2011 iMacs are actually a good deal.

JerseyFoo

1/g = g-1
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I realize this has been discussed before (somewhat); http://www.thehelper.net/forums/showthread.php/164359-New-iMacs

However after doing too much research on imacs for my gf's sake, I'd like to present to you all the idea that the 2011 imacs, ONLY the 2011 imacs, are actually a good deal. :eek:

For this example I'm using Apple's most top-of-the-line iMac w/ extended warranty offered in-stores @ $2,368.00. Trying to be as fair as possible.

What you get
  • Device [Model Details] {performance equivelant} (minimal value estimation [<> alternative price estimation])
  • Monitor [2560x1440 LED-backlit IPS 27inch] ($900)
  • Case [custom aluminum unibody] ($200)
  • Motherboard [Intel Z68 Chipset] ($135)
  • CPU [i7-2600] {150% phenom II 1100T or i7 940} ($300)
  • GPU [Radeon HD 6970M 1GB] { > GTX 460} ($200)
  • IGP [Intel HD 3000] {HD 5470 or GT 540M} (n/a)
  • Cooling [heatsink/fan silent] (n/a)
  • PSU [switching, assuming 560W 80 plus bronze] ($80)
  • HD [1TB] ($90 <> $55)
  • Memory [4GB] ($30)
  • Mouse [Wireless 'Magic' Touch-Sensitive] ($70)
  • Keyboard [Wireless] ($70)
  • Wireless Adapter [802.11n 'AirPort' up to 450mbit/s] ($60)
  • Speakers [generic] ($20)
  • Microphone [generic] ($10)
  • Optical [DVD 8X 'SuperDrive', 4x burn] ($20)
  • Web cam ['Facetime HD camera' 720p @ 30 fps] ($30)
  • Bluetooth Adapter [2.1+EDR] ($10)
  • Ports [Infrared reciever / SDXC Card / Bluetooth / Thunderbolt / IEEE 1394 / USB 2 / LAN / Audio] (n/a)[SUP]v[/SUP]
  • Service [3-year warranty w/ technical support, phone or in-store] ($170)
  • OSX Lion ($130)

Pros
  • Stylish, minimalistic, space-saving.
  • Quality, reliable parts.
  • Service, support.
  • Easy; save time, no skill required.
  • No DOAs.
  • Energy efficency, save money[SUP]t[/SUP].
  • Status.
  • Resell value.

Cons
  • Bottleneck; storage.
  • Storage redundancy.
  • Maintence.
  • Overclocking.
  • Proprietary.
  • Price gouging on certain components[SUP]u[/SUP].
  • Probably can't use the iMac as a monitor only. (input?)
  • Most 'Apple fans' have a minor case of serious psychological complications.

[SUP]t[/SUP] For most enthusiasts; 1 watt = $1/year.
[SUP]u[/SUP] 4 GB memory = $200. outdated 256GB SSD = $600.
[SUP]v[/SUP] Thunderbolt ports have value yes, but at the same time they force you to conform.

Null points
  • Buying it for OSX. Apple only releases drivers for the hardware they sell, that doesn't mean you need their hardware to run OSX.
  • Bootcamp reduces windows performance. No, that doesn't make any sense.
  • No good for games? Both the low-end and high-end models run StarCraft II ultra with no lag. It's not Apple's fault that the game companies didn't make it easy for you.

Notes
  • Long battery life on mouse/keyboard.
  • Wireless adapter has amazing range.
  • Educational pricing/tax benefits available.

------

$900(monitor) + $200(case) + $135(mobo) + $300(cpu) + $200(gpu) + $80(psu) + $55(hd) + $30(memory) + mouse($70) + keyboard($70) + wireless($60) + speakers($20) + mic($10) + optical($20) + cam($30) + bluetooth($10) + warranty($170) + lion($130) = $2320.0 + $170(warranty) = $2490

This is all a rough estimate. If you were building a PC, you'd likely get better speakers, memory, and storage -- perhaps scratch the cam & bluetooth. Maybe you'd get a cheap case, a not-so-high quality or as recognized monitor, and pirate the OS. Perhaps you'd prefer to change your batteries constantly for a cheaper mouse or keyboard. You may even prefer juggling warranties from a dozen different manufacturers to keep your preference of choice.

Of course none of that matters as my conclusion here is that 2011 iMacs as silly as they may or may not be -- are not over-priced.
 

Icyculyr

I'm a Mac
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The 6970M is better compared to a desktop 6850 (~$180) which it is based off but with lower clocks and consequently slightly lower performance. You can use the iMac as a monitor, but only with a device which supports Thunderbolt such as the MacBook Pro. You forget to mention that the fans run incredibly quiet when idle and under load :p

Why is "maintenance" a con? You don't really need to do any, ever. Also, how is it proprietary?

A while back I was reading about someone on mac rumors who was trying to replace the GPU in his 21.5" iMac with a 6970M. Interestingly enough, it's much more expensive than a desktop 6850. I saw it priced at $499. Makes me wonder what Apple's margins are on the iMac.
 

sqrage

Mega Super Ultra Cool Member
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>>Bootcamp reduces windows performance. No, that doesn't make any sense.

But doesn't it only run it as a VM?
 

celerisk

When Zerg floweth, life is good
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> But doesn't it only run it as a VM?

What BootCamp is:
- Partition manager
- Boot manager
- Driver package for windows
- Windows Control Panel tool for some basic settings

What BootCamp isn't:
- VM


> what Apple's margins are on the iMac

About $500.


> $170(warranty)

???
Around here, those extra 3 years are €350.
 

Icyculyr

I'm a Mac
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>>Bootcamp reduces windows performance. No, that doesn't make any sense.

