Campaign Warcraft IV: The New Age - |Map of the Week #10|

[wc3shady]

Hexer in wow?

With the velociraptor caster, its a good idea, but I'm not so sure about it. Tarauntasus (or w/e) - cool, maybe. sort of sounding like jurassic park now, isnt it?

also they dont need to be dino units. i just happen to want the caster unit to ride a velociraptor and the T3 unit to be a t-rex.

 

[captainrads]

I think its in WOW, I don't know it was on wowwiki.

Alright, how about something like this:
Troll Raptor Rider: Highly mobile caster unit, has the Maul ability(Grabs a unit in the raptors jaws, damaging and crippling it. If you wanted, you could make it sort of like devour. You could also make it harmless to friendly units so you can carry them around). Can learn Primal Instincts(Aura or Roar-type ability, increases damage and armor of nearby primal units) and (EDIT) Flying Leap(A jump skill, basically. You could make it so wherever the raptor lands nearby units are stunned or slowed).

 

[wc3shady]

Ok, sorry for no reply in a while guys...

So let me gather all the orc ideas, and my new ones.

New Caster -

[Primal] Velocimancer: Troll riding a raptor, controls the raptor and makes it echo (captainrads idea), and uses sonic energies to debuff enemies and buff allies. Can jump... etc.

[Elemental] ?? Elementalist ??: I dont know!

New Building -

[Primal] Primal Keep: Creates dinosaur units

[Elemental] Elemental Rift: Creates elemental units (IE fire unit, earth unit)

New Building's T1 Units -

[Primal] ??: Need ideas... it does not HAVE to be a dinosaur.

[Elemental] Infinite Spark: Tiny fire that deals little damage alone but can multiply to deal lots of damage.

New Building's T3 Units -

[Primal] Devilsaur: Giant T-Rex that can charge; deals siege damage. Can be mounted by up to 5 Troll Headhunters/Berserkers who can throw spears out of a garrison on top of the Devilsaur.

[Elemental] Granite Goliath (???) : I don't like this idea because its just too bulky and I want elemental to be more... unique? creative? I need ideas. (But, it would be able to turn into a boulder)

EDIT: For the T1 Primal unit, how about a Savage? 0 Armor, less than footman health, but very high damage and health regeneration? (Would be an Orc)

 

[captainrads]

[Elemental] ?? Elementalist ??: I dont know!

I've got you covered here:
Tauren Elementalist: Elemental caster, adept at controlling the elements. Knows Cold Stare(slows a single unit, maybe damages too) and can learn Fiery Passion(aura/autocast ability, affected friendly units get some sort of bonus, probably attack damage and speed) and Calm Before the Storm(long channel, during channel the elementalist takes more damage. The attack strikes all nearby enemy units with lightning, damage depending on either the casters hp or the number of units near it.)

If that doesn't do it for you, I'm pretty sure I've already suggested a bunch of elemental casters.

New Building's T1 Units -

[Primal] ??: Need ideas... it does not HAVE to be a dinosaur.

Oh! I've got a crazy idea!:

Primate: Primitive beast, affected by Berserker upgrade which turns it into an Enraged Primate, which also has the Berserk Ability.

[Elemental] Infinite Spark: Tiny fire that deals little damage alone but can multiply to deal lots of damage.

New Building's T3 Units -

[Primal] Devilsaur: Giant T-Rex that can charge; deals siege damage. Can be mounted by up to 5 Troll Headhunters/Berserkers who can throw spears out of a garrison on top of the Devilsaur.

[Elemental] Granite Goliath (???) : I don't like this idea because its just too bulky and I want elemental to be more... unique? creative? I need ideas. (But, it would be able to turn into a boulder)

I love the Devilsaur thing, but I've got a suggestion for the elementals:
Change the Infinite Spark to a Static Discharge(different name?) which is a lightning elemental, but keep the unit concept the same, it sounds good.

