Battle Ship Xtrm

[Sooda]

I' m here. I have done team shorting trigger what is needed for ordering both teams ships. I will try to finish moving trigger for friday evning.
I don' t need map right now because it dosn' t require it what I' m doing right now. Still if I will get it I change some things to fit triggers. I would like to make team 1 from 1 to 6 players and team 2 from 7 to 12.

EDIT: Btw what are objectives for both teams ? Killing enemy main building ? And how looks progress ? I want still to make good if not perfect mp otherwise there isn' t point doing it. Terrain must be good, ships, objectives understandable, and beginner friendly.
These weapon types a bit scare me- nature cannon ? maybe a bit more realistic weapons. I would suggest to make that weapons require ammo and we would do shop for ammo also.

 

[Thanatos_820]

Demon, as I said in my PM in the last few days, I don't have the map (Obviously). The last time I worked on it was about 1 and a half weeks ago, I didn't do anything else to it then. And if anyone asks why I was inactive, don't bother asking, everyone should know anyway.

 

[Miz]

lol Sounds nice so well Thanatos_820 was working "throwing a party with me in the Caribbean Islands"

 

[Sooda]

lol Sounds nice so well Thanatos_820 was working "throwing a party with me in the Caribbean Islands"

I don' t get it. What where you two doing ?
Actually I have finished ordering ships for now (I have test ship moving from base A to base B perfectly and lastly going to main base region also. Everything isunder control from my side.) Neat thing with it is that we can add many regions to make smooth moving (Right now they move too unrealistically, what you want 4 regions per lane I can make it "smoother" by increasing region total ammount what isn t hard anymore.)
I have done team shorting trigger also (Needed for ally thing or attackers.) I realized I almost have to to hole base for our map- it is base. Also I need time intervals when to create ships for both teams (You speaked about difficulty ? There where 7 of them or so. I would like to get all times.)
Example would be:
Easy- every 30 seconds will be ships created
normal every 15 secs -||-
hard every 10 secs -||-
I know maybe they are posted going to see chat log Still if you can post them.
Btw I hope it will not be as unbalanced as DotA. My point is if you want to play DotA play DotA if you want to play BattleShips play BattleShips. So BattleShips dosn' t have to equal DotA. I' m trying to acomplish that. Say your opinion.
Btw I got many interesting suggestions. Also I would point out that terrain will be permanent for some time and it would start to anoy people if something is badly done. We are not going to update it dayly, aren' t we ? First version should be as perfect as it can be and I' m willing to work for it.
So what you think about weapons using ammo ? No ammo means you have to buy it. Basic weapons would get free ammo all the time they only have to go and get it. Of course it isn' t so lame back and forward. There would be upgrades what allow to store more ammo on ship.
Advanced ideas:
More things on ship would make it slower
When you sail to same direction where wind blows you get +movespeed and vise versa (how to write it I hope you get the point).
More you got ship crew would give you bonuses (Somehow to edit turning speed, etc. more crew equal to faster reactions.)
Additionally (Would be very hard to do.) it would speed up weapons loading.
Solution:

Max capasity of Load ability is 8 (Default because over 8 isn' t stable and causes bugs, errors, crashes, etc.) It would mean for each weapon 7 alternatives each one has a bit faster cd (I' m not counting base weapon what would operate with 1 unit or 0 units.) and multipling by ammount of weapon upgrades available for that weapon. Still I think it would rock the place even when it is hard to do (Mostly time consuming.).
Still I had idea that some weapons needs more/ fewer crew to operate. that could change that formulae but idea will be same.

Feedback welcomed.

