The Collaborative Map Making Project

[NEDM]

I also like it but I think it needs to be simpler, or jsut more easyly layed out,

for example the building up of the village, at lest make only defined areas, where you could build houses, or bars, and also add map blips and instructions to help new players, also this sounds like it will start slow, maybe mix it up a bit and add attacking monsters, that attack the village

Exactly! that is what we've been saying all along . My fingers are a bit tired atm but don't worry, i'll put more stuff in here soon. And that what i said, it has to be easy to understand it, especially for beginners, since everyone is a beginner when we lauch the map !

ANNOUNCEMENT - READ THROUGH MINE AND AGENTPAPER'S "GIGANT" POST ABOVE ATLEAST TWICE since even i keep finding stuff in it

 

[AgentPaper]

Seems very cool, i like it!!!

Only one thing...I find an importance in magnifying the competitional parts of the game - i'd like to add;
A)A timer for time pressure.

Don't think this would work very well with this game type, it would be better if it was just open ended after they left the first village.

B)Bosses or special events occuring now and then, say earthquakes, rodent infection, vampire in town or whatever.

That's a good idea, there oculd be random events (rodents, vampires, natural disasters), and player-started events (rebellion, wars).

C)Teams; 6v6, 4v4v4, 2v2v2v2v2v2, FFA:

You could have different game-types for this, though I think the best would be to just let the players group together as they like.

D)The goals have to be very clear and let's make (like) the first map wich don't have grammatical errors the size of my fist all over no, but you know, it's important with proper english, clearly stated goals, perhaps a little step-by-step guide on how to get started in the quest log and such.

For this, we could have a tutorial that the players can do (optional for more advanced players). Actually, we could have it so the whole first part in the village is scripted, and shows the player what to do. Then we can make it so that the pro players could leave whenever they wanted to. Of course the players who went through the village training/quests would get some sort of bonus, like the followers I stated, in order to let them compete with the ones wh didn't go through it.

E)The need to exit your village! Say, we have a map, epic size. In it there is a total of 20 towns, 18 of wich are captured by the bad guys. Imagine you split the map in the middle, top to bottom, leaving 2 tall and not very wide, separate maps on each side. On the left, a team of 6 players. On the right, a team of 6 players. Let's say theese two halves that form an epic sized map are identical, exept for the player colours, basically. Let's say the first town (the one you start with) is in the far north. The farther south you get, the stronger the enemies. This will make the roles of defender and invader switch, whilst adding a heroes-of-might-and-magic kind of touche to it, whilst still, in a distant way, resembling risk. And you'll probably want to fight with your hero on ground level, adding a very personal tone to the map, whilst you are conquering on a global scale. You win by, e.g.
-capturing the last town in the bottom south first.
-capturing something before the timer expires
or, my favourite: In the bottom south map on each side there is a portal, wich leads to the other side, so if you're on the left and goes through your portal, you end up on the identical right side and vice versa. This way you get to level up, quest, learn the game, bond, and so on before you take on the most interactive and stimulating enemy of all; the other player(s). We could, as time goes by, include (more than the portal) Airships, Boats, Mountain Passes, secret tunnel creation and so on. The possibilities are immense!!! THIS is what i would consider a revolutionary concept!!! Just imagining it right in front of me makes me shiver, almost...It's friggin moving :shades:
-

Er, I'm not sure what you're taling about, is that a whole other game type you're proposing?

 

[begone77]

wait so tell me if I am getting this right,


ok map basicly like this

-------------------------------
|=======================|
|=======================|
|=======================|
|=======================|
|=======================|
|=======================|
|=======================|
|=======================|
|------------------------------|
|=======================|
|======village============|
|=======================|
-------------------------------

something like that? and like monsters atk from above and like you can go outside the village and do quests etc?

 

[NEDM]

Don't think this would work very well with this game type, it would be better if it was just open ended after they left the first village.

