Let's talk about maps.

[sqrage]

I meant decade by the way. (But century sounded cooler!)

 

[Flare]

I really dislike unlogical things.(like the editor)

What's illogical about the editor? Everything is separating into its base components (I can't think of a better term for it right now) to allow the end-user to truly craft new objects rather than just make objects that have (in contrast to SC2) strict limitations, like in WorldEdit

The only thing (IMO) that could be illogical would be the idea behind using a very complicated approach, but it does work rather well (from my limited experience). Personally, I think the biggest 'problem' is the mindset people employ when doing stuff (based on the questions I've seen people asking here, and in other forums) - there seems to be some innate notion that things will simply... work, but they never do.

While it's not exactly something I would expect to be taken on-board by anyone and everyone instantly, I think people would be able to get much more from the Data Editor if they looked at it in the sense that they are actually building/assembling something, rather than a completed object being handed to them like in WorldEdit. It certainly helped me navigate the Data Editor more effectively, since you can sort-of visualise the connections between each data type, and what they add to the final product.

Hm.... I wonder, why are there mostly defence maps ?

Relatively simple and straightforward to manufacture - only a little bit of triggering involved (spawning units, waypoints, lives, and leaderboards). Creating the units would just be duplication of a base unit, modifying the vital attributes, changing the Actor 's model and events. The towers would have the slight complication of dealing with some Effects, but there are plenty of default assets to work with.

There was one triangle AoS

The French one (I think there was a fair share of French text in the map, or at least a French map name) with mostly standard Melee heroes? That was fun

So, for now, the best thing we can do is hope that blizz will fix the editor with the expansions.

What, praytell, is broken with it? And please don't say "everything", that's not really going to explain much

 

[punwisp]

I meant decade by the way. (But century sounded cooler!)

I hope you did, I didn't want to post and call you a idiot .

Over a half century is over 50 years, blizzard hasn't been around that long xD

 

[Joccaren]

The WC3 arrangement is can be easier to understand than the seemingly random fields in the SC2 editor. You can see where everything you want to change is, rather than searching throughout the whole window for some obscure field that changes a units actor/abilities. It is also, for those who are used to the old WE, to add and remove abilities, weapons and techtree requirements.

 

[Bloodcount]

>I meant decade by the way. (But century sounded cooler!)

Point taken. + we lack an AceHart

@ Miz- yeah, when I think about it there were a lot of good tutirials (GUI crash course and Jass crash course) who were created in 2009 ? :?

if they looked at it in the sense that they are actually building/assembling something, rather than a completed object being handed to them like in WorldEdit.

Damn, Flare, that IS smart... until now I was just looking at it like a modified WE, not like a new editor... yeah I suppose that the way you see things can be more important than people think it can be. Thanks, man.

The French one (I think there was a fair share of French text in the map, or at least a French map name) with mostly standard Melee heroes? That was fun

Same thing. It was uber fun for Lan partys

>What, praytell, is broken with it? And please don't say "everything", that's not really going to explain much

Even though I never was a good GUI-er, the actual GUI of the SE (Star Editor) is much easier and more verstitile. I do still, fail to see the connection between the different fields. To be honest I do belive that the problem is with me, not the editor so... I should just stop playing co-op and pay it a little more attention

The WC3 arrangement is can be easier to understand than the seemingly random fields in the SC2 editor

It really is, although... you have to admit that there are a lot of fields that can be customized

 

[FrozenShadow]

I have no idea how the freakin object editor works, so I stopped using it and just played around with the melee units, I can trigger fairly well.

 

[tom_mai78101]

So, how much did you learn from playing with the data editor? I know it's a bit confusing and all...

 

[Monsterous]

I found the editor to be a right bastard.
Then i learnt it and it still is, just not as much.
It's like WC3 was a pile of big lego bricks - you only needed to learn what to make, and how the pieces fit, whilst SC2 is small lego bricks strewn around a 1 mile field. It's hard to find everything and get it to make sense when you don't have some pieces, but when its all together - the smaller bricks allow you to make better, more intricate things.
(If this analogy made sense, i'll be surprised.)

I wanted to remake Murder in the Mansion in my own fashion - which i did after a week's work. It be called Deep Space Murder on the EU servers (shameless plug )

I learnt the editor by sheer brute force. I played around with the data editor, and i know how to work it to some extent now, i can actually create a new unit without duplicating (but it takes a while.)

 

[Joccaren]

You know, now I'm thinking of just playing around in the data editor, learning how to make completely new units and abilities + how everything ties into everything else, and then make an in-depth tutorial. Unless someone beats me to it.

 

[Severon]

Well don't worry about me beating you to it Joccaren, I'm to lazy for that stuff. As for the data editor, tbh I like it. Though it took me a bit to figure out just how everything works with each other, but now that I have I can run a test map spot a problem and no where to fix it and its done it not much time. I can't speak for behaviors cause I haven't messed with them yet, but from what i've seen and read those things are going to be really handy to have and save alot of coding time. Overall I like this new editor better than WE even though WE was easier to use this editor is allows for so much more. I like both Flare's comparison and Monsterous's analogy. You do need to look at it as small lego pieces that need to be assembled from the bottom up, where as WE basically gave you finished lego productions that would fit into each other.

