Wow, Blizzard has ruined WoW more than I thought..

Xapphire

Liberty, Simply said; a lie.
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Yes, but I'm trying to point out to people what mistakes Blizzard is making, not trying to prove Blizzard isn't god or something.
 

Prometheus

Everything is mutable; nothing is sacred
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Having 10 million people subscribed to your MMORPG @ $15 a month doesn't seem like a mistake to any company.
If there is to be a Warcraft IV, theres going to be stuff that happened in WoW, in it.
 

Xapphire

Liberty, Simply said; a lie.
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Alright, and if What WoW has, is basically the whole storyline, leaving nothing for Warcraft 4, what would the people expect other then more thought up of stories, and bosses. Greater than Sargeras, honestly, unless they just want to make like a Warcraft Futuristic First Person Shooter killing mini Medivhs with wings?.. Not saying thats a bad idea, I bet people would buy it, but haha, what would happen to all the original stories..? I mean they didn't write the books for no reason.
 

Dakho

()[o__o]()
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I don't think they'll ever kill Sargeras. Plus, there are stronger things out there in the world, like the Old Gods.

I admit I know more of the lore than the avera person should :p and I can tell you that even if Sargeras, Kil'jaeden, Azshara, Deathwing, and every main enemy died, Blizzard could still pull out another WoW and make it amazing.

This is my idea of how blizzard should do things:

Finish WotLK. Add one last expansion, then do Project Hydra (Blizzard's unnamed project, most people think Diablo 3).
Pop out a Warcraft 4 to fill in some lore, and then the return of the good stuff, World of Warcraft 2. Using Warcraft 4's new lore, create yet another multi-billion dollar MMO.

That seems the logical 'warcraft' order of things. I don't see why they wouldn't continue this section of their company, as it's the most lucrative.

You keep saying that Blizzard will just pull from it's old material, but I haven't seen it do that yet. The only time was probably involving Medivh in wc3.
 

Xapphire

Liberty, Simply said; a lie.
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I don't see make a "Warcraft Movie" there lol.. I mean only another 5 billion!
 

punwisp

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Everyone seems to want a Warcraft 4 as much as everyone wanted a Starcraft 2. However, how long did we have to friggin wait for Starcraft 2!??!! I lost count >_>

Anyway to me, WoW is a mockery of Warcraft.

Before WoW came out I could talk to my friends about Warcraft 3 (as we all played it, and loved the Editor) and no one made fun of us or anything, we were just normal guys playing video games.

However now, I can't even say Warcraft without having someone point and say, "NERD!" which I tell you, is extremely annoying. WoW ruined most of my Warcrafting experience for me, and I wish it had never been created. I hate getting assosciated with the bulk of WoW players, which are mostly MMO players who care as much about the original lore of the world, as much as they want to get out of their parents basement.
totally agree, for me at school whenever i say warcraft everyone assumes Im talking about WoW, and call me nerd or a immature kid playing kids games...
 

Xapphire

Liberty, Simply said; a lie.
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Agreed. I honestly usually take pride in what I do, for I assume I am mentally stronger then other people, not by playing games, but by thinking about their logics, but when retards stand up and try to prove a point as to how Counter Strike and Call of Duty are for Smart kids, and cool kids, and when WoW is for nerds, though I stopped, It makes me feel bad that someone has even come up with that.
 

Ghostwind

o________o
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People can play whatever game they want. I know many cool people that play WoW, it's only the people who play it all day long that are nerds.
 

Dakho

()[o__o]()
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lol at our school WoW isn't considered nerdy. Our high schools kinda funny the same kids that play football, wrestling, soccer, are also avid fans of WoW and some even magic the gathering (lol).

Some people still go 'oh WoW that's so gay' but I think with 10 million people playing it it's become less 'super ner game' and has shifted into pop culture (south park anyone :cool:) <-- always wanted to use that smiley....
 

joaoac

Active Member
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Agreed. I honestly usually take pride in what I do, for I assume I am mentally stronger then other people, not by playing games, but by thinking about their logics, but when retards stand up and try to prove a point as to how Counter Strike and Call of Duty are for Smart kids, and cool kids, and when WoW is for nerds, though I stopped, It makes me feel bad that someone has even come up with that.
Good point of view.
 

Knight7770

Hippopotomonstrosesquiped aliophobia
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Agreed. I honestly usually take pride in what I do, for I assume I am mentally stronger then other people, not by playing games, but by thinking about their logics, but when retards stand up and try to prove a point as to how Counter Strike and Call of Duty are for Smart kids, and cool kids, and when WoW is for nerds, though I stopped, It makes me feel bad that someone has even come up with that.
So, you think you're "mentally stronger" than other people, but you treat a comma as a period? I think you should just stop complaining, because there's nothing you can do about it.
 

Xapphire

Liberty, Simply said; a lie.
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Alright, thanks for mentioning my mistake. Which isn't relevant to the topic at all. No disrespect, but I'd rather discuss in this topic rather then prove a point straight ahead.

Anyways, I want to see peoples opinions on this topic; that WoW is losing its lore and overall game with WoW, the Expansion, and the WotLK. And not what you can and can't do, but what your opinion is.
 

UberNoober

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I'm not going to go and read 15 pages of forum post, but I did read the first couple of pages and want to put in my 2 cents.