You're right, remove the timer idea! I can see it now

That's a good idea, there oculd be random events (rodents, vampires, natural disasters), and player-started events (rebellion, wars).

Exactly. :shades:

You could have different game-types for this, though I think the best would be to just let the players group together as they like.

That could proove difficult if the players only can advance through a high level of cooperation - according to suggestion E) (wich i'll put all the weight of my word on to recommend), but it could be chosen in the beginning by the host, or, prefferably, the could be a vote.

For this, we could have a tutorial that the players can do (optional for more advanced players). Actually, we could have it so the whole first part in the village is scripted, and shows the player what to do. Then we can make it so that the pro players could leave whenever they wanted to. Of course the players who went through the village training/quests would get some sort of bonus, like the followers I stated, in order to let them compete with the ones wh didn't go through it.

Yes, we should fill the Main quests with info, info, INFO, whilst the Optional Quests would be actual quests - and lots of'em! And yeah, we should have a tutorial in the beginning - it seems great! But perhaps they could vote about the tutorial as well - if anyone wants to see it, everyone sees it and everything gets so much easier! "you had me at scriping"

Er, I'm not sure what you're taling about, is that a whole other game type you're proposing?

Yeah, additions to your idea. As i said, read it 2-3 times. Read it loudly - that way i found a ton of new stuff

 

[begone77]

Don't think this would work very well with this game type, it would be better if it was just open ended after they left the first village.That's a good idea, there oculd be random events (rodents, vampires, natural disasters), and player-started events (rebellion, wars).
You could have different game-types for this, though I think the best would be to just let the players group together as they like.
For this, we could have a tutorial that the players can do (optional for more advanced players). Actually, we could have it so the whole first part in the village is scripted, and shows the player what to do. Then we can make it so that the pro players could leave whenever they wanted to. Of course the players who went through the village training/quests would get some sort of bonus, like the followers I stated, in order to let them compete with the ones wh didn't go through it.
Er, I'm not sure what you're taling about, is that a whole other game type you're proposing?

about the tutorial, make it so you can turn it on or off at the start, like use the dialoge box triggers etc, but I also dont see this going to well, as meny ppl playing on B-net have short attention spans....and I can see ppl leaveing fast right off the bat.

I think the scripted events are cool, namely the vampire thing, I think we should stay away from player scripted events for now IE the rebellion/war thing, because it will just add to the complexity and I think fun and enjoyment should come before complexity. unless it is supper easy to have a rebellion or whatever I personaly think we should stay away from it for now

 

[NEDM]

about the tutorial, make it so you can turn it on or off at the start, like use the dialoge box triggers etc, but I also dont see this going to well, as meny ppl playing on B-net have short attention spans....and I can see ppl leaveing fast right off the bat.

I think the scripted events are cool, namely the vampire thing, I think we should stay away from player scripted events for now IE the rebellion/war thing, because it will just add to the complexity and I think fun and enjoyment should come before complexity. unless it is supper easy to have a rebellion or whatever I personaly think we should stay away from it for now

You're absolutely right! I've played maps that are complex and nothing else - and they were as lame as it gets, even though the maker easily must have spent 100 hours or more on it...a waste of potential :banghead:

 

[NEDM]

wait so tell me if I am getting this right,


ok map basicly like this

-------------------------------
|=======================|
|=======================|
|=======================|
|=======================|
|=======================|
|=======================|
|=======================|
|=======================|
|------------------------------|
|=======================|
|======village============|
|=======================|
-------------------------------

something like that? and like monsters atk from above and like you can go outside the village and do quests etc?

More Like this:

H = Boundaries
Village 1 = Players 1-6's starting village
Village 2 = Players 7-12's starting village
Town lvl 8 (final)= The best creep-populated town, in it there is a portal to the enemy's town 8 - Keep in mind that both halves are identical to each other geographically!