For the T3 elemental, make it a Magma Beast with a "Stone Form" where it turns into a Fiery Boulder with increased hp regen, armor, and a permanent immolation ability. Maybe add an Envelop(Devour) ability to it while in magma form.

 

[wc3shady]

I've got you covered here:
Tauren Elementalist: Elemental caster, adept at controlling the elements. Knows Cold Stare(slows a single unit, maybe damages too) and can learn Fiery Passion(aura/autocast ability, affected friendly units get some sort of bonus, probably attack damage and speed) and Calm Before the Storm(long channel, during channel the elementalist takes more damage. The attack strikes all nearby enemy units with lightning, damage depending on either the casters hp or the number of units near it.)

If that doesn't do it for you, I'm pretty sure I've already suggested a bunch of elemental casters.

Hmm I like it, but with Cold Stare, doesn't purge already slow a unit? His abilities do not have much synergy. Although, the concept did give me idea (im not sure if you posted this before?) but well the Taurens worship the Earth Mother, right? How about a Tauren Stone Warder? Sort of a controlling battle guy, who would have abilities like Rock Wall: Earthshaker ability from DoTA, shoots a wall of rocks out, damaging/stunning units and preventing units from moving past it.

Oh! I've got a crazy idea!:

Primate: Primitive beast, affected by Berserker upgrade which turns it into an Enraged Primate, which also has the Berserk Ability.

!! Genius! I had an edit which gave an idea for a Savage, but this is better. Maybe the Primate could be like half gorilla half orc? Who would have large tusks and would be pretty damn hairy, and it could be similar to the Savage (low health/armor, high attack/regeneration?) and then the Berserker upgrade can make it a Savage, which would make it have faster MS/AS. Awesome.

I love the Devilsaur thing, but I've got a suggestion for the elementals:
Change the Infinite Spark to a Static Discharge(different name?) which is a lightning elemental, but keep the unit concept the same, it sounds good.

For the T3 elemental, make it a Magma Beast with a "Stone Form" where it turns into a Fiery Boulder with increased hp regen, armor, and a permanent immolation ability. Maybe add an Envelop(Devour) ability to it while in magma form.

Static Discharge seems too... it seems like an ability for a gnomish tinker or something. I do like the idea of changing it to a lightning elemental, however, so I think I'm going to make the name Infinite Scintilla.

Also, I like the Magma Beast. So for the actual name, should it be Magma Goliath or Magma Colossal? Anyways for the rock idea... it's good but it's just not what I'm looking for. Maybe an ability called Slag Dissemination, in which the Magma Beast collapses himself and spreads his lava out in a large AoE, increasing regeneration for each enemy unit the Magma Beast is spread upon, dealing damage over time to them as well.

 

[captainrads]

Hmm I like it, but with Cold Stare, doesn't purge already slow a unit? His abilities do not have much synergy. Although, the concept did give me idea (im not sure if you posted this before?) but well the Taurens worship the Earth Mother, right? How about a Tauren Stone Warder? Sort of a controlling battle guy, who would have abilities like Rock Wall: Earthshaker ability from DoTA, shoots a wall of rocks out, damaging/stunning units and preventing units from moving past it.

Yeah, I suggested this a little while back:

Tauren Earthshaker: Melee caster unit with Entomb(Puts a unit in a strong rock prison, making it invulnerable to attack, but the prison itself can be broken, sort of an offense/defense spell depending on how you use it). Can learn Rock Solid(Armor and hp regen bonus, sort of like frost armor) and Hand of the Earth Mother(Either a ward or a strike where a hand of stone rises from the ground and strikes enemy units).

Its pretty similar to what you just said, you can change things in and out as you please.

!! Genius! I had an edit which gave an idea for a Savage, but this is better. Maybe the Primate could be like half gorilla half orc? Who would have large tusks and would be pretty damn hairy, and it could be similar to the Savage (low health/armor, high attack/regeneration?) and then the Berserker upgrade can make it a Savage, which would make it have faster MS/AS. Awesome.

