WIP War of the Ancients (WotA)

[KeresPup]

Yes, I know what you're all thinking: "Not another DotA ripoff". But please read at least what I have in mind.

{ War of The Ancients }
A map combining the elements of AoS, Arena and Progressive RPG with a system that allows players to create their own custom Hero/Unit. Set with the timeline and setting of the Defense of the Ancients. A battle between the mighty Sentinels and the fearsome Scourge.


Introduction
WotA is a WIP map that is planned to be somehow a ‘full-scale’ version of DotA, wherein players are allowed more customization of the heroes, and even the troops themselves. A number of battlefields instead of lanes - symbolizing the war between the Sentinel and the Scourge more than a brawl between the heroes.

Here, players’ heroes are saved in the form of a code when a battle is decided. Henceforth allowing them to continue to play with their hero for any other battle by loading them at the start, instead of their hero ending with the game and having to start from scratch once again.

Players will experience the brutality of the war itself as they will begin not as heroes but as the very soldiers in the battlefield, ‘creeps’ if you might call it. Through gaining experience, along with rewards, will they be promoted into Heroes.

Players will also be able to decide the stat growth of their unit/hero, allowing even more customization.


Features​

Save/Load System

Spoiler

With the end of each game, savecodes are presented to each player (only they can see it).

They can use these savecodes to continue using the Hero they finished with for the next game they play.

Players are allowed to load their heroes 1 minute before the game starts.

Player “Creep” Max Level: 10

Spoiler

Players that are just starting or at least do not load their saved heroes start off as ‘soldier’ units, or ‘creeps’ as what it’s commonly known as. While as a creep, you will be fighting other creeps or the neutral creeps, Until you reach Level 10 wherein you can change into a hero unit. Player Creeps unlike regular creeps have stats, the growth of which is decided on by the player. All Player Creeps will start with the “Strength” attribute. This will be changed when he advances to “Hero”. Creep type is decided at the beginning of the game, whether they are melee or ranged. This however can be changed upon entering “Hero” phase.

Customized Heroes

Spoiler

When a player ‘creep’ unit reaches Level 10, he can advance to the next level of the game by becoming a ‘Hero’ unit. The Hero unit’s main attribute will depend on the highest attribute that the ‘creep’ unit has. The player is also given the chance to select a new Hero Body/Model (which also decides whether the Hero will be ranged or melee). The Bodies/Models made available to the player depends on its main attribute.

Player “Hero” Max Level: 100

Spoiler

As a “Hero” leveling is continued with stat growth still being player controlled. Players can now access battlefields and fight there; they can now also carry items and equipment with them. Heroes start with absolutely no skills or abilities at all. However by going to ‘schools’ within the inner base, they can learn skills and abilities, each ability and skill however has certain restraints, such as ranged abilities can only be learned by ranged units. Magic however can be learned by all. Another way to gain skills and abilities is by constantly killing a certain Neutral Creep. If you keep on killing a certain type of Neutral Creep, there is a chance that you will be able to learn a skill available only from that type of Neutral Creep.

Protection System

Spoiler

Player “Creeps” cannot be attacked by attack Player “Heroes” and vice versa. Player “Heroes” are allowed to fight other Player “Heroes” only when they have at most a 20 Level Gap, or if the lower level hero will type the “-unprotect” command. This removes the protection from them throughout the duration of the game.

However, Heroes can attack and can be attacked by the opposing side’s generic creeps and towers regardless of level. Generic Creeps and Towers will prioritize in attacking higher level generic creeps or player Heroes, hence they won’t attack low level heroes immediately, unless if that hero is alone.

High Level Neutral Units will not be aggressive towards Heroes that are 20 levels lower, unless they are attacked.

Base and Battlefields System

Spoiler

For each faction, there is 1 base, which also has an ‘inner-base’ which the opposing faction can never enter. On each base lies of course, the World Tree for the Sentinel, and the Frozen Throne for the Scourge. The same as DotA, the goal would be to destroy the opposing base’s ‘heart’.

What separates War of the Ancients from DotA is that instead of having a number of lanes for battle and just a number of shops with pre-existing items, WotA’s ‘inner-bases’ will contain RPG-like elements such as a healer to replace the fountain, vendors that sell equipment and usable items and ‘schools’ which teach skills and magic.

The battlefields are separated into 3 for each faction, with the design based on the 3 “lanes” - Diagonal, Vertical and Horizontal battlefields. However, these battlefields are connected, and you can go from one to the other by passing through either the Forest Areas or the River Areas. These are the “Main” battlefields. Player “creeps” cannot enter these areas, they are only allowed to enter the Neutral Creeps areas (Forest and River Areas) to be accompanied by generic creeps from their side engaging both the neutral creeps and of course enemy player and generic creeps.

Rank System

Spoiler

Hero units have ranks (whereas creep units do not). Rank increases depending on the number of (successful/completed) games that you have joined. Rank affects the experience and gold gained, as well as affects the number of Troop units you control.

