Arrow Keys

[xxxtrickyxxx]

haven't really played starcraft 2 since it came out and while im off on break from college just thought id sit down and mess around with galaxy but since im not really an rts person i always try to make random non rts stuff. are arrow keys and mouse still probably unusable online or has there been a few maps or ways here and there to make it less so?

 

[Miz]

haven't really played starcraft 2 since it came out and while im off on break from college just thought id sit down and mess around with galaxy but since im not really an rts person i always try to make random non rts stuff. are arrow keys and mouse still probably unusable online or has there been a few maps or ways here and there to make it less so?

I have heard it has been done in many maps with very little lag. I am not so sure about how many maps are in use of the feature though. However I do know that there are several different ways to achieve Arrow Key functionality. I believe depending on whatever method you use and how large your map is, you will see different results.

 

[celerisk]

I remember some video tutorial from somewhere last year that implemented what he called a "WoW cam".
No idea how WoW works, but the idea was that right click turns the camera and left click makes the unit face that point.
Along with the "usual" WASD keyboard movement (or, at times, its cousin: ESDF).
And some fine-tuning of the timings to eliminate lag.

There's also somewhere a tutorial or so that makes a WASD system in data only, no triggers.
Presumably "no lag whatsoever"...
No, I've never seen it in action.


> I am not so sure about how many maps are in use of the feature

That's an interesting question really.
Problem being that, it seems, a lot of people think "it's totally cool"... and, unfortunately, the camera and movement system is pretty much the only thing they have going for them.
As in, the game play must actually fit in.
That, however, seems to be... "not always" let's say, the case.


So, yeah, it can and has been done.
As for "do you need it"... no idea.

Oh, and, reason there's so many WASD systems out there and few to none on arrow keys, is that arrow keys are extremely uncomfortable to use if you also need "normal" keys at the same time.

 

[xxxtrickyxxx]

thx for the reply... haha i guess when i said arrow keys i actually meant WASD... not sure why i said arrow keys. i designed my own WASD movement which seemed to be pretty good, based it off someones long time ago in beta and still seems to work. my main issue is the camera, no matter what I do the camera always seems too intense. it does not necessarily glitch or anything it just seems as though you have really bad frame rate but you actually don't. i suppose you could say it simply does not feel smooth. i have tried as many methods as I can possibly come up with.

i know what you mean about camera/movement maps being gimmicky because people want to make a SHOOTER out of it and not attempt another more friendly path. hide and seek or chasing games work great with these kind of systems. here is an example link of what I was going to make myself but then realized this guy beat me to it. its called doodad hunt. i can probably do quite a few things better but he mostly got the atmosphere right so I will just have to come up with another map.

[video=youtube;iRl24a3sdX4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRl24a3sdX4[/video]

 

[celerisk]

> I will just have to come up with another map.

FWIW, if you came up with a camera system that didn't give me a headache, as experienced on that video, you'd have a winner.
And, as for "copying"... doesn't everybody?

 

[xxxtrickyxxx]

that video camera gave you a headache? or you mean it was good? i believe he simply lowered the field of view which gives a smoother and faster frame rate feeling. that seems to have solved my framerate problem but it still seems jaggy at times just because of the graphics and the characters animations always look poor from certain angles.

 

[celerisk]

If the camera is jumping into position, instead of smooth panning over time, it's bad. Real bad.

Absolutely NEVER do what most are doing, set the camera angle to the unit angle... every 0.001 seconds.
Instead, pan there, slowly.
No, it's not a problem if it's not instant.
Yes, it's actually Real Good(tm) if it's slower.

Have a look at some random home-made YouTube crap.
Notice what it looks like when they pan the view from left to right?
Compare that with the camera movement in an actual movie.
That would be the point.


On a related note, NOTHING requires a periodic event running every 0.001 seconds.
Just because the average BNet player has 500 APM (while watching his first supply depot going up), doesn't mean he's now going to use it all on his single unit here...

