Doubt holocaust!

[C-Death]

@Faust:
Though I do disagree, you do bring some excelent points. Though, the whole hating germans thing kinda pissed me off, but, it's the internet ^^

 

[Frozenhelfir]

This kind of sounds like the 9/11 truthers, but in a different time frame. I don't think any government could stage the holocaust and make it work. They would need millions of people including all of the family members to agree to pull this off. I don't call people monsters for doubting the holocaust, but for every event there are conspiracy theorists doubting its credibility. I haven't looked at the website, but that is probably what it is :|

I do, however, think it is interesting how harshly Germany "regulates" thoughts regarding the holocaust. This might be the thing that gives people the main justification for believing it never happened.

 

[TheDamien]

Sorry for the long post, but this Holocaust misinformation needs to be put to rest. There are a lot of bullshit conspiracy theories out there, but Holocaust denial is one of the lowest.

Try to actually think about it and do some minor research... You will say "hey wait a minute... this just doesn't add up!".

Here's something that doesn't add up: You find some website to be more trustworthy than the words of millions of historians, teachers, survivors and witnesses of the Holocaust.

The Red Cross, hardly a prejudiced organization, reported there were no proof of such jew-extermination facilities.

So you read this, and you don't bother to verify it? You don't even bother to find out what the ICRC's opinion on the Holocaust is, or what they think about the total misrepresentation of their WWII reports by Holocaust deniers?

The Red Cross delegates surveyed only a handful of camps and were not shown the full extent of the facilities. Obviously the parts that were off-limits included the crematoria, where the gas chambers and ovens were housed.

Fred Leuchter, an Americal gas-chamber construction leading-expert, said that the facilities could not be used for such tasks.

This is such a laughably poor standard of evidence. You don't even say why he says what he says. The mere fact that he says it is supposed to be enough?

Crematoriums can't operate 24 hours a days, even if you really really needed it, 12 hours a day is the maximum.
Even if it was 24 hours, still insufficient to burn so many.

Not all victims of the Holocaust were burnt. Many were buried. The Holocaust was not just gas chambers, and it was not just Jews. It was a systematic, state-wide culling of not only the Jewish people but also of homosexuals, the disabled, the ethnically Polish, Gypsies, Communists and many others. Many of the victims died from forced labor, or were killed by the Einsatzgruppen. Some even died from cruel human experimentation.

When the Institution of Historical Review offered 50000$ to give to anyone who could prove that there were gas chambers and in it Jews dying in Auschwitz, no one handed in any proofs, but the organization was sued by a "survivor" for 17 million dollars.

The survivor in question offered proof in the form of a certified personal account, and the "Institute for Historical Review" refused to pay up. So he took them to court. The judge decided that the Holocaust was an incontrovertible fact and ordered the Institute to pay the reward money plus an extra $40,000.

Don't be fooled by the official sounding name, by the way. The Institute has no credibility among scientists or historians, is dedicated almost entirely to Holocaust denial, was founded by anti-Semites and has ties to neo-Nazi organizations.

Do you know those black and white pictures? An extremely skinny person in dirty robes, dying...
What does that picture say to you? NOTHING

Pictures alone aren't meant to be infallible evidence. What matters is that they are corroborated.

Typhus epidemic, as it was present. It killed plenty of Germans.
Such an absurd to think the Germans were living in shiny houses and streets happily during the war.
They were too dying from hunger, as blitzkrieg failed...

Another victim of typhus?

Look into some demographics. There are records of Jews census before and after the way. Guess what? It wasn't even NEAR 6 million. If I remember correctly, it didn't even reach 30000 (what do you expect in an epidemic? duh).

I don't even know what you are trying to say here. The pre-war Jewish population in Germany was well in excess of 30,000. Nazi census placed the (ethnically) Jewish population at around 600,000. At any rate, the 6 million Jews killed were not all from Germany. Many of them were from Poland and Russia.

There were NO, absolutely zero documents, any written orders of any German officer, or Hitler for that matter, concerning the extermination of jews.