WoW is an MMO. MMO's are weak in story. I think WoW has a good story FOR AN MMO. Of course it's not gonna be as great as Warcraft 3. I've gone into deadmines more times than I can count and killed Vancleef, and so has everyone else! Seeing as there is 10 million players in the game, I reckon he has died at least 10 million times.. don't see anyone complaining about that though!

What would you want WoW to be? Just killing people we don't know anything about? That aint gonna work. In an MMO you progress your character, you always want to kill bigger and badder bosses, so it's just gonna happen like that.

WoW is a seperate look at the story, it isn't ruining it. I think Wrath is looking great for storyline as far as an MMO goes. I am looking forwards to seeing Arthas all the way through the leveling process, and seeing more of the storyline upfront. I loved the warcraft 3 storyline, and the only problem I have with the story in WoW, is that you really have to look deep into the game to find it, or read up a whole heap of crap in the form of quest text.

Also whoever put up the post about pitting 25 footies against a Death Knight. Couldn't have put it better myself.. but I'd go so far as to put the actuall heroes from the Campaign against the footies, and then keep in mind the level 70 (not to mention the soon to be 80) player is much more advanced than a footman.
 

Xapphire

Liberty, Simply said; a lie.
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Alright, but then if everyone is as strong as an epic hero, what's the point of battling epic monsters, who an epic hero can single handedly kill..?
 

UberNoober

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So your changing your argument in that you think we should be able to go up against these epic bosses solo now? lol

[Warcraft 3 Spoilers Below!]

I would count Thrall, Jaina, Tyrande, and Malfurion all as epic heroes and it took all of them together, with the help of their three armies just to be able to buy enough time to set the trap with using the world tree and the power of the wisps to kill Archimonde.

Being an epic hero does not mean you don't need help from others.

My point anyway was that MMOs aren't great at story, and as far as WoW goes I think it does a great job.
 

UberNoober

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Gah, still can't edit my posts.

I'll also point out that I never said that a player in WoW is an 'epic hero', being similar in power to Thrall or the other's I mentioned above. In fact you can see this in game by trying to attack one of the opposite faction's heroes and find out how fast you would die :)

What I am saying is that I believe your max level WoW player is much more powerful than a basic footman/grunt.
 

Xapphire

Liberty, Simply said; a lie.
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Either way, you see in the stories and books that someone like Onyxia would like be epic, or like Nef. He can destroy legions, and legions of footmen, no matter how strong you are, you aren't as strong as an army of footman..? And his breath would like burn cities to the ground, well I'm sorry nef, but you can't even kill a warrior.
 

UberNoober

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Well firstly, to date Nefarian hasn't been soloed, only Onyxia. But the point I was trying to make is that different media formats have different ways of telling the story. In a book or movie you have no limitations whatsoever, but bring that into a game like Warcraft 3 or WoW and then you start seeing those limitations.

Theres two options you could take as a game developer, you could put these guys in as killable people, or you can just make up some random no-names for your players to kill, and I for one would prefer to be involved in the story in some way rather than killing no-names.

Seeing as the story characters are killable, you have to take into the way players are gonna do that. You could have 100s of players attacking a boss, which wouldn't really work realisticly in the confines of the game. You could have them fighting alongside 100s of NPCs, but you want to give power to the player, not have half their work done by NPCs.

Other ways in which you could do this that they do implement are ways of weakening the boss, a perfect example of this is Kael'thas changing to a 5 man boss, after he was severly weakened by a 25 man raid group. Or Kil'jaedin being weakened as he is still being summoned to the world.

As I keep on saying, MMOs really suck at story telling, you have issues of players doing the same thing story-line wise over and over again, you have things brought into the game for balance issues, and many other things like that. What I am saying is that I think WoW has a good story, and does a decent job (For an MMO) of telling it.

People want to see characters they know, people want to progress and kill the bad guys, just like in any game you play. Since the dawn of time RPGs haven't really made sense in the fact that you can get insanely powerfull by getting some experiance points and leveling up.

It's just how it is.
 

Dakho

()[o__o]()
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When did onyxia get solo'd? Probably was a private server.... because that just sounds impossible :nuts:

Anyways, it is true that WoW is kind of melting the lore away. When I think about it they could've done some better management of their lore. But the sad truth of WoW is that every single thing in the game is designed to be a long grind. Arena, Battlegrounds, Raids, Leveling, Reputation, Dailies, Professions, BoJ's, Quests.... every thing requires repeating the same step over and over; the defenition of a grind. Unfortunately that doesn't really fit like a glove, when the hand happens to be lore.

I've managed to look past the grinds and just enjoy all the care and features that blizzard put into the game. If you look in the right place you'll find some amazing storytelling. Duskwood quests are brilliantly done, as is Onyxia's conspiracy. There are many gems of lore in WoW, you just need to look hard enough.
 

Ellimistrox

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WoW is Good

I've managed to look past the grinds and just enjoy all the care and features that blizzard put into the game. If you look in the right place you'll find some amazing storytelling. Duskwood quests are brilliantly done, as is Onyxia's conspiracy. There are many gems of lore in WoW, you just need to look hard enough.

I find MANY great quests in WoW! It was not made to be completely about the story but about the enjoyment of achieving the defeat of world bosses and becoming better than everyone else. It's a MMORPG not some single player storyline based rpg. Of course online games can't be completely based around the story line or you could only kill ragnaros once when he drops what, most of the tier 5 pieces?
 
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