_______________________________
l village 1 H village 2 l
l H l
l town lvl 2 H town lvl 2 l
l H l
l town lvl 3 H town lvl 3 l
l H l
l town lvl 4 H town lvl 4 l
l etc H l
l etc H l
l etc H l
l etc H l
l town lvl 8 H town lvl 8 l
l______________H_______________l

I added pic on what it looked like in prewiev mode

 

[begone77]

You're absolutely right! I've played maps that are complex and nothing else - and they were as lame as it gets, even though the maker easily must have spent 100 hours or more on it...a waste of potential :banghead:

also the tut could be varry simple, and just use a cinamatic to hover over where things are, but keep it simi fast so players dont get board

 

[begone77]

More Like this:

H = Boundaries
Village 1 = Players 1-6's starting village
Village 2 = Players 7-12's starting village
Town lvl 8 (final)= The best creep-populated town, in it there is a portal to the enemy's town 8 - Keep in mind that both halves are identical to each other geographically!

_______________H_______________
l village 1 H village 2 l
l H l
l town lvl 2 H town lvl 2 l
l H l
l town lvl 3 H town lvl 3 l
l H l
l town lvl 4 H town lvl 4 l
l etc H l
l etc H l
l etc H l
l etc H l
l town lvl 8 H town lvl 8 l
l______________H_______________l

wait if there are towns all down the map...then how will monsters attack? will they spawn inside the town? I was under the impression there was liek some forrist outside where you could explore, and thats where the monsters came from

 

[Doomhammer]

thanks for adding me, NEDM.
I quite like your first 'draft' of the map. What we're now aiming at is something more epic.
There's one point I'd really like to add: It should be possible for at least 2 players to be on the evil side. If these two player slots are not used, it would all be triggered by script. If they're used however, the evil will be more powerful, as the evil commander can redirect attacks to the very weak spots of the defense, wisely use their finances to build certain unit types, and even play the evil boss in the end. So you could have 10 players fighting for the good, and 2 commanding the evil. A little plot might roughly shape up as follows:
You're sent into a village which is haunted by these mysterious creatures from the forest. Nobody knows where they come from and why they're attacking. - so the first race of the evils will be corrupted ogres, forest wolves, some trolls, etc. As the assaults intensify and the creeps become more powerful and more numerous, the players get to know that must be more behind those attacks. The undead come into play...
Have you thought about resources yet? Should there be a traditional gold mine in the city, maybe even more? So the goodies would have to train peasants to gather gold, whereas the evil guys would receive cash for kills.

 

[Lord_Kakashi]

Director of Evil!
You say random events? i say players vs player...

I was thinking to have a person like in gladiators too have as a "Manager of evil" or evil warlord kindda person who manages the evil forces ""within certian bounderies which can be extended druing the game as the heroes "progress and gets stronger"""

i mean to add dynamic challange so you dont know that Wave 1 will be zombies... The evil manager will have a choice to build diffrent things and send in from maybe diffrent directions...

So the good dudes would have to send out scouts to see what kind of evil is lurking outside of their town and defend accordingly..

Example: Warlord or whatever (player) chooses to spawn zombies for round one and send them from east..

or evil dude makes bats and good players has build strong ground defensive structure thus making it harder to defend themselves.

--Edit--

i've just seen you already got a evil side?? well if you can use anything from my post, use it.. otherwise.. well ignore me for being stupid!

 

[begone77]

thanks for adding me, NEDM.
I quite like your first 'draft' of the map. What we're now aiming at is something more epic.
There's one point I'd really like to add: It should be possible for at least 2 players to be on the evil side. If these two player slots are not used, it would all be triggered by script. If they're used however, the evil will be more powerful, as the evil commander can redirect attacks to the very weak spots of the defense, wisely use their finances to build certain unit types, and even play the evil boss in the end. So you could have 10 players fighting for the good, and 2 commanding the evil. A little plot might roughly shape up as follows:
You're sent into a village which is haunted by these mysterious creatures from the forest. Nobody knows where they come from and why they're attacking. - so the first race of the evils will be corrupted ogres, forest wolves, some trolls, etc. As the assaults intensify and the creeps become more powerful and more numerous, the players get to know that must be more behind those attacks. The undead come into play...
Have you thought about resources yet? Should there be a traditional gold mine in the city, maybe even more? So the goodies would have to train peasants to gather gold, whereas the evil guys would receive cash for kills.