This is simply false. Hitler received reports from the Einsatzgruppen (Death Squads) in regards to Jewish extermination. Himmler himself wrote to Hitler on this issue. Captured Nazi documents indicate that officials were well aware of the "fundamental order" to exterminate the Jews in Poland and elsewhere. There are memoirs, confessions, diaries, phone calls, forensics, personal accounts, the bodies of thousands of victims. What more evidence do you want?

All the allied forces had, are a few verbal confession, all after torturing the officer. <- it was later confessed by allied soldiers, and they were silenced... uhh, wonder why...

A few? There are hundreds. Hundreds of confessions from Nazi guards, high ranking officials, Allied and Soviet POWs. Are all of these confessions the result of torture?

 

[Aqua Dragon]

One thing I really don't like about this Holocaust Denial idea, is that it also allows the advocation of the the Earth being flat. After all, the reasons for denying the "obvious" are rather similar, having to rely on a bunch of made up theories that somehow manage to work

In any case, I agree with what most others are saying - there are just WAY too many witnesses of everything for this to possibly be a lie. I've read books, watched movies, saw testimonies on tape from many many Jewish people. There just seems no way for that to be fake.

 

[Dr.Jack]

The Holocaust was very, very real. The only ones to publicly deny it do it due to interests (Ahmadinejad?). There are too many story of the horrors. Too many survivors and witnesses. Too much evidence. Believing that this is a conspiracy or exaggerated is not only naive, not-based and imagery but you need some cruelty to really believe that conspiracy could be made around the deaths of 6+m. You are talking about the death of 6m Jews not to talk about the handicap, african, gays and more. A whole generation was corrupted due to one man's actions. If it is true the fact that no direct orders were found that is due to the German's efficiency.

It seems like you base you opinions over one not much of a trustworthy source. I really suggest you go to some museums or historical sites to learn more and see proofs. Read some survivor's stories and deepen your knowledge. And don't believe to some random sites and articles. Read trustworthy materials. The amount of evidence to support the Holocaust's story as it is is much bigger than the amount of evidence to contradict it.

 

[thewrongvine]

You can argue over anything if you want to. The real question is why you want to. Does it bring supiority when you feel that you are the other few percentage that doubts something?
Just saying. Whether it happened or not, we don't want "it" to happen again.
I suppose that's off-topic, so anyways.

You have evidence, but that's just tiredsome research for a cause you want. I believe the Holocuast happened. There's so much evidence, plus survivors. Yes, there's a chance and it's possible that people are just crazy and the Jews and others being targetted just died to some disease and sickness and stuff, and that there were less then a million Jews total there, but it's not probable, and that's what matters. Doesn't matter if people and evidence line up 49% fake and 51% real, the 51% wins, and therefore it is real. O.O No I don't believe in what I just said at all but it helps the side that Holocaust is real

And where do all these events happen? The Night of Broken Glass or whatever, that's a good story to be made up.
And besides, you're saying that death camps didn't kill like 6 million Jewish people along with a few other million of others. That's correct. But it's not just from death camps, they had concentration camps, beatings, hunger, and other things that added to the kill count.

It's kinda hard to believe in not believing that this Holocaust never happened. Same thing, in 50 years, people will say, "911 was fake, it never happened." for example. We have pictures and videos? They'll have 3-D images that appear around, so clearly photos and little computer videos could just be made by people trying to explain this tragedy which was just an accident in the building.

~Hai-Bye-Vine~

 

[KillerChi]

I very much dislike Germans

I hope I misunderstood that, do you mean certain Germans or what?
'Cause I'm German. In my county, They're the biggest ethnic group. I'm assuming I misinterpreted that.

The Holocaust had no documents for a reason, it was top secret.

Who says crematoriums can't operate 24/7?

I do believe some of the things the officers did, we wouldn't know, noone would listen to them. All you have is the survivors and massive guesswork. Some of the exact details we don't know.

You do have a good point, a conspiracy can only go so far. By the way, concentrations camps didn't include just Jews.
Opening the spoiler box may disturb you as to who it was.

Spoiler

-Anti-NAZIs.
-Gays
-Jews
-Freemasons
-Disabled people(Physical/Mental)
-+others

If you visit the National Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington D.C., you won't be the same person after.

 

[DeadMan]

I'm interested in all kinds of things. This is just another poor and sad try to find someone here with a sane and self controlled mind.
Someone who is not told what to believe.