 

[DemonOfNight]

Your speed and ammo things are really good idea but i want to modidfy something... we could make it so more you have ammo, more faster the cannon shoots. ( im not sure if you said it before?) so we could make units be able to carry a number X of ammo and for a weapon X, it would upgrade the attack speed by X and/or the damage by X. Btw, X is a random number!! So if Basic cannon with 1 ammo make 5 damage with 0.80 cooldown, the basic cannon with 2 would make something like 5 damage each 0.70 seconds or adding damage or both!!! Tell me what you think of this idea. For the crew, we could make it that if a crew control a weapon, he have a number of intelligence and if he have like 20 int ( 10 is the starting int) then the crew could be able to improve the weapon. (this would be really hard but...) It would require a trigger like:

Event:
Condition:
Action:
-If then else Multiple functions:
If:
And multiple conditions:
-real int of Unit X is equal or greater than 20
-Player boat as item type of Basic cannon
Then:
-remove Item type of type Basic Cannon
-Create Basic Cannon (upgraded) and give it to playerboat

This would be a trigger thast is similar as this one or a thing that you are able to do with Jass and make something unbelivable for players playing the game!

EDIT: Thanatos was not doing anything, me i tought he was editing the map but he didnt told me that he stopped to edit it and didnt edit it for a week but now, im making the terrain and im trying to do something special that answer to all your question( i removed my butiful waterfall mecanism...)

 

[Sooda]

I have worked with ordering ships (Neutral Extra &Victim, I have to do ally/enemy trigger now so they know who to shot lol it gonna takesome time.) I have found out that there is problem with neutral units and buildings if they attack buildings (From other posts haven' t myself confirmed it. They will try to flee always. Solution was to turn all building into units but it would require new pathing files because default will not work anymore.).

>so we could make units be able to carry a number X of ammo and for a weapon X, it would upgrade the attack speed by X and/or the damage by X. Btw, X is a random number!! So if Basic cannon with 1 ammo make 5 damage with 0.80 cooldown, the basic cannon with 2 would make something like 5 damage each 0.70 seconds or adding damage or both!!!

It is doable but it would require for each X ammount of bullets carried new item (Because we can' t set item cooldown with triggers- only change items/ replace.) I thought you actually use up ammo- one shot requires one ammo. It sounds right now more you got ammo faster you will shoot but it isn' t logical (Have you ever heard of weapon what would shoot faster if it has more ammo ? ).
> Using Int as requirement
Would sound nice, tomes what could increase int would be named to Basics of Artillery Cannons (Something like that and it would give +int, if exids for example 20 int you can use Artillery Weapons because your crew knows how. There should be many different "teaching weapons" tomes.)

 

[Herby]

Some more help^^...

Hi,
i really like playing battleships and with the "no-perfect-version" i have the same problem like you.
So i think the idea of an ultimate battleships version is really great.
I want to help you.. i know you have allready enough persons for creating the
map and i haven't any experience with creating maps for wc3....
But i'am hobby webdesigner and have just many experience with designing and also programming sites. I have also experience in:
-of course to programm sites in php and design with css
-connecting a site with a cms (contetn management system)
-programm things like news blog, guestbook, forum connection....

so maybe i can help ken-m.. (sorry forget the name^^) with the site
If you need this help so just tell me...
I'll be really happy to work on a project like this!!

Greetz Herby

PS:i'am from germany so don't wonder for mistakes in my posts..
PS2: I#am just new here because i registerd after read this thread!

 

[DemonOfNight]

await for mizui reply cause i'm not responsible of the website... for some reasons, i would say no but mizuo is the one who will decide everything about the website... exept for the names and other things!

> Also, for the crew members, we could make a crew limit for ships. This is what i think:

[COLOR="Red"]Destroyer[/COLOR]
This is a big boat with multiple functions.
-This boat have a sail speed of 150 mph (warcraft speed)
-This boat can carry 12 crew members
-This boat have 2000 life
-This boat have a repair speed of 1 each 5 sec
-This boat have a low damaging cannon

[COLOR="Red"]Little Rawboat[/COLOR]
This is a small boat with multiple functions.
-This boat have a sail speed of 350 mph (warcraft speed)
-This boat can carry 3 crew members
-This boat have 500 life
-This boat have a repair speed of 3 each 1 sec
-This boat have a low damaging cannon

And crew give bonus to X things for X boats and more you have, more it improve the X boat. Crew could be hired, like every crew is 5 gold each hour (real warcraft time) (i think its 10 = 1 hour... i dont know)!