 

[Oninuva]

I honestly don't like the new editor, I mean it's cool and all but I open the Data Editor and it takes me half an hour to figure out how to duplicate a marine. I've noticed there are "tutorials" for that around the internet but something like that, should really be simple. So for now I'll play around with the editor now and then but nothing really serious will come out of it. For some reason, I'm more interested in 1v1 ranked games.

 

[punwisp]

Thats what happens when you sacrifice simplicity for the sake of limitless. Before when you duplicate a marine, you, in essence, have very few options you can actually do it all, all you can really do is modify its scale (size of unit) Health, mana, attack, defense, name, and descriptions. And of course the one thing that sets each unit apart. Abilities. All of which are limited yet very easy to use, so it takes less then a minute to make a different unit, longer to make a unique unit. Now in Galaxy, you can do far, far more, and each option is quite flexible. One of the biggest of options is the hero system.

The hero system is by far more flexible then the one in World Editor. You can add as many Attributes as you want in Sc2, and you can have them linked to ANYTHING and do ANYTHING you want it too. And once you figure out where everything is and how the system works, its quite easy.

I do admit though, I still have trouble just making a new unit. I have the same damn trouble every time...

Either A. The unit ends up being free and is made instantly, or B. the unit has its costs, but loses them once it has requirements, and is made instantly. B. The unit has no costs and is made instantly.

Can't ever seem to fix the problem and in the past no one here could seem to solve it (That replied).

I have seen tuts on how to copy a unit, but someone NEEDS to make a tut on how to make it TRAINABLE, WITHOUT ISSUES.

 

[Flare]

I have seen tuts on how to copy a unit, but someone NEEDS to make a tut on how to make it TRAINABLE, WITHOUT ISSUES.

Well, before someone can make a tutorial on the subject, someone has to know how to do it

I think SC2Mapster and Starcraft@IncGamers have tutorial request threads - if you haven't done so already, you may as well make a request.

 

[Severon]

Sigh punwisp if I was at home I would take some screen shots and show you, but I have a feeling if I try to describe it without looking at it I might only make you more confused. I can how ever tell you that the cost of the units(the ones that I got to train) is done on the unit itself in the cost area, but the build time is in the ability that I made.(Though depending on the ability you use the name of the field is different. Idk why just is). I'll try to remember tonight(if I get time) to start writing a tut, but it will be my first one EVER so it will be rough and will probably need revising as issues come up so fair warning right now. :s

P.S. I can't gaurantee its the best way to do it either, cause I have found out that there are multiple ways to do different things, but I made a Mule from a scv and then made it trainable from a custom Command Center, plus created upgrades for buildings that all seem to work. So you have that much atleast.

 

[Slapshot136]

It's like WC3 was a pile of big lego bricks - you only needed to learn what to make, and how the pieces fit, whilst SC2 is small lego bricks strewn around a 1 mile field. It's hard to find everything and get it to make sense when you don't have some pieces, but when its all together - the smaller bricks allow you to make better, more intricate things.
(If this analogy made sense, i'll be surprised.)

i think it makes sense, although maybe sc2 should be lego bricks and wc3 can be mega blocks or whatever those huge ones meant for babies are called

 

[thewrongvine]

Yes, but it should be branched.
Like it should be one huge brick whenever you want something done. Creating a unit or a trigger. Then, you have the basic stats, so you have the medium bricks. Those medium bricks like in WC3 should be enough to give you a stable game. Then, if you want to edit details further, you can expand to the small bricks. Then, if you want specifics, you get the tiny bricks. Then if you want the limitleses, you get miniscule bricks, like the new editables in SC2.
But instead of starting out with large bricks, SC2 just throws you into the tiny bricks, even if sometimes you just want a big brick so you can build a big castle really fast and then have castle wars with a friend.
o.o Lego's ftw.

 

[tom_mai78101]

Basically, throwing Lego bricks is more fun than building a castle out of tiny ones.

 

[Sevion]

L-l-l-egos-os-os!!!!!!

 

[Bloodcount]

Yeah, yeah, all this lego talk makes me want to play lego Star wars

Back on topic- It was very well put TRV, however most of the people want their castle to be diffierent from other people's, so they go and tey ro edit the detail. This is where the prroblems star comming along.

 

[Flare]

This thread is now about Lego!
Joking, of course :X

Yes, but it should be branched.
Like it should be one huge brick whenever you want something done. Creating a unit or a trigger. Then, you have the basic stats, so you have the medium bricks. Those medium bricks like in WC3 should be enough to give you a stable game. Then, if you want to edit details further, you can expand to the small bricks. Then, if you want specifics, you get the tiny bricks. Then if you want the limitleses, you get miniscule bricks, like the new editables in SC2.
But instead of starting out with large bricks, SC2 just throws you into the tiny bricks, even if sometimes you just want a big brick so you can build a big castle really fast and then have castle wars with a friend.
o.o Lego's ftw.

If I'm understanding you correctly...

Would that really make things any less complicated? I mean, there's an awful lot of data types available - sure, it's useful if all you're interested in is very basic stuff, but the "good" stuff would become even more intricate than it already is (which I, personally, would not like to see, the Data Editor is confusing enough as it is )

If Blizzard would be kind enough to include more tooltips for the various fields (it's such a nuisance to see a particular field have tooltips for certain values, but not for others, especially when the terms used aren't very self-explanatory), I'd be relatively happy

Also, please, no more Lego analogies