Obama Scandal and Today's Media

[Seb!]

Ugh, do we really need to start throwing around the numbers that show how well European welfare states function?

That would be quite educational. Those systems are some of the economic triumphs in history, and Americans are laughing at them.

And please.. let's not throw around the word communism. Nothing leads to communism.. that doesn't even make sense. It just shows an ignorance of what communism really is.

 

[Faust]

Society either leads to:
- Communism
or
- Destruction

The absolute instance of either one.

And please do not cry over the word Communism.
Marx knew what he was talking about, what he predicted not didn't come, but hasn't come. Yet.
A rose by any other name smells just as sweet.


And nll still doesn't get it...

So you now earn 300$, and the government takes 150$.
That leaves you with 150$.
I don't see how would it be any better if you earned 150$ and the government took nothing.

 

[Seb!]

Society either leads to:
- Communism
or
- Destruction

The absolute instance of either one.

Uh.. yeah.. except there have been like thousands of societies and cultures and like 8 or 9 Communisms. Do you even know what a Communism is? How is it any more likely that a society will randomly change into a communism than into any other type of government?

 

[Faust]

By society I meant the whole world.
Either one is unavoidable. Whether you like it or not (if not, then you are a horrible person and should be gifted a painful death).

Furthermore... Ah forget it. Your last post so rubbish I don't even know where to begin setting you straight...

In a nutshell, what you said is stupid, and probably answers to someone else's post but definitely not mine. I guess you misunderstood.

 

[uberfoop]

Uh, what? At this stage, communism as a long-term thing for human society is incredibly unlikely. Popular support for Leninist revolution is basically dead since we all know how that went down for the 20th century, and society has found ways (long ago) to compromise such that workers versus bourgeoisie doesn't turn into bloody conflict, to the point where it's just about no longer even an issue, so true Marxist revolution is out of the question as well.

As for destruction, well, yeah...By some predictions, even if we survive the wrath of our Sun, we could be screwed in the long run by entropy. I figure I'll probably be dead by the time that happens though.

 

[WastedSavior]

By society I meant the whole world.
Either one is unavoidable. Whether you like it or not (if not, then you are a horrible person and should be gifted a painful death).

Furthermore... Ah forget it. Your last post so rubbish I don't even know where to begin setting you straight...

In a nutshell, what you said is stupid, and probably answers to someone else's post but definitely not mine. I guess you misunderstood.

I think its time for you to walk away and cool off before you get this debate closed. :thdown:

 

[WolSHaman]

If I own my own business and make upwards a salary of $300k. I get a 33% federal income tax, and 11% state tax. Since I own my own business I would pay 12.4% in Social Security taxes. (Because I am both the employee and employer).

really? According to your profile you're only 19 years old...

Not to mention your federal income tax would actually be 28.05% federal tax, not 33%. You'd be in the 33% tax bracket though.

 

[Prometheus]

America is the best it gets.

@Wol
He said if.

 

[WolSHaman]

America is the best it gets.

@Wol
He said if.

Oh I missed that. Well the federal tax is lower, and the state tax would be lower, too. The only state where you pay 11 percent state tax is in Hawaii, and that's only on your income above 48,000 I want to say, so below 48 k he's taxed at lower percents, so he wouldn't pay 11 percent state tax. And, apparently, if you make above 103, 000 dollars roughly, you pay considerably less on your social security tax (http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10022.html). As low as 2.9 percent. That makes it alot less then he stated.

 

[thewrongvine]

So you now earn 300$, and the government takes 150$.
That leaves you with 150$.
I don't see how would it be any better if you earned 150$ and the government took nothing.

Or, how about you earn $300 and keep $300? You can double what you had before,

No point complaining about unfairness, some people will always be greedy and selfish,

~Hai-Bye-Vine~

 

[Seb!]

America is the best it gets.

Exactly. Living in America and having the economic opportunities and services provided is literally priceless.

 

[Varine]

As far as anyone should be concerned, your government can take 99.99% of your earned money in taxes, as long as you are not dying to hunger.