 

[SerraAvenger]

First of all, how do you do ammo consume?
I tried it in my ctf map but it didn't work...
And I don't think that it is really good
Because 1. you have to sail back to the harbour if you have no ammo, so it makes game slower
2. You would have to use one ammo type per cannon type, or would it be realistic if you fire a machinegun, a fire arrow and a boulder cannon with the same weapons?
Don't think so


And too, I think ships should have different cargo hold's

So small boats can only have 1-2 items, medium boats 3-4, big boats 4-5 and gigantic boats 6
That would make greater ships lot's more powerfull, and can give smaller boats good abilitys

And to the crew: nice Idea, but how do you wan't to show crew?

What do you think about a small part of the map wich cannot be reached and where the crew is...
So it represents the interior of the ship, one of these places for each ship

The maximum crew is shown by food capazity, the actual crew is shown by food used.
There are different crewtypes:
+ Repairspeed, + sailing speed, + Experience rate, + Maximum life

Crew is amphibic, anf if your ship sinks they are moved instantly to the position of the sinking ship

Then they have to go to the harbour, and go back to the ship...
You would have to make them to wards, and give your ships the ability to tranport wards, and when the ability is used on a crew member wich is on the map this crewmember is moved instantly to the ships area...

And for difficulty - I would not change shipspawn, but the time between 2 ship upgrades
so more later on, if you made it very difficult, only the best can survive becouse ships have very high life and high damage, and are very fast


And how do you want to make weapons?

 

[DemonOfNight]

>ammos.
i think that when sooda said that there would be ammo, it would be infinite ammo, like if you have that ammount of ammo, your gun can shot faster... well im not sure, ask him whats the point of ammos or read the first thread he posted his ammo idea.

>crew.
i think this would be a great idea but me, i tought it would have been great to make it so the boats could transport them... i dont know (ability transport) or something like that...

>difficulty.
i think the spawntime is harder when it is faster cause there are more ship so its harder!

 

[Sooda]

@Herby
>I am just new here because i registerd after read this thread!
Nice to hear that you only registered because of our thread here. You seem to be very professional. I like your atitude and I don' t mind if you team up with Mizuio-Ken. Ask what he would need or agree with things what has to be done. So Mizuio-Ken would not need to work so hard.
Of course don' t hurry with progress it takes time to make map also.

@DemonOfNight
Keep in mind that cargo hold limit (I mean World Editor here) is 8. We can' t go over default limit because it would make map unstable. Otherwise it seems nice (I really like the layout of it. Will it be in tooltips same ?) but I would recommend
changing "This is a big boat with multiple functions." maybe with heavy armed assault ship. Right now it sounds a bit childish. Even you could check actual that era naval ship names or classes.
Smaller ships have fewer item slots totaly rocks, I like it. I would aim reality- ships can' t repair themselves (They aren' t alive, humans repair ships.). Thats why I come out with idea (What I got from reading SerraAvenger post.)
There are different crew members types (What suprise )
To illustrate my idea:
1) Repair mans (They would add each +1 hp regen to your ship.)
2) Navigators (They would give your ship better speed to sail.)
3) Weapon Specialists (Would add each a bit faster main cannon attack speed and/ or critical hit chance.)
There could be more and each one could give additional bonuses (Abilities what makes ship more durable or faster, etc.)
I would like to answer each person separately but I just have to answer SerraAvenger about sailing back to harbor each time.
As you all know all units can have usual attack. That attack would be for each ship infinite cannon (What dosn' t require ammo.). Ship crew would give stats to that weapon. Even if your other weapons ammo is used up you still have ships default cannon (Default attack). Don' t missunderstand me here crew will give bonuses to default cannon (Attack) and to ship. It all depends what you want to boost on your ship (Def then get more Offensive crew members or agressive- get more members who gives boost to default cannon and fewer to ship itself.).
@ especially to SerraAvenger and everyone else
This idea would end up by all Advanced Weapons using ammo. Each Advanced Weapon would require ammo and you can have in ship what has 6 item slots max 3 Advanced Weapons. There are available to buy additional items what increases max ammo capacity. Also we could set no limits to ammo packs. I will explane it:
When you buy Advanced Weapon A it requires ammo for Advanced Weapon A. But there isn' t any stacking restriction to charge limit (It can go up to World Editor limit, lets hope it is 999 or atleast 99.).