Hero units always start as “Lieutenants” which gives 0% bonus experience and 0% gold.

Achievements System

Spoiler

When a Hero unit achieves a goal, or rather fulfills a certain condition, he will gain an achievement. Achievements are like passive skills, which give the Hero a bonus depending on what Achievement he has gained.

For example, if a Hero unit has successfully killed a number of Hero units for the entirety of all the games he has played, he will gain the “Slayer” achievement, which gives him a certain buff, say like, +% damage to Hero units.

The Hero’s Rank itself is an achievement, however, it does not affect the hero but it affects the troop that it commands.

Dynamic Gameplay

Spoiler

Depending on the highest level Hero that is loaded before the game starts, the gameflow will be affected. For example, if there is no hero loaded, then all the buildings, battlefield creeps, towers and the base cores (WT and FT) will start at their default level and no high level Neutral Creeps will appear early in the Forest and River areas. However, if for example a level 30 Hero is loaded, certain things will be affected such as the towers and the battlefield creeps will become stronger, at most 10 levels lower than the highest level hero and Neutral creeps up to 10 levels higher than the highest level hero will be available (Roshan however will remain available no matter what, his level is always 100).

If there is no Hero on 1 side and there is on the other, a generic computer controlled hero will be available until a player on that side will gain a Hero Unit. The generic hero unit will have a random level, ranging from 10 to 5 levels lower than the highest level hero unit loaded.

Troop System

Spoiler

The Troop System enables the Hero to hire an amount of generic units that he can control, the number of units allowed for the troop depends on your Rank. Troop units when hired always start at 10 Levels lower than you (Level 1 if the hero is Level 10 or below). However they benefit from the aura that the Achievement of your current Rank gives.

Note: Troop units cannot be saved as they are only generic.

This Project is Currently Only at PLANNING phase.
It will be much appreciated if people will contribute ideas and such. When the base PLAN is finished, a team may be needed to implement this. But until then, let's just plan more.

Hmmm, I may be missing out on some descriptions and details, so I'll probably be adding more later on. Since this is simply still in planning phase, I cannot provide screenshots (DUH!) however I will provide illustrations once available on certain aspects of the planned map.

Please do comment and give me your feedback about this planned map.

Questions are very much welcome :3

 

[Sirroelivan]

Sounds interesting, but the save-load code should just be used so players can remake the same hero, but not at the same level because otherwise you have the situation of lvl 10's going vs lvl 1's.

 

[KeresPup]

Sounds interesting, but the save-load code should just be used so players can remake the same hero, but not at the same level because otherwise you have the situation of lvl 10's going vs lvl 1's.

Hmmm, that seems to be a problem.
This is practically why I'm looking for feedback and comments, so we can look into it and come up with solutions.



I planned on having the save/load code be namespecific (in other words, it only works for a certain person).

If your name when you first played was kerespup, the code that will be generated will be integrated in a way that works with that name. In the next game if you try to load the code, only kerespup can load that otherwise it won't load. This would work for Battle.net or Garena, however in pubs, this would mean it's a free choice.

 

[Siretu]

Seems like you've really given some thought to this thread. Keep it up!

 

[Larcenist]

A simple sollution could be to enable the first player (mostly the host) to enable/disable save/load as a gamemode.

 

[KeresPup]

Seems like you've really given some thought to this thread. Keep it up!

Any ideas or comments? If you have any please do post them :3
Questions? I'll answer them :3

 

[Siretu]

Any ideas or comments? If you have any please do post them :3
Questions? I'll answer them :3

Not really >.< I'm to tired to think of such things.

 

[KeresPup]

A simple sollution could be to enable the first player (mostly the host) to enable/disable save/load as a gamemode.

Solution to what? And Hmmm, that's actually not a bad idea. A gamemode wherein save and load are disabled... hmmm

 

[staskax]

another dota rip off

 

[KeresPup]

another dota rip off

Apparently, you never did read it entirely. If you have nothing productive to say. Please, say nothing.

 

[Jolly chap*]

another dota rip off

Dude, you are officially a loser. An epic failure of a loser. Perhaps you are just jealous that KeresPup is actually trying to make a map? Unlike you.

@ KeresPup: ignore him. Anyway, your map seems really worth trying out. Though, you think an AI will ever be implemented? It looks really complicated, what with the customization and all.

 

[KeresPup]

Dude, you are officially a loser. An epic failure of a loser. Perhaps you are just jealous that KeresPup is actually trying to make a map? Unlike you.

@ KeresPup: ignore him. Anyway, your map seems really worth trying out. Though, you think an AI will ever be implemented? It looks really complicated, what with the customization and all.

If you read the part about the battlefields gameplay.

It has something about an AI/Computer Controlled hero that will act as counter measure to enemy heroes if there is no hero on that side.

You can play solo (Single Player) but EXP will be reduced greatly.

