Doubt holocaust!

[Faust]

Why are you called a monster if you doubt holocaust?
These so called "holocaust deniers" are put on a domestic terrorist level...
Ridiculous.

I used to "believe" in it, when I was younger... But then I discovered some people's doubt, theories and such...
Try to actually think about it and do some minor research... You will say "hey wait a minute... this just doesn't add up!".

This is just another history stuff to be corrected, like vikings with horned hats.
Excepts it's filled with global politics.

Which of course/sadly I don't know much about. But that's not the case...

Go to ihr.org, click search, and read. There are plenty of articles concerning holocaust.

What is so monstrous in doubting something? Why exactly is it so unquestionable? You go to jail in Germany even if you just doubt it.

You are told lies.
The so called historic records you were taught are merely the plan of the governments and their armies.

I very much dislike Germans, Hitler was a dumbass, and I have high respect for Churchill and Stalin as well. I don't hate jewish people either.
But, oh god, this is just stupid.

The Red Cross, hardly a prejudiced organization, reported there were no proof of such jew-extermination facilities.
Fred Leuchter, an Americal gas-chamber construction leading-expert, said that the facilities could not be used for such tasks. :nuts:
Crematoriums can't operate 24 hours a days, even if you really really needed it, 12 hours a day is the maximum.
Even if it was 24 hours, still insufficient to burn so many. :nuts:

When the Institution of Historical Review offered 50000$ to give to anyone who could prove that there were gas chambers and in it Jews dying in Auschwitz, no one handed in any proofs, but the organization was sued by a "survivor" for 17 million dollars. :nuts:

Do you know those black and white pictures? An extremely skinny person in dirty robes, dying...
What does that picture say to you? NOTHING
It's all about what is written below it.
It's something like "in a German concentration camp a Jewish person dying from hunger and constant tortures, etc", but what is it's actually a GERMAN person dying from hunger and typhus epidemic?

Typhus epidemic, as it was present. It killed plenty of Germans.
Such an absurd to think the Germans were living in shiny houses and streets happily during the war.
They were too dying from hunger, as blitzkrieg failed...

Why did they burn bodies? Burning the bodies is the most clean and efficient, and most important of all, cleanest way to dispose of corpses during an epidemic.

The soap made of jews theory? Oh come on, how does that actually sound? :nuts:
NOBODY has ever seen or used such soaps.

Look into some demographics. There are records of Jews census before and after the way. Guess what? It wasn't even NEAR 6 million. If I remember correctly, it didn't even reach 30000 (what do you expect in an epidemic? duh).

Jewish were gathered, and made slave. They were working. I don't question the Germans maltreated the Jews.
But collectively killing them? LOL :nuts:

There were NO, absolutely zero documents, any written orders of any German officer, or Hitler for that matter, concerning the extermination of jews.
All the allied forces had, are a few verbal confession, all after torturing the officer. <- it was later confessed by allied soldiers, and they were silenced... uhh, wonder why...

Look at this shit... NO ONE HAS EVER seen jews actually being killed as it is told today. There were no orders. There are no proofs whatsoever.

But why did the allieds go through all this mess? For what purpose?

It's perfect for distracting the world community, taking their attention from what was done BY the ALLIEDS.
The soviets... Denied Katyn massacre until 1989. 4000 Polish personell prisoners were shot into mass-graves (so the Polish army could not stand back up).
And the Gulag?
The first ever strategic bombing against civilian targets was the doing of the British.
Americans?
What about those deportation camps during world war II, interning the Japanese who lived in America?
Roosevelt interned people solely on racial grounds, whilst Germans only with those who they believed or suspected to be against their objective of war.

Who the hell "invented" concentration camps?
Does Boer Wars ring a bell England?
Africander women and children were contained 1899-1902, 30000 died. They were as horrifying if not worse than the German variant.

PLEASE people, wake the hell up. The real proof is all around you. Do some research.

If your post is nothing more than "zomg you monzter I hate you how can you question holocaust omfg", please get the fuck out.

I hope I offended no one.

 

[ArmedCitizen]

Have you ever talked to a Holocaust 'survivor'? I ask this right before I begin devouring hours of research into the site you just linked. As you can probably guess from the question, I have. Personally neither truth concerns me. No relatives of mine were effected, no friends, no one remotely close. The entire event be it staged or planned is just an idea to be pondered not a tangible occurence. When you talk to these people, who claim to have survived. They all have an extreme emotional attachment to the horrors they say they experienced. Still, people in their last parts of life, decades after the Holocaust, fall and weep with strangers when they talk about their past. How do you make that up? Did the American government brainwash their own citizens to accomplish one of the biggest cover up stories in history? That would take more treatment then they could afford in time and resources. Now I'm off to read.