>would it be realistic if you fire a machinegun, a fire arrow and a boulder cannon with the same weapons?
As you can understand for now answer is no, each advanced weapon requires different ammo. But some Advanced Weapons could use same ammo. Still that would require player to choose which weapon would fire at the time. Means that additional JASSing. We can do so these two weapons use same ammo simultaneously.
>The maximum crew is shown by food capazity, the actual crew is shown by food used.
I would do it as ordinary load/ unload units. Because it can be done with abilities what keeps attacking available and you can choose targets at same time or whatever do (Like normal unit.). It means we should do it like that. That allows you to buy actual crew units from Mercenary Shop and load to ship.
>Crew is amphibic, anf if your ship sinks they are moved instantly to the position of the sinking ship
Thats what I' m speaking about. It would be fun (Atleast for enemy) to shoot your floating crew.
This again leads to question what can crew do when they are out of ship ? They could have all repair ability so your crew could repair ship faster (like Peasants repairing Town Hall.). Still there we have to make check that they would not repair ships in water (It requires land to repair ship- crew members have to be on land.). It prevents ability abusing.

>You would have to make them to wards, and give your ships the ability to tranport wards, and when the ability is used on a crew member wich is on the map this crewmember is moved instantly to the ships area...
I don' t get it perfectly but some of it whats needs to be sure. It would add to game whole new micro level- ordering units inside ship to do something. Also it would be very interesting to see actual ship from inside and run inside it. It could be useful when we deside to add it Single Player RPG fragments.

Now I can tell again about my progress. I have managed to do ally/ enemy system. It wasn' t even hard but some silly mistakes what isn' t caused even by me prevented me to finish it faster.
So far we got fully MUI ordering system (Ships actually can attack- move on lanes freely.). They are properly allied and know who are their enemies. It even looks like Battle Ships now.
I' m going to work with difficulty choosing next weekend (My school vacation has ended and I got much to do in school.).
I would like to have though map this weekend so I could implement my so far made work. I sure hope it will suprise you all. Can' t wait unti l I see edited terrain what has done by DemonOfNight. I hope it' s good.
I strongly demand that DemonOfNight reads this post (it would not hurt if others also.) because I have alot suggestions and ideas what aren' t certainly bad. Even I see Battle Ships like that in my vision isn' t it good ?
There isn' t point to add GUI triggers because I have to do these things anyways from scratch. I even don' t like hybrid GUI/ JASS, they can be for debug but not sertainly in finished map.
Thing should go like this you give me needed things (What you would like to see in map and I find way to make it in JASS.). Still I can' t make wonders with JASS (Go over World Editor limits.).
If we need anyone more then it would be one good (I mean really good) JASSer. When you make very complicated GUI trigger and you want me to change it to JASS. Then keep in mind that I need to create it from scratch again. That makes all your work pretty pointless. If it' s for debug then ok I understand.

OFF topic: Whoa thats one huge text wall

EDIT: Btw when we use my idea what i thin kwe should use because nobody gives a dam about default attack display. We can move many ship stats to multiboard I guess also. So what can' t be seen when you got crew on ship. When Ship is sank they crew would float nearby it like when Air Transport is destroyied. They can swim you know.

EDIT: Just to mention my longest post ever on this site (What is well just a post.).

 

[DemonOfNight]

omg, it took me a damn 10 mins to read your post im going to buy glasses twomorrow... joking!! well, i readed ALL your ideas and agree with them. i have to give another one before i send the map with some of the terrain finished... this is a multiboard idea:

At the start of the game, it shows a voting multiboard (i can make it with we, i dont think it is so important to do it in jass) after, when everyone voted, or after a certain time bewcause sometime persons are afk so they cant vote! well, i want to say that after this, the multiboard is kill/death multiboard. IF a player type something like : -boat information, it shows everything related about boat, sail speed, repair speed, hitpoint, vice versa. I also think that we could do thing like net worth, like if a player have that number of ships killed or a niumber of ennemy olkayer boats killed, the net worth up by X and everytime a player repeat this action the net worth is greater. After a certain ammount ( not the same as empire gold ) the player recieve the number of cash he is supposed to have (net worth) and then everythime a player receive it, it returns to 0. its like, if you are able to kill a number X of ships Or of ennemy player boats, you can win a ''special price''.