EXP is higher if it's full house (5 on 5)

 

[Flare]

Solution to what? And Hmmm, that's actually not a bad idea. A gamemode wherein save and load are disabled... hmmm

Solution to the problem of one team loading all their heroes, and the other team being left at level 1.

Overall, sounds fairly interesting, but a save-load code in an AoS/Arena? Seems like a fairly shaky idea to me >_>

 

[KeresPup]

Solution to the problem of one team loading all their heroes, and the other team being left at level 1.

Overall, sounds fairly interesting, but a save-load code in an AoS/Arena? Seems like a fairly shaky idea to me >_>

Ahh!

Now I see. I may have misinterpreted what Sirroelivan told me.

I thought he was telling me about a bunch of people loading the same code to load the same Hero.

============================

Actually, that's one of the issues I'm trying to find a way to deal with. I did think about Automatic Team Balancing, however that's just an idea.

Also, the only time that a Save-Load code would be annoying in an AoS/Arena would be if you could -Save or -Load anytime.

The save codes here are only available when the game is finished. Loading is only allowed during the first minute of the game.

Think of it as those online games you see like Gunbound, GunZ, etc. Wherein it's an arena where there are both high level players and low level players.

 

[MurderMode]

IF this is to be a competitive game like it's inspiration, then a save/load code won't work. All it will do is distance the players and cripple the interest of more then a select few actually playing this on a regular basis, which will in turn alienate those players from the rest of the custom community and force them back into the mainstream. All competitive maps should start each player at square one, and allow their ingame choices to be the prominent factor in deciding the flow of the game, and eventually victory or defeat.

As far as I can see, making players start as creep units has no real value and doesn't add anything worthwhile to the genre. In a sense they will still be more then an ordinary creep unit, so why not just make them a hero to begin with? Making them non-attackable by hero units doesn't make sense logically either.

Ranking is worthless in a competitive game, it's only useful in co-op. Everyone loves to play with someone who is ahead of them.... but noone likes to play against an unfair advantage.

About the only useful idea you have had is the achievement system, providing it relies on conditions possible in the current game and not on conditions met and saved after multiple games. To give someone benefits ingame for achieving specific goals is a good idea, but ofcourse it will create alot of trouble for you when balancing.. so as not to give certain heroes a massive advantage for completing a certain achievement (eg. if there was a good reward for a hero making a certain amount of hits on a target, agility heroes would have an advantage in that area). People pick up on all these kind of things, and they will find the easiest and most beneficial reward within a couple of matches... which will completely throw the game out of balance and prevent any new player from finding interest in your game.

You should rethink your project before you go any further, because alot of your ideas have the potential to turn all your effort into dust.

 

[bountygiver]

Actually, that's one of the issues I'm trying to find a way to deal with. I did think about Automatic Team Balancing, however that's just an idea.

Also, the only time that a Save-Load code would be annoying in an AoS/Arena would be if you could -Save or -Load anytime.

The save codes here are only available when the game is finished. Loading is only allowed during the first minute of the game.

Think of it as those online games you see like Gunbound, GunZ, etc. Wherein it's an arena where there are both high level players and low level players.

Competitive type maps with Save/Load functions don't usually work out well, as the in-game advantages of more experienced players is very likely to put newbies away from the game. Unless you do it like Gunz as you said, which gives each player a lose/win profile system instead of distinct in-game advantages.

 

[thewrongvine]

The name should really change, even if it is made purposely for the fact that people will think that it is a dota-ripoff, which I doubt it is.

I agree with MurderMode, these fast-paced (not neccesarily meaning a quick-ending game) that are competetive with a lot of live people don't work well with loaded things that will affect the gameplay in balance issues. It would be unfair to a new person just starting.
Maybe loaded ranks that just show how good you are, or a few "Class Items" that go with your hero but aren't like rigged stats, that would be fine.

Good luck! :thup: Nice thread.

EDIT: 100 levels is quite a lot... I personally don't like past 50 levels in a Warcraft map unless it is like an RPG-type map.

 

[Pettunia]

I think a lot of people like to give ideas about heroes able to learn skills from schools or something special.

Sometimes I wonder, what is so special about it? Why not just make the heroes have skills to learn in the beginning? If you want to make players able to personalize their heroes, why not let items do the job? Make some items have abilities?
Just my opinion

 

[KeresPup]

I think a lot of people like to give ideas about heroes able to learn skills from schools or something special.

Sometimes I wonder, what is so special about it? Why not just make the heroes have skills to learn in the beginning? If you want to make players able to personalize their heroes, why not let items do the job? Make some items have abilities?
Just my opinion

:3 Because Allowing Customization of Skills also helps in increasing the personification / differentiation of that Hero. Items are quite limited, to 6 slots no doubt. Plus I don't want to give them the hassle of going through a huge inventory so the 6 slots will plainly do.

Having different skill builds as well as item builds - Increases number of strategies and such.

Still. This project is in need of much rethinking on some aspects, including the name - I will change it soon :3

 

[iPeez]

If you are going to make this, do it the right way so we dont get another usless idea/project. I have released too many of them!