 

[Faust]

I don't say it wasn't horroristic, it sure was and if I were there I'd probably shit my ankles.
Concentration camps were real, jews were gathered and put there, they got a tattoo (like cows), and worked, which is of course ihumane, but nothing like killing 6 million people.
Those survivors didn't see anyone walking into a gas chamber, getting gased and killed, I can bet my balls on it.

The whole thing was a "gossip". The US soldiers were led through these camps and were told that these are for that and that... who then went home, and talked about it to family, friends, and you know, gossips travel faster than warp ten. ^^

And no one can blame a man born around 1900-1920 for not instantly knowing that those structures could not serve their tasks. I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but soldiers are not exactly the brightest ones in a society. Their life is obeying. They are taught never to question an order, or whatever they are told.

I don't need to talk to a holocaust survivor. Actually and usually, it's the outsider, who observe, who knows things better (thinking of a historian).

I could ask a survivor about horrors and what not. He or she will tell me all about it, will tell me about the gas chambers and crematoriums.
But if I ask, if he or she actually seen those in use, and not just being told what they were, the answer WILL BE NO.

Think about it. If you were to see such place, really, there is no way back. Unless people really think the Germans led the jews around the so called chambers and told them they are going to die there.

The rumors say unsuspecting jews being forced there, according to the legend, they were told they are taking a shower.
So no one actually knew what is happening before it's too late.
See? That doesn't really add up does it.

And the shower thing... people say the gas was coming out of the showers... which is stupid, the cyklon b gas is contained in cans, you blast a hole in the can, gas comes out.
Doesn't make any sense.
Also, there were no high chimneys to lead the poison gas away, which is quite essential...
Not to talk about the doors of these chambers, which don't close hermetically.

 

[Zakyath]

Then, I want you to explain to me right now. Where did those 6 million jews go? Because we know they were there, and after the war, that they weren't there. Did they just kill themselves? Everyone? Did they go to another planet? They morphed into trees?

Please. Explain. I want to know.

99,99 % of all Historians, who actually studied the manner, believes 100 % that the Holocaust indeed took place. What is it with them? Are they all stupid? Is the rest of the world stupid, but you, yes only you and some of your like-minded, the only ones who can see the "truth"?

Denial of the Holocaust is not scientific, but political. It is a political strategy used against Israel. Using the denial of the Holocaust to get the Enraged masses of the Right-wing and Muslims to want to destroy Israel (that is: jews). Irans President knows this, and uses it.

And if you really want proof that it happened... here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

 

[CatCat]

PLEASE people, wake the hell up. The real proof is all around you. Do some research.

Please don't put it like that.
If you want people to consider that the holocaust may be false then you have to be a bit more objective in your approach.

I believe that people who dislike holocaust deniers think that holocaust deniers deny not because they want to illuminate the truth, but to follow their own personal agenda. While this is a completely reasonable preconception, it still remains a preconception.

On the side note: I really doubt the level of bias put in this post due to the fact that: I cannot really understand why anyone would put such amount of research into this without having a personal stance beforehand.

So if you want to win me over you would first have to vanquish this preconception I (and so many others) have. Perhaps then people will be more likely to read the wall of text that crit me for 23829382.

 

[Faust]

Then, I want you to explain to me right now. Where did those 6 million jews go? Because we know they were there, and after the war, that they weren't there.

Wow.
Are you a time traveler? You went back in time to count them and see them vanish during the war? Fucking awesome.
The weren't nearly as many jews.
Actually, in Germany and other regions occupied by the Germans, the total amount of jewish people was not 6m.
So you think jews actually came to die from farther countries? Lol
There weren't as many people. You can't imagine how much place they would hold up, can you? There was a census, before the war, after the war.
Unless the 6m came into existence during the war, I don't know how that could happen.

99,99 % of all Historians, who actually studied the manner, believes 100 % that the Holocaust indeed took place. What is it with them? Are they all stupid? Is the rest of the world stupid, but you, yes only you and some of your like-minded, the only ones who can see the "truth"?