You could call it a Brute, then a Savage?

Static Discharge seems too... it seems like an ability for a gnomish tinker or something. I do like the idea of changing it to a lightning elemental, however, so I think I'm going to make the name Infinite Scintilla.

Also, I like the Magma Beast. So for the actual name, should it be Magma Goliath or Magma Colossal? Anyways for the rock idea... it's good but it's just not what I'm looking for. Maybe an ability called Slag Dissemination, in which the Magma Beast collapses himself and spreads his lava out in a large AoE, increasing regeneration for each enemy unit the Magma Beast is spread upon, dealing damage over time to them as well.

Yeah, I couldn't think of a good lightning elemental name, but yours works pretty well(even if I have no idea what a Scintilla is...).

You could call the Magma thing whatever you wanted to, I kinda like Magma Golliath. I like the Lava AOE thing, but wouldn't it just burn units? It says "increasing regeneration for each enemy unit," which sounds like it helps them, then hurts them. Sounds sorta odd. I do like the idea though, maybe it could have like an outward flare sort of thing before it started to liquidize, kind of like a 360 Breath of Fire. You could also have it split upon death or split in two whenever...there's quite a bit you can do with it.

 

[wc3shady]

Yeah, I suggested this a little while back:

Tauren Earthshaker: Melee caster unit with Entomb(Puts a unit in a strong rock prison, making it invulnerable to attack, but the prison itself can be broken, sort of an offense/defense spell depending on how you use it). Can learn Rock Solid(Armor and hp regen bonus, sort of like frost armor) and Hand of the Earth Mother(Either a ward or a strike where a hand of stone rises from the ground and strikes enemy units).

Its pretty similar to what you just said, you can change things in and out as you please.

Yeah, that was it. I knew you had that idea but yeah I'm not naming it Earthshaker since thats in DoTA and I don't want people to get the wrong idea, I'll call it a Stone Warder (I would say Earth Warder but I think thats Deathwing's old name). I will use your prison idea, and the rock wall idea of mine.

You could call it a Brute, then a Savage?

Brute or Primate... hmm we will see on that. Someone else give a third opinion. I know you're watching.

Yeah, I couldn't think of a good lightning elemental name, but yours works pretty well(even if I have no idea what a Scintilla is...).

Haha my uber vocab. Scintilla means like a bit of something. So like "a little infinity" no one will know what it means but it sounds awesome and that's what counts, right?

You could call the Magma thing whatever you wanted to, I kinda like Magma Golliath. I like the Lava AOE thing, but wouldn't it just burn units? It says "increasing regeneration for each enemy unit," which sounds like it helps them, then hurts them. Sounds sorta odd. I do like the idea though, maybe it could have like an outward flare sort of thing before it started to liquidize, kind of like a 360 Breath of Fire. You could also have it split upon death or split in two whenever...there's quite a bit you can do with it.
Today 07:02 PM

Oh, I meant while in that form, all units that he surrounds with his magma, gives him hp regen. So X hp regen per unit enveloped. The breath of fire thing... a little pointless. How about, Plasmic Collapse; when the Magma Goliath dies, it explodes and damages/stuns everyone around it.

 

[captainrads]

Yeah, that was it. I knew you had that idea but yeah I'm not naming it Earthshaker since thats in DoTA and I don't want people to get the wrong idea, I'll call it a Stone Warder (I would say Earth Warder but I think thats Deathwing's old name). I will use your prison idea, and the rock wall idea of mine.

Well I don't really play DotA so I wouldn't know(I'm terrible at it and everybody hates noobs so there's no way I'll ever get better). I like the Rock Wall thing...makes me think though, this is starting to sound a lot like Necromancer Bone Skills from Diablo II. He's got a Bone Prison and a Bone Wall. I should play Diablo again...but I digress.

