UK News 'Jedi' religion most popular alternative faith

[camelCase]

I believe in being nice to others..
Sometimes..

 

[Varine]

I'm sure there will be plenty of time for chuckles once we've made it to Greenland.

I took you for someone without a belief in a higher power. Mormonism just never made much sense to me; any religion that requires its members to 'donate' their money seems more like a well-planned scam. Especially when it's founder was convicted and fined for convincing others of his seer-stone capabilities at their expense. I don't see how it's much more valid than Scientology, except that people should certainly know better by this day and age to believe something written by a science-fiction writer as fact.

I didn't say I was a GOOD Mormon, and I don't typically classify myself as one, however I do find it extremely annoying when people try to bash on it and have no idea what they're talking about.

Almost every religion collects tithings, and the church is usually pretty open about where the money goes. The church leaders are also very modest, especially in comparison to, say, Catholic leaders.
I don't know what seer stone thing you're talking about, so if you would like to add that I will tell you whatever it is I know about it, though Joseph Smith was incarcerated for a brief period of time (when, I might add, the country founded on freedom of religion kicked Mormons out). But based on the last bit my guess would be that you're very unfamiliar with the religion and I do remain fairly defensive about it (if I were to choose a religion, it would be the LDS church), and would appreciate it if you didn't attempt to criticize it because of that unless you're going to come up with valid arguments that actually happened. Most of the time when I deal with this shit, people do not have a fucking clue, and go off about things that are absolutely not involved in the religious practices at all and it pisses me off.

I disagree. I do not believe in morals, or any rules on how to live.

​

I've figured that out before now, and already have an extremely low opinion of you, so you continue living your life in a sad and short existence as you see fit, while better people spend their lives committed to making the world a better place for everyone else to live in.

 

[Fatmankev]

I had a real close friend in high school (unfortunately, we don't see each other much these days, states away and family and what not) who had moved here from Utah. He'd grown up as a member of the LDS Church, but his father left because that faith wasn't hitting home for him. Most of my understanding of the religion comes from him, which I'm sure was largely biased and exaggerated at times because it was a lifestyle he cared little for. Admittedly, much of my other knowledge comes from... well, South Park, which just made a big joke of the thing. I can't point out a reason why Joseph Smith's crazy story would be any more crazy than that of Jesus, so I'll concede on the point of its origins seeming, to me, quite ridiculous.

My friend assured me that the tithe was 10% of total income and was required if you attended the church, but if the money isn't all being squandered away by some greedy monkey and is actually given back to the people, then I can't say too terribly much about it. The seer-stone bit I spoke of was referred to in a document that, after researching a bit further, is apparently unproven to be totally authentic (as in, there's a possibility that the document was altered prior to its release to the public. It seems like there are two completely different suggestions as to his reason for appearing in court during his 1826 trial: the first of which refers to him using a seer stone to convince the sons of a "Mr. Stowell" that there was treasure to be had should they dig in a certain place, with no success on their part. The other is that it was for a mere disorderly conduct charge. Both agree that the imposed fine was only $2.86 (however much that was back then), which seems like it'd fit well with a disorderly conduct charge, so maybe that was bullshit... I only know what I've read and heard, so feel free to enlighten me on the subject.

Like I said, only having one friend that was Mormon, and not a practicing one but rather one that looked back on those days with scorn, certainly affected my judgement on the whole, and my bad if I offended ya. It's not like I ever practiced the religion like I did with Christianity, so I'll stick with bashing that, instead. And Scientology. 'Cuz I don't care what anyone says or which actors I may or may not like might be a part of it, that IS a scam. A crazy one that shouldn't work but does, only because they take advantage of people at their weakest.

Look at that. All that time to respond to this and say mostly nothing and I couldn't even give you a real response to your PM. That's how I am, I guess.

 

[Nyph]

I've figured that out before now, and already have an extremely low opinion of you, so you continue living your life in a sad and short existence as you see fit, while better people spend their lives committed to making the world a better place for everyone else to live in.

How enlightened your world must be. We are just animals, and almost always morals correspond to intraspecies instincts. e.g. we don't kill eachother because it goes against instinct. Similar thing with empathy and helping other people out. How would you define sad anyhow, as for the most part I am completely happy and content with how my life is going.

 

[Fatmankev]

How enlightened your world must be. We are just animals, and almost always morals correspond to intraspecies instincts. e.g. we don't kill eachother because it goes against instinct. Similar thing with empathy and helping other people out.

If it's instinctual, then why go against it? Why not define those as rules to live by? What would be the benefit not to, beyond a sense of self-preservation (worrying only about yourself and disregarding others, having only your own problems to contend with without anyone elses' burdens to share)? I feel like you may not have thought this statement through, when it comes down to it.

And I'm glad you're happy. The more people, the better.

 

[Varine]

The two aren't similar in that respect; Joseph Smith is way the fuck below Jesus. He was just a prophet; everyone is perfectly fine with there having been prophets in B.C., I fail to see why one recently is much different.

