Let's talk about maps.

[Bloodcount]

You know, I am sure that most of you guys are bussy either pursuing some achievment, trying to get into the diamond league or just playing co-op with friends, however for those of you who are mapping, there are a coupple of things that I'd like to discuss with them.


I bet that everyone wants to end up making an uber cool and original map. However I am interested in knowing if you are re-making a wc3 map into scII. Wich map, why did u choose to re-make THIS map and of course, do you find it easier or harder to re-make in SCII editor than in WE ?



I looked up some tutorials, Yeah, they helped... a bit, but overall the editor still feels like a jungle to me...

What are your thoughts ? How do you find the editor ? Did you have any strategy while you were learning it ? IS there a specific tutorial that helped YOU ?


That is pretty much all for now, thanks for reading.

 

[Sevion]

The editor? Wait... I don't use that piece of junk atm. <3

I use Notepad++.

 

[Bloodcount]

+1 for that. I really dislike unlogical things.(like the editor) There either has to be a mod for the editor or I am getting back to making stand alone games (if I find someone to make the art... :X )


I played most of the "famous" maps currently in b.net. It was quite funny for me to find out that over 80% of the units were the pre-made ones and there were just some triggers and minor unit editing (like hp change and unit size) that made the map run xD

Not sayin' that the mappers didn't do a fine job the maps are fun, simply pointing out that imho blizz have went a bit too far trying to make the editor the most moddable thing evAr.

 

[Sevion]

Ikr :-/

The maps don't have much work put into them. They might be fun for a while, but they get really boring fast.

 

[Bloodcount]

there are some videos of high quallity looking projects in youtube. However... there are always gonna be big projects (like the ORPG's in wc3 and a few AoS games, not only dota) What pisses me is that the first custom maps in wc3 were... fun. The ones here, like you stated above are by all means one-day-play. Hell, I got tired of playing Nexus wars after 3 games, even though it has the layout of wc3's Castle Fight.

Hm.... I wonder, why are there mostly defence maps ?

>The maps don't have much work put into them.
Sad but true. What I don't understand is why ? Imo, people just want to be famous and are releasing maps to gain faim, hope that I am wrong though.


I don't know how if you have played some of the older maps like the Reighn of Chaos footman wars or Spiral Defence. There was one triangle AoS, forgot it's name... Those maps had atmoshphere, you cloud feel the love that was put into their creation, but in the current maps... dunno, when I played them to chill out, they felt rather... empty, even though fun in the first 2-3 minutes.

 

[punwisp]

Lot of people dont lilke the editor for the simple fact its not very simple and easy anymore. Its by far way more powerful, but complicated and unorganized. To do a simple thing is time consuming, and would often need Tuts to figure out how to do correctly.

Bloodcount, if you mention Dota, I will strangle you, and blow out your intestines while feeding you to dogs. If not, then you get a cookie.

Dota was only original when it came out for RoC, When TFT it lost its originality and uniqueness, and continued to grow around its simplicity of gameplay, which surprisingly attracted a lot of people. Despite the fact how it ruined B.net giving almost no room for far more original and better maps, and how at some points they stole from other maps and included them in Dota releases, it was a decent game, with a horrible immature community.

Anyway, the editor needs a program, something like newgen, only made to make some things easier, along with organizing data, and some parts of the editor better, and set up, so it does certain things for you, so you dont have to jump to 15 different locations to do something so simple as to train a a new custom unit.

 

[Bloodcount]

Amen to that.

Btw, it is kinda funny how you threaten me with slow and horrible death if I mention Dota and then you go an entire paragraph talking about it

Btw, if you are refering to my custom title, it is just a joke. (I want a coockie)



A program like that might not come in the near future.


I do have a grave feeling that the SCII maps might be some half-done half-pre-set, soulless modifications... Atleast for now that is what they are. It is undoubtable that there are going to be a few big projects, but I highly doubt that they will be in the near future. So, for now, the best thing we can do is hope that blizz will fix the editor with the expansions.

 

[punwisp]

My statement was basically if you meant dota, you would die a horrible death, if you meant dota, thats what my paragraph was about.

So its a win/win situation

 

[Joccaren]

As soon as I get my head around the data editor, I'll start on some big projects. I never start something that is half-hearted or made only to become a popular mapper. Even if I don't finish the map, making it will be an experience on its own. If anyone does know any good tuts, please tell me. I would like, no, love to be able to do something with this new editor.

 

[Bloodcount]

There is a lack of good tutorials, because there is a lack of good mappers, atm : (

 

[Dave312]

I reckon I have a fairly firm grasp of how the data editor works now. That is not to say I know everything, but enough to be able to come up with a solution or know where to find the solution for anything that I need to do.

Good maps and tutorials take time. People are still figuring out how to use the editor, so until that happens, the maps that are released will be fairly basic.

 

[Bloodcount]

May I ask how much time (in hours if possible :d ) It has taken you to not feel like a neantherthal when using it ?

I have spent ~4 hours and I feel like a cave-man (even worse )

 

[Dave312]

Not as long as you would imagine. I spent a couple of weeks playing around with it. The hardest thing to learn is how each category interacts with each other. Once you can get that down pat, you can work out where you need to look in order to make the change you want (which will save you a lot of time).

 

[Joccaren]

Just incase anyone didn't notice, you can change the layout of the data to a more WC3 editor style by clicking some of the square buttons between the data and the module buttons.

 

[tom_mai78101]

just incase anyone didn't notice, you can change the layout of the data to a more wc3 editor style by clicking some of the square buttons between the data and the module buttons.

Wut??

(If you're actually talking about the size of the GUI buttons and stuffs, and we can customize how it looks in some places, I'll buy it.)

 

[punwisp]

You can, theres modes where it shows only the simple UI options, and theres advanced where it shows them all. You can also change the viewing of them.

 

[Bloodcount]

He means that the usual WE style is... well let's say box-style. Warcraft 3's style was columns with texts. You can switch between those two modes. Sadly this has no effect what so ever on the actual unit editing...

 

[punwisp]

Well, it can help actually

 

[sqrage]

There is a lack of good tutorials, because there is a lack of good mappers, atm : (

World Editor has been out for over half a century, the great tutorials for it didn't come out of nowhere.

 

[Miz]

World Editor has been out for over half a century, the great tutorials for it didn't come out of nowhere.

This. The reason why we have so many Tutorials for World Editor is because Warcraft 3 came out in 2002. That's 8 years of knowledge compared to like the two or less months we have had with Starcraft II Editor.