Haha my uber vocab. Scintilla means like a bit of something. So like "a little infinity" no one will know what it means but it sounds awesome and that's what counts, right?

It's all about aesthetics...

Oh, I meant while in that form, all units that he surrounds with his magma, gives him hp regen. So X hp regen per unit enveloped. The breath of fire thing... a little pointless. How about, Plasmic Collapse; when the Magma Goliath dies, it explodes and damages/stuns everyone around it.

Ah, ok then, sort of like a life drain thing? I dig it, and the explode on death ability.

 

[wc3shady]

Hmm never played Diablo. Though I will try #3 when it comes out.

Anyways... well I'm fresh out of ideas at the moment. I mean we got orcs pretty much covered and night elves... well I like to avoid night elves. I sort of hate 'em. So shoot me ideas... they make my head hurt. Right now I'm focusing on organizing my ideas to prepare for the melee map (terrain=100%), but ATM I'm doing homework, so the most I can manage is replying.

 

[captainrads]

Well we've got the paths down already I think, and as for the units...we've already came up with a Druid of the Fang, so how about a counterpart to the Dryad? Those things are half elf, half druid already so how about...

Night Elf Centaur: Heavy melee unit with Toxic Weaponry(chance to daze the enemy?).

Even though centaurs are normally creeps, there's quite a bit on wowwiki debating their origins back to Cenarius(or something like that).

You could also add the Wardens(I think that's what they're called...the guards of Illidan's prison in RoC) into the main fighting force and give them some sort of shackling ability.

Another unit I've suggested to somebody(can't remember who...I've suggested so many things...) was the Assassin. This would probably go with the Moonlight Path or whatever, so they would be permanently invisible at night and have a Surprise Attack ability where their first attack would deal extra damage, and maybe they would have a poison dagger ability.

 

[wc3shady]

Ok yeah with the Night Elf Centaur thing, like you said there is a shitload of it on wowwiki... they have a hero in wc3 of one, the keeper of the grove. So, I haven't read it in a while, but here's what I remember... So somehow Cenarius had a bunch of asexual children... Keepers of the Grove (male, heros in wc3 they love nature, night elves, taught them druidism, etc), who were sort of like centaurs but instead of half horse half man they were like half night elf half stag.. a bit of a difference. Dryads are his daughters. Now, one of his sons, Zaetar, did Therazane (earth elemental lieutenant) and so the centaurs were born.

With the Assassin, that's sort of what I wanted the Druid of the Fang to be.

Also, with the Wardens and such, well that's pending (if i make a campaign for them, I might change it seeing as how that was the theme in TFT, and I'd have a new theme).

 

[captainrads]

I suppose the DotF can be an assassin, that would make sense since its a tiger(or panther, can't remember...same thing).

So what if there was another hybrid unit like the dryads? They're half stag...Centaurs are half horse...how about something thats...half bear? MANBEARPIG. No, that's not right...half...I don't know...I'll think of something a bit later, I'll go play WC for awhile and see if I get any ideas.

EDIT: How about half bull? It sounds a bit odd but its the best I can come up with. It could have an enrage ability or a charge ability...dunno, can't think of any other animals that are similar to horses and stags. The only others I can think of are Zebras and Giraffes which are just plain awkward. I guess you could have a half ram or something but...I don't know, maybe I should just give up on this idea unless anyone else has any ideas.

 

[wc3shady]

Half Bull Half Humanoid = Tauren... manbearpig :-O

 

[captainrads]

Ah shit you got me there...any idea on the ram though?

 

[wc3shady]

With rams, it would be a bit awkward with a guy with a ram head running around, not very night elf-like. Also, if you made their feet rams, then that would just be hairy hooves. Too satyr-like. Well, lets think. Night Elves are diverse, mobile units who are primarily range, good harassing, and ambush. What units could do that... and what part of that is left out... I don't have much time right now, but I will elaborate in the future.