Ok if a player say something like : -display crew information (or just info...) then it shows a multiboard where is writen the info about how much repair cre4w you have, how much captain crew you have, ow much... and vice versa. (there should be another mnultiboard for net worth, but i think it would be better to make it so if a player write a mess like -net worth, a text is displayed cause a board could take too much place for nothing...)

>Map
Let me the time to make own player inside boats thing to the map and after ill give it to you sooda... i hope yoiu will like my work with smoothing. Btw, im sorry, i gotta destroy your stylish fountain... too bad!!!

EDIT: the map as really changed from the last time you saw it to today!!!

 

[Sooda]

>If you are able to kill a number X of ships Or of ennemy player boats, you can win a ''special price''.
Kingdom revards you maybe ? It would work as strikes in DotA (Really from Unreal Tournament.). Whats net value ? Something to do with exchange ?
>At the start of the game, it shows a voting multiboard (i can make it with we, i dont think it is so important to do it in jass)
I have never done multiboard in my life not even with GUI. Also we could do voting with dialogue boxes what you think ? It would show time remaining and current mode what will come (Would count so far voted players votes and displays so real time. People could deside then would they make with their vote game harder/ easier or longer/ shorter.).
I thought showing crew and capacity of ship like in melee map (Where you see your food used.)
What kind of abilities ships have ? how many ability slots they use ? We could show ship info with Spell Book (If we are not going to disable it.). It works like this in Spell Book there are passive abilities what gives bonuses your ship (These abilities comes actually from crew members.)
For example:
You got 2 Repairmans there would be passive regen with 2 hp per second
You got 5 Weapon Specialists there would also be passive ability what gives x chance to do critical damage (I don' t know how much each crew member gives % to d ocrit so I used value x.).
You got 1 Navigator and there would be passive Speed Aura what would give 10 % faster movement.
You get idea ? So we could spare multi-, leaderboards and you don' t have to toggel them so much also.
Each passive ability requires 8 versions (Crew limit is 8.)- it' s really simple if we do it like that.
>Let me the time to make own player inside boats thing to the map
So you plan to make all ships interiors ? Keep in mind what happens when all players want to buy one ship ? For that check tutorials how to copy paste terrain.
>Btw, im sorry, i gotta destroy your stylish fountain... too bad!
I hpe what you have done looks better. Try to not mass doodads (Map should load as fast as possible and lower machines can' t handle so much doodads like mine. Keep doodads ammount low.
>The map as really changed from the last time you saw it to today!
Good, you can send me map next friday then I' m aible to work with it. I don' t work with map in week only on weekends.

 

[DemonOfNight]

i dont know where in the world you live but me, today, its saturday so if you want the map this weekend, i can give it to you cause i have to make a movie for the school!!!

 

[Sooda]

I live in Estonia it' s in Northen Europe.

 

[SerraAvenger]

I'm from germany, mid of europe


So once again about the ships spawned:
-Each ship you kill gives you gold, doesn't it?
so -> the more ships are spawned -> the more ships you can kill -> the more money you can get -> the better weapons you can buy -> the faster you can kill spawned ships -> the faster you get money -> the faster you can buy a better weapon, and so on...
So if you want to make it harder, don't spawn more ships - make them stronger, so they do more damage and live longer

Well it is easy to make crew giving/increasing abilitys.
Look at my Kamikazemap how I did it with the items and skills
You would have to do it both sides (with selling crew)
And what do you think about fisherman crew (that give income?)
Every 5 seconds + 1 to gold, or st like that

And to your reward - I don't think that this is a good idea...
You should reward those who die often, or the team that dies often - to balance the gameplay

