Human vs undead

[TooSlowFcker]

hey I usually go human and I have a hard time beating undead people. any tips?
which heroes and units and stuff like that

 

[millzy]

ur best tactic would be rifle men at start then go for knights and priest um heros id say go pally and blood mage

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

Ud is actually pretty easy...

1) if the person is randoming UD and you don't know the persons race get AM... if you KNOW the person is UD get a pali. Pali rocks UD hardcore.

Level pali up in holy light, divine shield, holy light, devotion aura, holy lught, devotion aura etc. Expect the pali to be the target of all nukes, hence get at least rank 1 divine shield.

2) Mass towers = somewhat ineffective. Destros > towers... Mass tower = lose

3) UD expo's are vulnerable, yours are not. Get an expo early, fortify it with a few towers. Good UD will then get destros to counter, in which you get rifles etc.

Build: I suggest pali mk as two heroes. AM should not be chosen as a 2nd hero, and mk works well with pali healing. They're resiliant enough to DK/Lich nukes, and the stun can help make life annoying for undead.

Get defend for footies! Pretty much all undead will get fiends. Pierce loses big time to defend. If they focus pali, devine shield. It make's a great meat wall.

T2- probably breakers morts rifles is the build you want. Breakers have decent hp and have feedback so dk will need to spam pots. I would say casters, but destros own casters for free with devour magic. If they don't get destros then get casters. Priests are probably still effective with heal and dispel, but I wouldn't bother with sorcs.

vs gargs: rifles. Rifles are effective aa vs pretty much all ud...

If Ud turtles: morts to break the shell, footmen on defend, rifles for ranged, breakers for gayness/anti-spell nukage. Priests for heal/dispell (if they go necros).

Don't let the Ud player out-tech you. Dragons are a pain and can usually be easily scouted if you know the person is a) turteling or b) fast teching.

This is very basic ideas of fighting UD as HU.

 

[Asehujiko]

Make sure you fetch some sentry wards somewhere and dump them near any mana fountains. A single necro and a wagon there can ruin your day if you don't know about them and get attacked by 8 skels every minute. And get rifles. Rifles are good against fiends, gargs, necros, destros and frosts. In short, everything ud that is worth building.And use your pala to creep asap, holy light 3 can instagib acos and ghouls. So you can just run in, light something, shield, annoy them some more, light again and most likely a third time before the shield wears off and you tp out. You lost a scroll, he lost 25% of his eco.

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

Hence why you get priests/breakers with dispel...

holy light 3 requires lvl 5 Pali... I suggest using storm bolt and holy light to dual nuke mk... It makes Undead scared for some reason lol.

 

[Ninja_sheep]

paladin lame ftw! If he has no stun you can use wand of teleportation. jit's way cheaper and can be used multiple times.

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

That's why you get MK and Pali... learn to read k? Anyways, then you'd be leaving your army high and dry... Staff of TP works when moon plays b/c he passes it around and has multiple heroes oscillating in and out of the fight so his army isn't stranded.

Pali's can harass UD pretty easily as well, hence why pali works vs ud but not too much else.

 

[Ninja_sheep]

my post was adressed to asehujiko and it was just an addition. It'd be a waste to buy multiple scrolls if a single TP staff is enough


And the staff of preservation + staff of TP combo as NE with moonwells sure is nice, but what is the connection with the topic?

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

Right, my apologies.

I think we were talking about tping out of a UD's main... Reminds me of a fun tactic that people can use as human. This *can* work if the person is an idiot nad plays UD or NE.

1) get a bloodmage and an Item shop
2) buy a critter, run into the back of the enemies base
3) spawn critter, flame strike a bunch, TP out
4) Mass towers
5) Get staff of tp and tp scroll
6) repeat and win

Doesn't often work, but it hilarious when it does.

 

[Father_Yetti]

I like to get a few morts. They own statues fast - because their attack type is siege and they deal a lot of damage - which makes it easier to then dissect the rest of their army. With morts; target the statues and meat wagons first then move on to ghouls and casters, then get the spiders and whatever else. Sometimes you just want to go for the most condensed clusters of troops however since morts deal AOE damage. From my experience most UD players get statues and taking away their healing and mana at the start really helps. Morts also own fiends, ghouls, necs, and banshees with ease but you got to keep them protected. In all honesty merely three or four morts can serve a great purpose in an early skirmish but I like to get more of them if possible. And its okay if they don’t survive they can serve their purpose with just a few shots volleyed from each one of them.

If you do this though pump rifles as suggested earlier and do get some melee for shielding. A good player will target your morts first as they will rip his army apart. Frost nova can hurt you as well as impale, this is why I like MK (but he is my second hero choice, Pali first) against UD to balance this and take on their heroes/by time. From my experience disables and stuns are magic against UD. I hate that damn Death Knight running around healing and being healed, he is fast as hell too and can usually outrun you. Nuke him or Lich first with your heroes other units, however keep morts attacking the other units as listed.

Anyhow if they go for your morts don’t try to run them away unless you can save them. Just do as much damage as you can. Chances are you can do some considerable damage while they waste time having to flank you. Only at the end when there are a few left or they are all almost dead do I try to run my morts to safety or heal them. I do this just to further draw their units away and spread their army buying time, maybe save a mort or two.