here is my take on the

2 evil 6 good

or whatever

Pros:

adds another level to the game

player vs player makes games more interesting

people like being evil


Cons:

adds to complexity

will make the tutorial harder to understand/code/ruin story eliment because u will have to show where evil is

if one of the evil players leaves your fucked, if both leave game is pointless,

you get newb evil players - ruins hole game



IMO the cons are more then the pros, I think a computer controled evil would be more appropriate, and funner, maybe to satisfy you need for evil, make it so you can start heading evil, maybe by letting monsters in to the village which would then give you evil skills or powerups or items, but if you do it enough you would be exiled, or something, I dont know, but again thats adding to the complexity

 

[NEDM]

No problemo Doomhammer ! It warms me to see you here; yet another opinion !!! Let' see...

thanks for adding me, NEDM.
I quite like your first 'draft' of the map. What we're now aiming at is something more epic.
There's one point I'd really like to add: It should be possible for at least 2 players to be on the evil side. If these two player slots are not used, it would all be triggered by script. If they're used however, the evil will be more powerful, as the evil commander can redirect attacks to the very weak spots of the defense, wisely use their finances to build certain unit types, and even play the evil boss in the end. So you could have 10 players fighting for the good, and 2 commanding the evil.

That would probably not work () because of abuse of the role as king/queen of darkness since;
A)they could send omg lvl 666 doom warriors to the first village immediately.
B)part of the mysticism of the map would dissapear.
C)as many heroes as possible are required to make it worth the mapping time.
D)lots of potentially unwanted scripting - and i mean lots and the evil are not supposed to be equally strong to the heroes, they have to be Neutral Hostile since they're supposed to be able to, in theory, send haxxors of doom one one to kill the heroes immediately - but they won't since they're neutral hostile! And is there a more fair judge than a computer in this situation? Even though i see the good point(s) in your idea, i wouldn't call it realistic (sadly). But thanks über-much any way, im +rep-ing you right now !

A little plot might roughly shape up as follows:
You're sent into a village which is haunted by these mysterious creatures from the forest. Nobody knows where they come from and why they're attacking. - so the first race of the evils will be corrupted ogres, forest wolves, some trolls, etc. As the assaults intensify and the creeps become more powerful and more numerous, the players get to know that must be more behind those attacks. The undead come into play...

Basically, it sounds like a great idea - i <3 it!

Have you thought about resources yet? Should there be a traditional gold mine in the city, maybe even more? So the goodies would have to train peasants to gather gold, whereas the evil guys would receive cash for kills.

Dunno, need some more opinions about that before really stating my point of view, but i had this idea; You could play hunter, slayer, bounty hunter whatever and you'd gain your gold through missions, loot and bounty. Or you could play a lord of some kind, who can construct things and hire a bodyguard of exotical creatures to future his own agendas, maybe searching for legendary artifacts? perhaps remeber it just has to stay balanced!

 

[NEDM]

Director of Evil!
You say random events? i say players vs player...

I was thinking to have a person like in gladiators too have as a "Manager of evil" or evil warlord kindda person who manages the evil forces ""within certian bounderies which can be extended druing the game as the heroes "progress and gets stronger"""

i mean to add dynamic challange so you dont know that Wave 1 will be zombies... The evil manager will have a choice to build diffrent things and send in from maybe diffrent directions...

So the good dudes would have to send out scouts to see what kind of evil is lurking outside of their town and defend accordingly..