I am just gonna say 2 things here, both of which will no doubt generate HUGE amounts of hate mail towards me.

First off, you comment about a "sane and self controlled mind. Someone who is not told what to believe." I have to ask 2 things here, 1) are you religious and 2) Do you share religious beliefs with your parents, or whoever raised you if not them. The first question is because the evidence against religion is so strong that out of world acclaimed scientists less than 10% is religious. The second question is because if you do share a religion with whoever raised you it probably means you were indoctrinated as a child and never bothered to decide for yourself. :thdown:

Now the second thing I want to say is that I am a blood relative of Rudolph Hess, and if you can prove he didn't order the deaths of millions of Jews in Auschwitz than by all means do so. :thup:

 

[DeadMan]

I do, however, think it is interesting how harshly Germany "regulates" thoughts regarding the holocaust. This might be the thing that gives people the main justification for believing it never happened.

The reason behind this is that the Germans don't share the American need to glorify massive wars. If the main front had been on American soil, with millions of Americans dying to gain a few miles of ground while being commanded by a man who was hated across the globe, as well as suffering from syphilis, then the Americans wouldn't have WWII movies and games. The Germans want to move on because, Holocaust or not, WWII was not a good time in German history. Also if your looking for a government that doesn't want to talk about WWII ask the Japanese about the Death Marches.

 

[hi_im_bob]

Faust it great to doubt things but when you have shown 0 citations your argument completely falls apart. First I would suggest you read Night by Elie Wiesel, if that doesnt do anything for you here are a couple documents that disprove your "no nazi documents" theory.

http://www.pd.infn.it/~dorigo/holocaust1.jpg

http://shamash.org/holocaust/

now found some real facts instead of your baseless ranting to counter this information

 

[Bronxernijn]

And this is a photoshop from '45.

WARNING: MAY CONTAIN CONTENT INAPPROPRIATE FOR CHILDREN.

Spoiler

Feel free to remove this image if it is too graphic.

 

[Varine]

They show that in school and on the history channel so I'm sure it's fine.

 

[Faust]

Lulz thread still going.
Well, a picture of crapload of bodies don't prove anything. It proves they are dead. Doesn't prove what was the cause of death.
By the way I don't anymore read the thread, so responding to my posts might be futile... but I have a video for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXKHw0EZrqM

If you can lie big enough, you won't be challanged by the public.

 

[Varine]

Your YouTube video proves nothing except that there is some guy bullshitting his way through eight minutes of video.

No, if you lie big enough most people say "You're a fucking retard" and ignore you. Meanwhile a small gathering of people will follow you, but no one actually cares about those people. The guy that said the Holocaust never happened is awesome.

Watch: The Titanic was an inside job everyone.

 

[nabbig2]

There are mountains of evidence and accounts that prove there was a holocaust. It's unfortunate that people like you spend their whole lives trying to deny things like this. What a pathetic goal in life to have.

 

[ElderKingpin]

why are you even doubting something like the holocaust? what possessed you to believe that the holocaust didnt happen. You honestly think that Hitler was above that?

 

[Varine]

Just like I can prove the Titanic wasn't taken down by an iceberg!!!! Come on... believe me....

 

[Azlier]

It WASN'T sunk by an iceberg. It didn't sink in 1912 either, despite what all the survivors say.

It sunk in the 1940's. Hitler sent watertanks to go sink it, and it was a success. Especially with all that extra money from not having to pay for a Holocaust and all. All the evidence and memories of survivors are obviously Axis plots to avoid paying the Allies even more of their soon to be worthless money after the war.

 

[Varine]

Okay that wasn't the proof I had but okay.

 

[Samael88]

I can say that I for one don't doubt the holocaust for a second, it has occured no matter what some stupid people want to believe in it or not. The only thing about it I dislike is that people keep calling it THE holocaust, it is not like it's the only "holocaust" there has been this far

like vikings with horned hats.

This on the other hand is complete bullshit The vikings did where horned hats they used mostly bullhorns and sometimes even other types of horns.
They even found a damn horned viking helmet almost perfectly preserved in a burial tomb a few miles from where I lived:nuts:

You get to learn about the holocaust in school so that you get the priviledge to learn from your ancestors mistakes!