 

[captainrads]

Hmm...I'm intrigued...but do you mean what could be added to fit that mold, or what could be added to close the gap they have in their race(not having very strong melee)? If you mean the former, I say do something with trees. I know the KotG already has Force of Nature, but that could be improved upon. Like I suggested on King's project, have treants that can disguise themselves as trees and come alive at whim, that'd make a great stealth/harrassing unit. Plus, it would make decent melee units. I know you don't want to use the same shit, but there's a variations of that idea that could be used. Oh! Here's another idea: Since the Night Elves are all nature-oriented and stuff, there should be more use of animals for them. You could have an owl scout kind of thing where a flock of birds are put in trees. As soon as the tree is disturbed, or an enemy goes near it, the birds attack, kinda like a locust swarm. Maybe there could be a "critter caller" unit that utilizes critters, for either scouts(a lot like the human thing, I know) or swarmable attack units.

 

[wc3shady]

Hmm...I'm intrigued...but do you mean what could be added to fit that mold, or what could be added to close the gap they have in their race(not having very strong melee)?

Fit the mold; I want them to have not very strong melee. Of course, there are the mountain giants, but that sacrifices a lot. Gold, Lumber, and 7 Food. Anyways, all races need weaknesses and advantages. Separate ones. It's what makes them unique.

Like I suggested on King's project, have treants that can disguise themselves as trees and come alive at whim, that'd make a great stealth/harrassing unit. Plus, it would make decent melee units. I know you don't want to use the same shit, but there's a variations of that idea that could be used.

This, with some of your ideas, and my ideas, made me think of something. I don't want melee units, I want Night Elf-like units. How about there's an ability that affects many Night Elf units called Natural Dexterity, or something, where they can jump on trees and between trees. But only on trees, not on ground.

Oh! Here's another idea: Since the Night Elves are all nature-oriented and stuff, there should be more use of animals for them. You could have an owl scout kind of thing where a flock of birds are put in trees. As soon as the tree is disturbed, or an enemy goes near it, the birds attack, kinda like a locust swarm. Maybe there could be a "critter caller" unit that utilizes critters, for either scouts(a lot like the human thing, I know) or swarmable attack units.

They do have a tree for more animal units. Critter caller is just... no. There is already an ability that puts an owl in a tree. Although the attacking birds thing is pretty cool. For the animal tree, maybe they could have... I got nothing. I'll get back to you on ideas.

EDIT - Quick Update, just finished all of the stats for all Undead units, about to add their abilities and heroes. This is all within one night so by the end of the week I will start using the object editor and play with the melee a bit. If all goes well and if I am not delayed (by need of help probably for some hero ability, or extreme balancing needs or something like that), except a release date for the first melee map by some time mid-February. (BETA Melee Map. Start signing up for a BETA spot!)

 

[captainrads]

Fit the mold; I want them to have not very strong melee. Of course, there are the mountain giants, but that sacrifices a lot. Gold, Lumber, and 7 Food. Anyways, all races need weaknesses and advantages. Separate ones. It's what makes them unique.

True, true...hell that's why I love the undead, the ability to use corpses and overwhelm your enemy is awesome. Plus, with Banshees having Possession its super easy to turn your enemy's stuff against them.

This, with some of your ideas, and my ideas, made me think of something. I don't want melee units, I want Night Elf-like units. How about there's an ability that affects many Night Elf units called Natural Dexterity, or something, where they can jump on trees and between trees. But only on trees, not on ground.

Something like Shadowmeld using trees? How about Guerrilla Tactics for the name? Or...Foliage Fighting? I like the idea, just can't think of a name too much.

They do have a tree for more animal units. Critter caller is just... no. There is already an ability that puts an owl in a tree. Although the attacking birds thing is pretty cool. For the animal tree, maybe they could have... I got nothing. I'll get back to you on ideas.

