Discussion in 'Debates' started by Slapshot136, Jan 23, 2012.

  1. Slapshot136

    Slapshot136 Divide et impera

    should males have any say in the issue?
  2. Varine

    Varine And as the moon rises, we shall prepare for war

    ... just wait for it. E-war is on.
  3. Bronxernijn

    Bronxernijn You can change this now in User CP.

    Why should they? I don't see any arguments to support that idea, therefore I don't think males should have any say in the issue. I could give you some contra-arguments, but those are irrelevant until some good arguments pro come up.
  4. Varine

    Varine And as the moon rises, we shall prepare for war

    I can give you good pro arguments, but I don't see those as being relevant as no one has any good reason for why they shouldn't (I mean aside from things like rape and abandonment, there really isn't one).
  5. Seth Cross

    Seth Cross You want to see a magic trick? Staff Member

    Being a father, I can tell you that yes, I do have a say in what happens to my potential child. Just because the mother may not be willing to be a parent, why should the father-to-be automatically be denied the chance to raise his child? I understand the woman is the one who has to go through the process; Getting pregnant is no walk in the park, nor is giving birth. I get that not all women would to go through that, but if the child is through consensual sex where neither party chose to be safe about it or their methods were merely not enough to prevent childbirth... Isn't everyone technically responsible for the actions?

    Yes, women can be on birth control. The couple can use condoms. Hell, men and women can both undergo surgeries to prevent the possibility to childbirth.

    But we're taught from a very young age [especially in today's educational world] that there is only one real way to be 100% free from possible pregnancy... Don't bloody do it. And then you get people saying "it's not fair that someone must be denied sex in order to be child-free" and I respond with "... How on earth is it unfair?"

    Sex is not a human basic need... In today's world, it might be LOOKED upon as a necessity, but in truth, we do not need to have sex to survive as individuals [obviously, as a species, the same cannot be said, but hey, we have kids having kids... I don't think we need to worry about extinction due to lack of procreation at this point] We need food, water and sleep... I think that's more or less it [please, correct me if I'm wrong] and I don't know about you, but I don't see "sex" in that list.

    Some people get along just fine without sex. Some people "can't" help themselves. I find these people to be weak-willed or just weak in general.

    Do I have sex? None of your damn business :) But in all honesty, if/when the situation calls for it, I'm sure I'll survive a dry spell.

    And, as Forrest Gump once said;

    That's all I have to say about that.

    Have a great day, everyone!
  6. Accname

    Accname 2D-Graphics enthusiast

    Everyone has a say in that because everyone got an opinion about it. Or should have at least.
    But in the end its the mother and the doctor who are the ones whose opinions matter.
    I think if you got something valuable to say, do it. Why not? Talking doesnt hurt.
  7. Varine

    Varine And as the moon rises, we shall prepare for war

    Why does the doctor's opinion matter more than the fathers? Can I walk in and be like "I don't want my leg anymore. Cut it off," they don't have to do it. Why are women different?
  8. Danny Cross

    Danny Cross Bunny

    There is no reason the man should not have a say if its his child. If he doesnt want it, than to me its up to the woman if does she want to . If the man wants it than he should be allowed to have it and take care of it.

    I'm completely against abortion in generl though. I feel it should only be used in dire circumstances, not for ignorance .
  9. Accname

    Accname 2D-Graphics enthusiast

    Because he is the one who is giving it.
    He might have a problem with killing an unborn child.
    I dont say he should tell the woman whether to have it or not but he could definitely oppose to do it in his practice.
    In the end, if there is no doctor who is willing to do it the woman will have no other (conceivable) choice as to get it.
  10. Slapshot136

    Slapshot136 Divide et impera

    Im going to remove the pro life/choice, since it seems to make a significant difference (I was worried about the debate turning into a pro life/choice debate)

    except for going for a grey (black?) market/home abortion.. which happens when there is no doctor or when going to one is too expensive/etc.

    also, there exists the reverse possibility: the father does NOT want the child, the would-be mother refuses to take a "day after" pill/get an abortion, is the father obligated to pay child support/etc. ?

    and when I originally posted the debate, I was thinking more along the lines of a political issue, where the would be supportive/unsupported males don't know the child/mother at all
  11. Varine

    Varine And as the moon rises, we shall prepare for war

    Yeah... that probably wouldn't be the first choice of doctor, then, would it?

    And no, Slapshot, they can get out of that by giving up any custody of the child.
  12. FireCat

    FireCat Oh Shi.. Don't wake the tiger!

    No. It does not remove your obligation to pay child support Anyway.
    Unless the child is adopted by someone else. But that's another matter.
  13. Varine

    Varine And as the moon rises, we shall prepare for war

    You can get out of it. I know people that have done it. For the child to be adopted anyway, the father has to give up custody: more or less the same thing I just said would happen.
  14. Accname

    Accname 2D-Graphics enthusiast

    As if it was the fathers vault. There are always 2 people needed to make a child and both of them are responsible if it is unwanted.
  15. FireCat

    FireCat Oh Shi.. Don't wake the tiger!

    It's quite different if you give away your child for to be adoption. But if you are not, It doesn't mean that the obligation isn't still there.
  16. Slapshot136

    Slapshot136 Divide et impera

    we were talking about humans here.. pretty sure it's a requirement

    even so, what if the mother said she was on the pill or something similar - is the father responsible for her lie? or maybe the pill just didn't work, the condom was this one, or similar - people don't always discuss their views on abortion ahead of time
  17. FireCat

    FireCat Oh Shi.. Don't wake the tiger!

    ^ Oh crap, I meant to Quotes this. lol
    Well, a woman who becomes pregnant due to an act of either rape or incest is the victim of a horribly violent crime.
    So in this case. Only a woman can decision if she want it or not in this cases.

    So it means> Abortion should only be legal In case of rape, extremely Medical Issues and if the patient's life is in danger.
    Not due of unsafe sex Or you don't want to pay support.. etc. for the child.
  18. Varine

    Varine And as the moon rises, we shall prepare for war

    Uhh yes it does. Especially if you're a girl.
  19. Slapshot136

    Slapshot136 Divide et impera

    lets inverse this now: lets suppose a man is raped by a woman (it happens.. ) - the woman gets pregnant - and lets assume she is also caught/captured - can the man demand an abortion from her?
  20. Varine

    Varine And as the moon rises, we shall prepare for war

    This is hardly part of the discussion - rape and incest shouldn't even be in the same discussion, they are extreme scenarios that make up a very small minority of relevant cases, and typically are extremely violent crimes that fall into a totally separate category with special exceptions.

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