 

[xxxtrickyxxx]

dont have much time atm to reply to all u said but i will once i get home. this is a real quick cam of what i got now. just quickly ported part of it into a crap map for demonstration purposes. let me know what you think, any1 who cares to open it up in editor and test the running around for a min or two.

named it prop hunt not that im going to be doing that anymore though.

thanks

 

[xxxtrickyxxx]

If the camera is jumping into position, instead of smooth panning over time, it's bad. Real bad.

Absolutely NEVER do what most are doing, set the camera angle to the unit angle... every 0.001 seconds.
Instead, pan there, slowly.
No, it's not a problem if it's not instant.
Yes, it's actually Real Good(tm) if it's slower.

Have a look at some random home-made YouTube crap.
Notice what it looks like when they pan the view from left to right?
Compare that with the camera movement in an actual movie.
That would be the point.


On a related note, NOTHING requires a periodic event running every 0.001 seconds.
Just because the average BNet player has 500 APM (while watching his first supply depot going up), doesn't mean he's now going to use it all on his single unit here...

i noticed alot of people too who try to make camera stick to the character as close as possible as fast as possible but just backfires online and causes lag even. i tried to keep a somewhat smooth transition toward the spot moved to while not making it so slow that it annoys you with frequent movement. im still testing it and it may actually still be a bit too fast but it may slow down a bit online due to delay which would make it ok. my goal is to not create a camera that is going to cause lag or delay due to the requirement for precision, when in this case i wont need any of that at all. the map i attached is pretty crude example, but i just simply removed everything but the camera and movement and just made a really fast test terrain to move around with to see how well it works. not much i can improve without any input however.

thanks!

-EDIT-

seems ground texture is the sole cause of frame rate loss. wonder if i can come up with something to lower texture values or make distance textures not load. could have as much on the screen as possible with no framerate loss if ground textures are not being loaded.

 

[celerisk]

> lower texture values or make distance textures not load

Not exactly.

However, a camera comes with some 500 or so options (like everything else in this editor).
Along them being a "blur distance", meaning that as the view gets farther away, stuff gets blurred out.
Presumably that helps (haven't tested it myself, but the couple videos I watched all recommended it. Guess there's a reason they do)
And maximum Z clip if needed, to simply cut off stuff at (too great) a distance.

Of course, that needs a bit of fiddling and testing

Fortunately, those settings are live, so you can, quite literally, see what you're doing.

 

[xxxtrickyxxx]

yeah i have messed around with the ground textures and its a hit and miss. i got the blur your talking about but it doesnt seem to work unless you have high or ultra settings but still have it regardless. for the frame rate issues its largely based on how you position things on the map and the layout.

right now i just want to get some opinions on a matter i am having regarding controlling of a player for a third person game. The objective of the map has nothing to do with shooting but rather "hide and seek / tag" where delay and blah wont matter all that much. My question however, is what kind of control scheme do you think i should approach... traditional WASD and player automatically turns toward mouse direction, or maybe something like World of Warcraft so you have more awareness of what is around you. Or maybe something in between? please give me your ideas or opinions if you can.

Thanks!

 

[UndeadDragon]

I do not think that your camera system would have to be as advanced as WoW (as in, you do not need 360 degrees view in all directions).

To be honest, just having a camera system which would allow me to be able to see what needs to be seen, usually infront of me, without jumping around and without jerky movements would be a nice start to creating a camera system that beats others. (I have yet to find one that I have played which does this successfully).

 

[celerisk]

Oh dear...
Personally, I just hate that free-form-mouse-camera stuff.

I'm much more in favor of "keep the camera behind the unit, but otherwise leave things alone".
Including the option to get up close and personal if you want to, and, equally important, the option to simply mouse-wheel out of a forest or so, in case you get lost in the trees and need a better view.


Hence the following:

 

[celerisk]

And, I'd like to know why .sc2map is an invalid file type... on a SC2 forum...