But doesn't it only run it as a VM?
No. It's exactly the same as running Windows natively on a PC.
> But doesn't it only run it as a VM?

What BootCamp is:
- Partition manager
- Boot manager
- Driver package for windows
- Windows Control Panel tool for some basic settings
Actually, it isn't a boot manager either. Boot Camp Assistant (which is for OS X) is a partition manage as you said, and the Boot Camp software that installs in the Control Panel on Windows is as you said just for some basic settings. The drivers are just drivers for the hardware in the Mac, etc., which are on the installation disc for your specific Mac model. Confusingly enough, they're all sort of referred to as just "Boot Camp".
 

JerseyFoo

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Around here, those extra 3 years are €350
AppleCare warranty is $170 in north america.

The 6970M is better compared to a desktop 6850 (~$180) which it is based off but with lower clocks and consequently slightly lower performance. You can use the iMac as a monitor, but only with a device which supports Thunderbolt such as the MacBook Pro. You forget to mention that the fans run incredibly quiet when idle and under load :p
Debating about graphics cards is a minefield that I'd rather not get into. I chose $200 for the HD 6970M as a fair round price based on minimal performance estimations with about 30% extra to compensate for that fact that it's in a mobile form factor and is relatively energy efficient.

To actually buy one of these as a end-user is likely very expensive as they are not-for-retail... which isn't fair in terms of value estimating.

Why is "maintenance" a con? You don't really need to do any, ever.
Maintenance is a con because it's difficult to conduct. Regardless of how perfect you may think Apple is, hardware failures do occur. If my hard drive fails on my desktop, I just need to order a replacement and send in the faulty for RMA, with no downtime or data loss thanks to RAID1.

Additionally; buying a $2400 system with a storage bottleneck is a bit silly and upgrading the hard drive is almost a requirement.

Optimal Hard Drive Upgrades for iMac
  • 128GB SSD w/ typical HD for backup/media ~ $350 [very fast, low-risk, medium effort]
  • 2 450GB raptors in RAID1 ~ $500 [decent speed, no risk, no effort]
  • 2 128GB SSD's in RAID w/ external drive for media ~ $600 [very fast, no risk, little effort]

And thanks to Apple price-gouging on the SSD's; you gotta pay for it to be serviced 'professionally' if you don't trust yourself with suction cups and glass... which can be an ordeal either way.

Also, how is it proprietary?
Come on.

Considering the lack of hostility/reaction I think I've done a good job with this post. Here's the kicker; I personally don't even want an iMac and would rather build my own ugly obnoxious PC. :D
 

sqrage

Mega Super Ultra Cool Member
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No. It's exactly the same as running Windows natively on a PC.

Actually, it isn't a boot manager either. Boot Camp Assistant (which is for OS X) is a partition manage as you said, and the Boot Camp software that installs in the Control Panel on Windows is as you said just for some basic settings. The drivers are just drivers for the hardware in the Mac, etc., which are on the installation disc for your specific Mac model. Confusingly enough, they're all sort of referred to as just "Boot Camp".

What's the point of bootcamp then? Can't you just install it the same way you would on a PC and get the drivers online?
 

Icyculyr

I'm a Mac
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Debating about graphics cards is a minefield that I'd rather not get into. I chose $200 for the HD 6970M as a fair round price based on minimal performance estimations with about 30% extra to compensate for that fact that it's in a mobile form factor and is relatively energy efficient.

To actually buy one of these as a end-user is likely very expensive as they are not-for-retail... which isn't fair in terms of value estimating.
Yeah, I know. Was just pointing out that to buy it retail it's incredibly expensive, was interesting that's all.
Maintenance is a con because it's difficult to conduct. Regardless of how perfect you may think Apple is, hardware failures do occur. If my hard drive fails on my desktop, I just need to order a replacement and send in the faulty for RMA, with no downtime or data loss thanks to RAID1.

Additionally; buying a $2400 system with a storage bottleneck is a bit silly and upgrading the hard drive is almost a requirement.
Mmm, yeah but that's more a lack of the ability to perform maintenance, rather than having to do it regularly which is kind of implied (and what I was thinking).
Come on.

Considering the lack of hostility/reaction I think I've done a good job with this post. Here's the kicker; I personally don't even want an iMac and would rather build my own ugly obnoxious PC. :D
Na, I'm serious. How is an iMac any more proprietary than any other all-in-one or even a desktop PC?
What's the point of bootcamp then? Can't you just install it the same way you would on a PC and get the drivers online?
Well, there's no reason not to do it as it makes everything easy. However, you can't (not to my knowledge)). You need Boot Camp Assistant to create the partition for you; it's not as simple to partition the drive with a HSF+ partition (for OS X) and an NTFS partition (for Windows) as both require different drive mappings/layouts. So BCA actually changes a part of the mapping/layout where the Windows partition will be created.

And, as of recently, when you insert the Windows DVD on the Mac side it asks you if you have the drivers DVD or if you want to get them online. So, that may be possible now, but previously not so.
 

celerisk

When Zerg floweth, life is good
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> You need Boot Camp Assistant to create the partition for you

Only if you want to keep OS X around.
If you don't need or want that, Windows can simply take over the entire drive.


> ... and get the drivers online

Easier said than done.
There's things like iSigh camera or the newer FailTime camera.
Or something detected as "generic high definition audio device"... good luck getting the details on that one :p

Or even just the keyboard, if you want eject and the volume controls to actually work without some unsupported third-party key remapper.

Standard hardware like the graphics card is no problem.

Still, first time around, it's just "Real Simple(TM)" to have one package that gets it all done.
After that, the normal Windows update takes care of the rest.
(Along with the Crapple Updater that may try to sneak a Safari installation in... but that's a different story :D)
 
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