I wanna see your oh so many historians

Denial of the Holocaust is not scientific, but political. It is a political strategy used against Israel. Using the denial of the Holocaust to get the Enraged masses of the Right-wing and Muslims to want to destroy Israel (that is: jews). Irans President knows this, and uses it.

That's a load of bullshit... And as for myself, and as I said, I have no problems with Jews, Israel, nor with the Muslims either.

And if you really want proof that it happened... here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

Right... because if I put something on wikipedia it instantly becomes an unchallengeable truth... Probably that's why the pages can be edited, right?
Brb I'm going to make an article how the zombie Micheal Jackson was a saint and a nazi and got abducted my aliens led by george bush.

I believe that people who dislike holocaust deniers think that holocaust deniers denying not because they want to illuminate the truth, but to follow their own personal agenda. While this is a completely reasonable preconception, it still remains a preconception.

You think Institute of Historical Research are made by anarchist, narrow minded people, nazis?

On the side note: I really doubt the level of bias put in this post due to the fact that: I cannot really understand why anyone would put such amount of research into this without having a personal stance beforehand.

I'm interested in all kinds of things. This is just another poor and sad try to find someone here with a sane and self controlled mind.
Someone who is not told what to believe.
As I stated before, I don't like nazis, I hated hitler..
I'm a strong left wing communist, authoritarian.

 

[Zakyath]

You didn't even answer my first question.

Well, give me a reliable source of how many jews there was before the war and after and I will believe you.
According to jewish researchers it seems a whole lot of them disappeard. This of course isn't 6 million. You're right. It's closer to 5 million: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/worldpop.html

And by the way, it's said that only about half of the jews were killed in the big concentration camps.

 

[Faust]

Ugh... maybe you missed the fact that jewish families and people still get significant money as compensation... why and who the heck would they say that "ah it didn't happen, here, take all my money back"? Not even me.
The sources you want me to post, are quite hidden or non-existant on the internet, you would have better luck in a library.

You don't really need to believe me, as it changes nothing. But I think I'd rather believe an independent organisation, that works with history and actually do some deep research, than the government controlled army, a handful of so-called scientists, and the MEDIA.

I said a lot of things in the first post... read it. If you think everything is perfect and logical as it is belived today, then I'm truly sad.

Jews were slaves...
Who kills their own workers?

 

[Zakyath]

>Ugh... maybe you missed the fact that jewish families and people still get significant money as compensation... why and who the heck would they say that "ah it didn't happen, here, take all my money back"? Not even me.

Oh, okay. And why is this relevant? Say someone hits me, and I report it. If I get money from the guy who hits me, does that mean that I didn't get hit?

>The sources you want me to post, are quite hidden or non-existant on the internet, you would have better luck in a library.

So you don't have any source for what you believe. So it actually isn't based on facts.

>You don't really need to believe me, as it changes nothing. But I think I'd rather believe an independent organisation, that works with history and actually do some deep research, than the government controlled army, a handful of so-called scientists, and the MEDIA.

ifr was founded by a right wing extremist.

You said something about a reward. You know why they were sued? Because someone had evidence which they ignored.

Most of their links are to neonazi organisations.

And even the Organization of American Historians said that they weren't trustworthy.

>I said a lot of things in the first post... read it. If you think everything is perfect and logical as it is belived today, then I'm truly sad.

Yes yes. I read it. You mentioned Fred Leuchter. If you read some stuff about him you should know that his studies around the concentration camps can't be taken serious. He ran around with a hammer and randomly took parts of the walls. Walls he wasn't even sure existed during the war.

And I'm positive that they found traces of cyanide there.

>Jews were slaves...
Who kills their own workers?

Nazis. There's a recording where Himmler says that he wants to.

 

[ReVolver]

Jews were slaves...
Who kills their own workers?

People like Hitler/Stalin who wanted Genocide?


(Warning: Disturbing Pictures! Look at own risk)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Holocaust123.JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e6/Mass_Grave_Bergen_Belsen_May_1945.jpg

Explain how Russian/Brittish/American troops found thousand of these in Auschwitz?

 

[sjakie]

You've got all the right to doubt the holocaust ofcourse, but do not expect to convince me (us, probably, in this case. I highly doubt there are more people on this forum who doubt the holocaust), especially not with the attitude you're showing here. I sort of get the feeling we're being labled as idiots for not seeing the "obvious scheme behind the treacherous holocaust-lie". You put questionmarks next to all what history tells us about the second worldwar. Other than that, I have yet to see your first solid proof.