Tithing is not required. Anyone is welcome to come to church, even excommunicated people are allowed to come back. Tithing is private, it's not done during Sacrament, and the only people with access to it are in the treasury. Which I think in some places is actually outsourced outside the church, but I'm not sure. It's based on a verse in the Bible that says 10% of your profit should go to the church to help those in need.
The only people paid are the actual church leaders (like the Prophet and the upper quorums, and maybe some at regional levels. I'm pretty sure all the local levels are volunteers). And they're all pretty modest. Some of them might have houses that are five or six bedrooms, but they also might have six, seven, eight children. Mormons tend to have a lot of kids. And then they really only pay for living expenses, which aren't that crazy. I don't even think their kids get college tuition or anything, but then again they probably will go to BYU with a full scholarship without much difficulty.
The church makes significant contributions to humanitarian efforts world wide.
http://ldscharities.org/where-we-are?lang=eng
They make almost no effort to dissuade people from studying things like physics and biochemistry, they encourage people to because there isn't this weird idea that somehow the complexity of our DNA disproves God. I personally think it worked very well for the most part, and I can understand why, if there is a God, he made the world in such a way.
Then BYU itself is an incredibly good school and tuition is extremely cheap because it's subsidized with tithes. For LDS students it's like 5 grand a year, if you're not I think it's like 10 grand.

Oh. He was arrested for pretending to find lost treasure. Then he was arrested in Carthage where he was killed in the jail.

And the DIFFERENCE between you and an animal is that you have the capacity to make decisions not driven by instinct. We kill each other all the time, so do other animals. The difference is, we don't do it because the other is threat, we do it because we want to. And what keeps us from murdering each other isn't that it's against what animals do, it's not, it's because your entire life you've been raised that if you kill someone you go to jail for the rest of your life and you don't want that. There are huge differences between humans and other animals.

 

[Nyph]

If it's instinctual, then why go against it? Why not define those as rules to live by?

Because you automatically live by instinct. I am not advocating going against it, as you will fail nearly always.

What would be the benefit not to, beyond a sense of self-preservation (worrying only about yourself and disregarding others, having only your own problems to contend with without anyone elses' burdens to share)?

Natural selection selects species, not merely individuals.

I feel like you may not have thought this statement through, when it comes down to it.

I have fully thought this through, it is part of my philosophy.

 

[Varine]

You should consider a serious revision before publishing it.

 

[Nyph]

Pretty hostile today Varine.

 

[Fatmankev]

Like I said, I'm sure he exaggerated some things... led me to believe that all Mormons were required to pay tithe, which quite apparently isn't true and was one of my least favorite aspects of it; that, as he explained it, sounded like a scam.

Knowledge gets confusing. The most common way I learn new things is by word of mouth. I'm a very trusting person, so as long as I have no reason to argue the point and there's some sort of logical reasoning behind it, I'll assume it's fact. You make valid points that I have no reason to argue against, so I'll consider it to be the truth regardless of whether it's actually true or not; after all, as far as I can reason, it is. But that's where a lot of my misinformation is derived from, too. I suppose I could always research the subject, but the vast majority of stuff I 'learn' really doesn't interest me that much, so I just take it at face-value.

So no offense meant to anyone... if my words don't ring true then let me know. If you can explain why I'm wrong, I'm always willing to change my opinion.

 

[Fatmankev]

The two aren't similar in that respect; Joseph Smith is way the fuck below Jesus. He was just a prophet; everyone is perfectly fine with there having been prophets in B.C., I fail to see why one recently is much different.

Forgot about this part. Fewer and fewer people believe in those with prophetic powers from some otherworldly source. As the overall understanding of our world and how it works became clearer, so went peoples' willingness to believe these sorts of happenstance. Now, there are medical conditions associated with hearing voices that are much better understood than they were even well into the 20th century, let alone 200 or 2,000 years ago. Jesus was a prophet in the same way but took it further, claiming to be the son of God or the embodiment of God or whatever it is exactly. I can't say he's not; I have no proof to the contrary. But I have no proof of that being the case, either, and the latter seems like a far more likely scenario.

Also, I keep forgetting that Mormonism is still a denomination of Christianity. So sorry if that's pissin' ya off, too. They're just always called Mormons instead of Christians, but that's not a good excuse since it's the same way with Catholics and I just think of them as Christians with benefits. Gay, pedophile benefits.

Weird how the brain analyzes and interprets information. Not everyone thinks in the same way, right? Are there identifiable thinking patterns for different kinds of people that certain groups might share? Is that defined by cultural differences or through your genetic make-up?

 

[FireCat]

And the DIFFERENCE between you and an animal is that you have the capacity to make decisions not driven by instinct. We kill each other all the time, so do other animals. The difference is, we don't do it because the other is threat, we do it because we want to.

QFT

But it wasn't so easy, though! @thewrongvine

 

[iPeez]

I look at myself in the mirror each day and say "animal".

 

[Varine]

So no offense meant to anyone... if my words don't ring true then let me know. If you can explain why I'm wrong, I'm always willing to change my opinion.

Don't worry about it; as I said, I retain some level of defense regarding the religion, largely because it seems to be mostly misunderstood and for reason that aren't apparent to me extremely disliked, and usually for reasons that aren't even real. And I try to defend religion at most points I can, though I happen to be far more familiar with the LDS church than most others, and typically that's the one that needs to be defended anyway. There is nothing wrong with any person that wants to believe in some kind of God or other form of it, and I find it really annoying when people bash it because they disagree with the concept. I have yet to find an atheist who does that who can explain to me one of the alternatives to creationism in a remotely adequate way (for the record, I don't think saying the Big Bang or evolution qualifies as an explanation), and in consideration that they cannot, I don't think they should have any right to tell another person that their religious beliefs are untrue because they can't answer the same questions.

What really pissed me off was that group that was giving out porn in exchange for Bibles, rationalizing that missionaries go to your door so there was nothing wrong with it. Last time I checked, the missionaries are trying to help you better yourself and are volunteering (usually paying for it themselves) and happen to believe that their church can do that. Giving out porn in exchange for Bibles is just a direct and deliberate attack against what most religions view as important for the purpose of desecration. And I don't really like porn.

 

[The Helper]

Jedi!