OR jass.

If you find out GUI suit you, that is. If you find out JASS suit, that is. For myself, i find out GUI suit me, that is.

 

[Anachron]

All people think that from the start, including me.
But sooner or later when you are getting better, GUI just seems not to fit your conditions at all and you want to make more and better.

At least then you have to learn vJass.

 

[SineCosine]

all people think that from the start, including me.
But sooner or later when you are getting better, gui just seems not to fit your conditions at all and you want to make more and better.

At least then you have to learn vjass.

qft

 

[Andyoyo]

Learning World Editor is frustrating there is not a ground zero level but when I first started best tutorials are right here on thehelper and learning curve is slow and annoying tbh!

http://world-editor-tutorials.thehelper.net/starthere.php

Try to go through at least half these tutorials you see on tab even if you know most of them it is great help xD

 

[canons200]

Learning World Editor is frustrating there is not a ground zero level but when I first started best tutorials are right here on thehelper and learning curve is slow and annoying tbh!

it reminds me. When i first started, i edited other people map, added cheat and etc. But later on, i never did it, because by doing so, it had no more challenge, and on the other hand, editing other people's map. Still that is other people's map. Not your own map. By that time, i learnt a lot WE skill through editing, then i start to make my own map, until now...............................start to help some newbie on WE

 

[DuelPlayer]

it reminds me. When i first started, i edited other people map, added cheat and etc. But later on, i never did it, because by doing so, it had no more challenge, and on the other hand, editing other people's map. Still that is other people's map. Not your own map. By that time, i learnt a lot WE skill through editing, then i start to make my own map, until now...............................start to help some newbie on WE

Same Hi-fives

 

[death_knight]

SineCosine & Anachron:

Why do I get the sense you're having a go at GUI purely because you don't use it?

I'm not saying JASS is bad, and I will respect you whether you use GUI or JASS, but just because you don't use it doesn't mean it's bad. For example, you don't see me saying JASS is bad; I mean in my first post on this topic, I even recommended using it eventually; and I use GUI!!!

So quit saying that GUI is crap, and be a little bit more open to its use.

And just because there are no good systems written in GUI, it doesn't mean it can't be done!

 

[Sui-cookie]

: P this are getting pretty hostile here huh?

well, i started mapping in almost 6 years ago, and i personally use gui. True, Gui is limited in some aspects, but its all about what your comfortable with. A lot of the things gui is limited in, most people dont use anyway... and leaks can always be fixed
easily remember various commands, like html? then jass is probably the way to go
just mapping for fun, and not really doing it constantly? then i would probably use gui

and yeah, when i first started, i used that very website to learn what i did :]
http://world-editor-tutorials.thehelper.net/starthere.php
its an amazing website that will take you into a lot of what you need to know. the rest is just experience Good luck, and remember, if you ever have a problem someone here on the helper will be glad to do there best to try and help you ^^

P.s after the basics, just play with the editor. Mess with things in the object editor, get a feel for how warcraft works. It'll be fun along the way ^^

P.s.s its always nice to have someone learn about the editor, and understand what other people do with it, and realize how much doesn't actually make it into warcaft. There is some incredible stuff laying around on the internet, but never put to good use. Its like the editor community is an entirely different thing than the game xD

 

[death_knight]

Sui-Cookie, I totally agree, what you've said, in my opinion, is totally correct. I just don't appreciate GUI being called crap because people don't use it.