I've been in Berlin 2 times and visited both the Stasi prison as well as Auschwitz. I've seen some horrible remains of the Nazi reign, seen pictures, films, and even talked to survivors. Lots and lots of solid reasons for me to assume the holocaust did actually happen. And now you expect to "open my eyes" by telling me the Nazi did not make soap out of jews? That the ovens burned 12 hours a day instead of 24? You're pointing out minor flaws in the history books that, even if they are true, do not change the truth. What happened there is horrible and surely real.

 

[Seb!]

Trouble with this one is the fact that photography had been invented. Don't really want to get into this for fear of losing my sanity, but just google a few things like "holocaust" or "concentration camp". Not to mention the existence of thousands of similar eye-witness accounts and descriptions of camps and people that.. still exist? Like you can literally visit these places and talk to these people. Come on, man.

 

[Faust]

Zak made the first relevant comment. Also made me less sure.
The whole point is... as holocaust is taught and known, it doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't care who puts the elements together, but if it's in a different way, in a way that is convinces even me, I believe it. Like anyone would.

The rest has already been answered.

 

[Zakyath]

>The whole point is... as holocaust is taught and known, it doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't care who puts the elements together, but if it's in a different way, in a way that is convinces even me, I believe it. Like anyone would.

I like your attitude more now. I want to recommend something to you. Focus on learning more about the historic facts that are considered "the real thing", because, how much you study the facts that prove it didn't happen, the less cunning do you seem. Because you just don't look up enough what we did think happen. You know what you've been told, and as soon as you hear something else, you begin to doubt, and of course it's much more interesting to be against something as big as this, than believing it happened. But just because something seems slightly solid from one side, doesn't mean that the other side isn't right.

And that soap thing. It started out as a joke. Jews has only been made as soap as tests. I'm sure it only happened a few times.

 

[ElderKingpin]

Why are we coming up with all of these conspiracies and cover-up stories for tragic events that happened, even if it was exaggerated, which the Holocaust wasnt, just because they all didnt group up and go into a gas chamber doesnt mean the Holocaust was wrong. There are other ways of killing people. For example, showers, showers that spray gas instead of water, totally unlike a gas chamber, the Jews never saw it coming. There was even a conspiracy theory for 9/11. There are conspiracies for almost every horrible event in human history. It just sounds like we are trying to convince the world that the people that did these are not as bad as they sound.


Id like to point out that Hitler hated Jews. Period. That means if you are even PART Jewish he would seek out the chance to kill you. Maybe there were not as many pure Jews. But there were many part jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pianist_(film) True story.

 

[Genkora]

No one is forcing you to believe anything. It's just something we are taught in school. Can I personally prove to you that the holocaust happened? No I can't, I am in no way a credible source. But what would anyone gain from such propaganda? If no one supposedly knew about the holocaust until years after the war, then what need would there have been to rally a hatred against Nazi Germany? It's like conspiracy theories and the world trade center bombings. The United States government had so much to gain by blowing up two very important buildings to fuel a war in the middle east, wait, what?

It's the same idea, there is no reason to make up something like this. What about Schindler's list? What about survivors? What about their accounts? I request you don't ask us to pull our heads out of our butts and smell the roses when all you have done is a little research on the internet from most likely non-credible sources. I'm not saying the IHR isn't credible itself, but they pull their data from other sources, and it's those sources you should question.

 

[ReVolver]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pianist_(film) True story.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108052/ Schindler's List (True Story)

 

[Varine]

What is so monstrous in doubting something? Why exactly is it so unquestionable? You go to jail in Germany even if you just doubt it.

Only if your a resident. If you're an alien they put you on the first plane back to your home country, regardless of where it is or where it lands, and get a fine that is equivalent to all of the money that you have on your person, minus one dollar.

 

[sjakie]

Id like to point out that Hitler hated Jews. Period. That means if you are even PART Jewish he would seek out the chance to kill you. Maybe there were not as many pure Jews. But there were many part jews.

The problem is, Hitler didn't just target jews. If that was the case, he wouldn't have reached the numbers he did. He also arrested gypsies, gays, retarded people (both mentally as well as physically), and black people.

 

[Zakyath]

...and socialists, and lots of other poor things. And let's not forget about the 3 million germans that died during the war. They were sent to the front instead of concentration camps. Difference was that they got nice graves and medals.