Yeah, you're right, critter caller was a pretty terrible idea.
For the animal tree...I'm not sure what you mean. I'm seeing either an animal that is also a tree or a building that is a tree which produces animals. Assuming you mean the latter, I've got an idea. Maybe it should be a tower-like building, but instead of firing projectiles it releases swarms of critters(autocast abilities?). The kind summoned depends on what you're fighting. For flying units, you would probably want a bunch of birds to come out. For ground units, raccoons? It would be kind of like a locust swarm ability if you did that. If you want just plain units, how about using furbolgs? Of course, those are melee...so how about...
Night Elf Sniper: Requires Guerrilla Tactics(or whatever you want to call that upgrade). Has the ability to move freely through trees and remain hidden. Slow attack speed, high damage, long range. Revealed on attack, but only for a short time.
Night Elf Striker: Requires Guerrilla Tactics. Can move freely through trees without being detected, throws daggers as a primary attack. Has the Assassin's Aim(name?) ability, which causes attacks to do extra damage on the first revealing attack.

EDIT - Quick Update, just finished all of the stats for all Undead units, about to add their abilities and heroes. This is all within one night so by the end of the week I will start using the object editor and play with the melee a bit. If all goes well and if I am not delayed (by need of help probably for some hero ability, or extreme balancing needs or something like that), except a release date for the first melee map by some time mid-February. (BETA Melee Map. Start signing up for a BETA spot!)

Well I've been hanging around this thread quite a bit, I'm down for being a beta tester.

 

[wc3shady]

Something like Shadowmeld using trees? How about Guerrilla Tactics for the name? Or...Foliage Fighting? I like the idea, just can't think of a name too much.

Hmm how about just calling the ability Elude?

Yeah, you're right, critter caller was a pretty terrible idea.
For the animal tree...I'm not sure what you mean. I'm seeing either an animal that is also a tree or a building that is a tree which produces animals. Assuming you mean the latter, I've got an idea. Maybe it should be a tower-like building, but instead of firing projectiles it releases swarms of critters(autocast abilities?). The kind summoned depends on what you're fighting. For flying units, you would probably want a bunch of birds to come out. For ground units, raccoons? It would be kind of like a locust swarm ability if you did that. If you want just plain units, how about using furbolgs? Of course, those are melee...so how about...
Night Elf Sniper: Requires Guerrilla Tactics(or whatever you want to call that upgrade). Has the ability to move freely through trees and remain hidden. Slow attack speed, high damage, long range. Revealed on attack, but only for a short time.
Night Elf Striker: Requires Guerrilla Tactics. Can move freely through trees without being detected, throws daggers as a primary attack. Has the Assassin's Aim(name?) ability, which causes attacks to do extra damage on the first revealing attack.

Oh lol by animal tree, I meant the path that was more associated with nature and the such.

There will be..

Natural Grace - Allows the production of the Ancient of Living Roots (three new nature based units; also upgrades existing "natural" units IE druid of the claw, talon).

Moonlight Grace - Allows the production of the Ancient of Starlight (three new hidden, night, moon, etc themed units; also upgrades existing "moonlight units"

- Oh, and your in beta

 

[captainrads]

Hmm how about just calling the ability Elude?

Yeah, that works. Doesn't say much about trees, but I guess it doesn't have to, the tool tip can cover that.

Oh lol by animal tree, I meant the path that was more associated with nature and the such.

There will be..

Natural Grace - Allows the production of the Ancient of Living Roots (three new nature based units; also upgrades existing "natural" units IE druid of the claw, talon).

Moonlight Grace - Allows the production of the Ancient of Starlight (three new hidden, night, moon, etc themed units; also upgrades existing "moonlight units"

- Oh, and your in beta

Oh....I thought we were calling them paths instead of trees, so that confused me a bit...but now I see you meant tech tree.

I dig the paths, but Ancient of Living Roots sounds like an ability and a unit combo gone wrong. How about Ancient of Nature? Or Ancient of Cenarius?

Have you finalized what the added units will be?

Also, glad to be a part of the beta testing.