The other cool thing about morts is that there are a lot of UD players that like to tech and a UD base is hard to rush, they got good towers for damage and a slow that really sucks. Plus they can usually have a control group of ghouls on lumber ready to aid. Morts will eat through this so fast – especially if their money went into their base or teching – they will have too few troops to counter you.

A really cheap strategy to pull if they let you is to mass morts head to their base with TP in hand. Nuke the hell at of the main first, hopefully catching them with their pants down, and if you’re really lucky they sometimes won’t TP soon enough. Continue to destroy as much as you can and if you start taking too much heat just TP out and prepare to hit again or be hit. There is really little to counter this if they don’t see it coming, but it does have its cons.

Here are a few more counters and tips:

If they are going necs, stats, wagons: you can own this with morts, meat shields, rifles or throw priest in the mix, the dispel will own.

If they mass ghouls pray you got MK or AM as their AOE spells will own them. Then build rifles/foots to counter, morts if you can, but be ready for aa as many will mass ghouls while teching to air in hopes you will exhaust your resources trying to counter their rush.

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

I like to get a few morts. They own statues fast - because their attack type is siege and they deal a lot of damage - which makes it easier to then dissect the rest of their army. With morts; target the statues and meat wagons first then move on to ghouls and casters, then get the spiders and whatever else. Sometimes you just want to go for the most condensed clusters of troops however since morts deal AOE damage. From my experience most UD players get statues and taking away their healing and mana at the start really helps. Morts also own fiends, ghouls, necs, and banshees with ease but you got to keep them protected. In all honesty merely three or four morts can serve a great purpose in an early skirmish but I like to get more of them if possible. And its okay if they don’t survive they can serve their purpose with just a few shots volleyed from each one of them.

Morts get owned by anything that can attack them. That's why you need a decent meat wall, preferrably of breakers for hero targeting and anti-nukage. They're also anti-banshee and anti-destroyers if you fight them.

Morts are great vs UD because they're base is so vulnerable. Their buildings are tightly clumped so you can put a few morts in hold position and hit several buildings. They are also great pressure against a UD army. A fast army will be able to flank simply because of their speed and unholy aura. Slower armies (like fiends abombs stats destros) Will be slower but packs a heavier punch.

If you do this though pump rifles as suggested earlier and do get some melee for shielding. A good player will target your morts first as they will rip his army apart. Frost nova can hurt you as well as impale, this is why I like MK (but he is my second hero choice, Pali first) against UD to balance this and take on their heroes/by time. From my experience disables and stuns are magic against UD. I hate that damn Death Knight running around healing and being healed, he is fast as hell too and can usually outrun you. Nuke him or Lich first with your heroes other units, however keep morts attacking the other units as listed.

Breaks are more effective anti-nuke than an mk. I use MK as a one two punch of holy light and then storm bolt. Also, breakers will reduce the healing capabilities of the dk since they have feedback. Focusing on the DK is a good idea since it'll put alot of pressure on his best hero. If you target the lich you'll 85% of the time be outhealed so it's hardly worth it.

Anyhow if they go for your morts don’t try to run them away unless you can save them. Just do as much damage as you can. Chances are you can do some considerable damage while they waste time having to flank you. Only at the end when there are a few left or they are all almost dead do I try to run my morts to safety or heal them. I do this just to further draw their units away and spread their army buying time, maybe save a mort or two.

If they go for your morts run them away and GO FOR THEIR ARMY!!!!! You'll pick off a bunch of free kills from straggling units while they're chasing your easily replaceable morts.

The other cool thing about morts is that there are a lot of UD players that like to tech and a UD base is hard to rush, they got good towers for damage and a slow that really sucks. Plus they can usually have a control group of ghouls on lumber ready to aid. Morts will eat through this so fast – especially if their money went into their base or teching – they will have too few troops to counter you.

I disagree. UD Bases are easiest to crack... UD rarely has more than 5 workers, so it's very easy to quick nuke a main and run. Also UD has the weakness of their towers ALSO being their food. This means destroying tower (which have lowish hp to begin with) also reduces their army size and they'll HAVE to replace them.

Human and Orc towers are much tougher to crack because they're usually behind the meat wall of farms which are easily replaceable and ALSO have decent hp. so while your trying to get to the towers doing damage you have to go through 3 farms to get to the tower. The turtling is much less exposed than in an ud base. Also, the towers are heavy army instead of fortified so siege doesn't do as much damage to them.

All you need is about 2 tanks and you beat UD bases. Only way for Ud to counter easily is with meat wagons, and they are vulnerable to other units.

If they are going necs, stats, wagons: you can own this with morts, meat shields, rifles or throw priest in the mix, the dispel will own.

Or breakers priests. Breakers are always a safe bet for humans.

If they mass ghouls pray you got MK or AM as their AOE spells will own them. Then build rifles/foots to counter, morts if you can, but be ready for aa as many will mass ghouls while teching to air in hopes you will exhaust your resources trying to counter their rush.

Or you could go breakers. Blizz is too slow a spell for massing, especially with the dk nuking and surrounding. also, they'll probably have dl for sleep/vampiric aura. Breakers are good since they do decent damage, have range AND have spell immunity. Also they have great hp and armor for their cost.

Basic build: rifles breakers morts/tanks.