Example: Warlord or whatever (player) chooses to spawn zombies for round one and send them from east..

or evil dude makes bats and good players has build strong ground defensive structure thus making it harder to defend themselves.

--Edit--

i've just seen you already got a evil side?? well if you can use anything from my post, use it.. otherwise.. well ignore me for being stupid!

I'd like to thank your for publishing your idea to us, but sadly i don't think it's what we're looking for at the moment. Thanks though (+rep!)

 

[lllidan]

here is my take on the

2 evil 6 good

or whatever

Pros:

adds another level to the game

player vs player makes games more interesting

people like being evil


Cons:

adds to complexity

will make the tutorial harder to understand/code/ruin story eliment because u will have to show where evil is

if one of the evil players leaves your fucked, if both leave game is pointless,

you get newb evil players - ruins hole game

I say we have this as a game option (along w/ the others lik eteams FFA etc.)
What would happen is when its selected 2 players are randomly selected and a unit is created for them and their alliance is changed. Then they could control the "evil army".

if one of the evil players leaves your fucked, if both leave game is pointless,

isnt that the case with most team games? i say its a risk to take, their problem not ours.

 

[Doomhammer]

good points, Lord_Kakashi.
The option to have those evil directors be triggered in case everybode wants to be on the good side should still be left open, I think.

this is how I could imagine the defense part of those playing the goodies:
I could imagine it to be a mixture of a fine TD, with proper towers (not tower-units), and a sort of RPG. There should be villagers running around all the time, and you can hire them (one of your abilities will be sort of "hire villager" and train them to some basic units, like militia or archer, so these hired villagers will be your basic working force for all those activities you don't want to care about, or risk your life for (sort of like your "gang" in GTA). So a villager can be trained to be a constructor, who now can build basic defense burrows (to load in several villagers trained to archers). A common forge/laboratory in the town center will ensure players can do common researches and upgrades, so your basic burrows are soon to be reinforced cannon towers.

 

[NEDM]

isnt that the case with most team games? i say its a risk to take, their problem not ours.

That's easy to say before you spend 100 hours making the map + put your soul into it :banghead:

 

[NEDM]

good points, Lord_Kakashi.
The option to have those evil directors be triggered in case everybode wants to be on the good side should still be left open, I think.

this is how I could imagine the defense part of those playing the goodies:
I could imagine it to be a mixture of a fine TD, with proper towers (not tower-units), and a sort of RPG. There should be villagers running around all the time, and you can hire them (one of your abilities will be sort of "hire villager" and train them to some basic units, like militia or archer, so these hired villagers will be your basic working force for all those activities you don't want to care about, or risk your life for (sort of like your "gang" in GTA). So a villager can be trained to be a constructor, who now can build basic defense burrows (to load in several villagers trained to archers). A common forge/laboratory in the town center will ensure players can do common researches and upgrades, so your basic burrows are soon to be reinforced cannon towers.

Did you read my post :banghead: ( :shades: )?

 

[begone77]

Dunno, need some more opinions about that before really stating my point of view, but i had this idea; You could play hunter, slayer, bounty hunter whatever and you'd gain your gold through missions, loot and bounty. Or you could play a lord, who can construct things and hire a bodyguard of exotical creature to future his own agendas, perhaps remeber it just has to stay balanced!

ok I know I know I am just saying the same thing over and over, guess its the way I think, keep it simple, I like the lord idea, and I like the gold mine idea, I think the income should be low, like for example, you get like 1 gold ever 10-50 sec, but stuff is cheep, hireing more gold miners for example may cost 10 gold, but would give you +1, of corce that is not acurate and would need balanceing but I am just giveing an example, but I think lower numbers would keep with the village feel, and the lord could have a skill that makes body guards, but also the build thing...thats unique I dont know, all I can say is think simple IMO

 

[rerere]

Just as a suggestion.....how about:
TheHelper.net Minigames

Each member that participates sends in a unique/fun minigame and one of the l33t members will take all of them and put it into one functional map.