And we could divide the income of the cpu players under the human players
This would be easy in GUI
And the team that is better looses income to the lesser team
so
Events
- Real(team1kills) gets higher than Real(team2kills) + 5
- Real(team2kills) gets higher than Real(team1kills) + 5
Actions
- If/then/else
-If team1kills is equal to or greater than team2kills
-Then divide 100/team1kills*team2kills% of player 12(I think that it is 12, but I don't know - it's the cpu player)'s income to player 11
For each integer A from 6 to 10 -Divide [100-100/team1kills*team2kills]/team2players of player 12's income to player(A)


And well for team 2...

 

[Sooda]

>-Each ship you kill gives you gold, doesn't it?
so -> the more ships are spawned -> the more ships you can kill -> the more money you can get -> the better weapons you can buy -> the faster you can kill spawned ships -> the faster you get money -> the faster you can buy a better weapon, and so on...
Good point, I personally hate also more spawns because it starts to lag after a while or if there are too many of them. I agree your right.
>Look at my Kamikazemap how I did it with the items and skills
Maybe I check where I can find it ?
>And what do you think about fisherman crew
They can' t sell fish in middle of ocean do they ? Maybe rename them Pirates (eh eh) and they will give bonus to Pillage ability (Targets would be other ships buildings.) Would be nice ? So they rob goods from others.
>You should reward those who die often, or the team that dies often - to balance the gameplay
I agree again we should do like that when you manage to kill some badass ship (Or who is currently on strike) you get bonus gold, etc.
>And the team that is better looses income to the lesser team
It sure makes game time longer. I don' t agree.
>- Real(team1kills) gets higher than Real(team2kills) + 5
- Real(team2kills) gets higher than Real(team1kills) + 5
Btw if you haven' t read my last post we got 6vs 6 AoS with Neutral Players as AI controlled support ships.
Let me do triggers We can just turn bounty on for Neutral and who ever. then periodically will share all colected gold by AI ships between players. Fair and performance frendly. That would be Kingdom pay for it's hired captains (Players).

 

[SerraAvenger]

Ahhhh
I didn't know that you use Neutral, I thought 5 vs 5 with one cpu player each
but....
Ehhhmm how do you the want the players to attack neutral?
Wether all players attack the same ships
Or the players won't attack any ship

And to the Ammo:
how do you want to realize that?
I mean the ammo consume
I really need it for my ctf map, that is almost finished...
And my Kamikazemap is found HERE
it's name is kamikazefly01
well there are still some tooltips wrong, if you find one or a typo pm me and tell me
And it is a selfmade map, it will take some time until you are able to build a hero, and you can give him his abilities in the Laboratory/workshop
You get money by buing peons/workers, and the only way to destroy buildings are destoyers/steam engines or the Kamikaze! ability of your hero^^
And your income DOES NOT INCREASE with the number of killed pirateships!
So it is better to hide than to fight against those, only needs ressources
If you think one of the races is to strong, tell me...
Greets Serra

 

[Sooda]

>Ehhhmm how do you the want the players to attack neutral?
No problems it works like DotA creeps. All are nicly allied and knows their enemies.
I check your map maybe then when i find time.
>I mean the ammo consume I really need it for my ctf map
I suggest to check out Chocobo' s contest about shooting systems. I don' t have time right now to think about it but I try to find a way. Btw Emilrj3 did a JASS functions what detects not detectable autocastable abilities fireing. You have to figure only out how to combine it with removing one charge every time.

 

[DemonOfNight]

herm.. sooda, i sent the map via e-mail, tell me if you still like it. and for the ship interior, its the little box i havent finished in each cornaer of each base and dont worry because i tought we couldve put blackmask to make it lil hareder cause if you are able to see all the map, its not nice to play it ( this is what i think) and yeah, a TD or a Hero Wars is good without black mask but ithink aos map need black mask and fog of war!!! tell me what you think of it (dont diseable the black maske trigger till we havnt finish the map!)

I needed to say that if you dont like my triggers (spawning ones and dialog 2), you can remove them and introduce your jassing to the map.