Why would anyone work then?

 

[Faust]

So you don't starve to death, for example.

@uberfoop
>>At this stage

Did I say anything about the near future?


Why is it so difficult to comprehend: everyone can't have more than everyone.

 

[uberfoop]

You must have misread my post. When I said 'At this stage,' I wasn't using it to imply that there is much potential progression that could take place in any direction, I was suggesting that we are past the point most likely for either Leninist or true Marxist revolution to take place and those eventualities will continue to become less likely. You did not address the near future, but in effect, neither did I; I addressed the entire future.

Why is it so difficult to comprehend: everyone can't have more than everyone.

What is this even supposed to mean?

 

[Faust]

The world, as it is, is like a bottle half filled with soda (or a bowling pin, whatever).
And it is swinging.
One side is centralism, and almost total equality.
Other one is utter destruction.

It is unavoidable.
What do you think then, how will the whole world look like in 200 years?


>>What is this even supposed to mean?
A sentence that confutes your post, in essence.

 

[DogOfHavoc]

The world, as it is, is like a bottle half filled with soda (or a bowling pin, whatever).
And it is swinging.
One side is centralism, and almost total equality.
Other one is utter destruction.

It is unavoidable.

Based on what? Your own personal conjecture? Unless you have substantial proof to support your theory it is useless speculation. You're stating an opinion as undeniable fact.

 

[Faust]

Let me put it this way:
For how long can you exploit something?
What happens when there is nothing more to exploit?
Let's say there are 100 men and 100 pigs.
Capitalism says you can have more than 1 pig.
Capitalism says everyone can have more than 1 pig.
So if everyone wants two pigs... what happens? Oh there are only 100 pigs, so if you get another one, it means someone else has no pig anymore.
But capitalism says, that the one now with no pig can have more than 1 pig... So how does that add up?
50 people can have 2 pigs. The other 50 will have no pigs. They starve to death? Unlikely. Will they try to take pigs by force? What would you do?
Which means, the complete destruction.

In communism, you have 1 pig. You live. You don't need more. If you try to get more, they bitchslap you. They force you not to hurt others by taking, and they force others not to hurt you, by taking what you need.
You can't magically summon food or anything else on that matter, except money.
And money should mean food and other valuables, which it does not.

The capitalism is already breaking down... The global economic crisis is the fine example of that. When the people start trying to change their money into real valuables, it instantly turns out, that there are not enough goods for everyone, IF everyone wants more than the other.

What is your salary? Let's say you get 100$ into your pocket every month.
How much $ do you spend on things you actually NEED? See this video. It's says no word about communism, but reveals the facts. Which lead to either conclusion; death, or everyone is equal - centralism.

You can print money so everyone can have "more", but you can't endlessly exploit the resources of the planet.

 

[DogOfHavoc]

That's really not how it works. It's more like this.

100 men. 100 pigs.
Capitalism says you can have more than 1 pigs.
The ones who get more than 1 pig become bigger and stronger and force the others to accept that they get nothing. They may tell them everyone can have their own pig, but it's not the truth.

You seem to believe that equality is the natural state of man. That's not the truth. Someone is always going to have to sweep the floors.

 

[Faust]

You seem to believe that equality is the natural state of man. That's not the truth. Someone is always going to have to sweep the floors.

Which is more than inhumane.
Do you consider the ancient romans weak?
Nothing about communism, the point is, centralism. And equality.
Under the ORDER of Julius Ceasar, Rome became the biggest.

If you believe that our future is mutual exploitation, then you are horrible, you are a disease of society.
Explotation makes a few people rich, and a lot more poor.
And poor seek unity, to achieve survival. And unity crushes mutual contention.
No man has ever survived alone. Not in the cavemen times, not now, and never will.


There are going to be people of pure and righteous heart, and strong will. Like Lenin was.

 

[Prometheus]

Equality isn't the state of man. While we may come together against a common enemy, everyone wants the biggest slice of the pie, in the end.