Welcome !

[Bloodcount]

Welcome to the Strategy Room, this is where all the balance/build/replay/strategy discussions go !




Edit: First ;DD

 

[celerisk]

- might want to fix the title
- the original "discussion" didn't seem all that full to require a separate place
- balance "discussions" usually aren't discussing anything

 

[Bloodcount]

- might want to fix the title

I don't have that kind of power.

- the original "discussion" didn't seem all that full to require a separate place

It is clear that we need more strategy discussions, what ARE you waiting for : P : )

- balance "discussions" usually aren't discussing anything

I agree, balance discussions are usually "FUCK THIS FUCKING SHIT CHRONOBOOST IS OP, I HATE YOU BLIZZ GO BLOW YOURSELFS"
They are fun to read, refreshing to write (since I QQ sometimes) But... I think that balance discussions are possible...

For instance, let's say I think the zealot is too slow to do anything, with the proper examples I will be convinsed that it is a support unit for the stalker and sentry ^_^



Bottom line: I agree with the second point, I will try to start ~2-3 discussions per week, but hopefully I won't be alone : )

 

[celerisk]

> I think the Zealot is too slow

HA! Rubbish.
Play Zerg, Hydralisks more specifically. THEN talk about slow, even ON Creep.


Though that's not exactly strategy, more like a finer tactics point

 

[Bloodcount]

to be honest I think that the roaches in SCII are taking the rolle of the hydra in SC, nowadays I think that the hydra is a good unit when doom dropping.


Tlo used roach/hydra+overlord drops, to make them mobile. Worked like a charm against a terran mech army.

 

[celerisk]

Well, if you are TLO, a lot of things are rather easy, simple even.
If you are me, you simply complain, the easy way


What can I say, I like Hydralisks.
I even still have the original Hydralisk action figure that was sold back in the days (2003?).

 

[Accname]

@Zealots are slow:
Thats why they got the charge upgrade?
What should it be good for if not to make them less slow?
If they were not slow in the first place the charge upgrade wouldnt be needed at all. (And its looking way too cool in my opinion to be removed)

But i woud like to compare the pure caster units of all races, terran raven, zerg infestor and protoss high templar.
its hard to tell which of these is better, but its easy to see which of these is used more often.
you can hardly see any ravens in a pro game (exept for the detection ability) but you see high templars very often and you see infestors in every game. (given the game lasts long enough of course)
I think this alone is indicating something.
Does somebody think the raven needs a buff?

 

[Bloodcount]

>If you are me, you simply complain, the easy way
I am pointing out ways to go arround their weak movement speed, I wouldn't call that a complain

>I even still have the original Hydralisk action figure that was sold back in the days (2003?).

Cool


The zealots are balanced IMO I was just giving this as an example for QQ-ing over something : D

When it comes to the raven I think that it's turret is somewhat balanced, the PDF in some scenarios (the 1-1-1 non harass based all ins) is a bit too good, but the (hunter) seeker missile is just sad. It is the spell in the game which requires the most micro of all, it can be evaded if the opponent microes, it is expensive, slow to research and even after the upgrade you must wait some time before you can use it... If there is to be a buff about the raven I think that it should be regarding this ability- either a complete rework or a huge buff

 

[Accname]

If you compare the turrets and the infested terrans the turrets are okay but not great.
The turret needs the doubled amount of energy to be cast, its immobile and it takes as much space as a supply depot.
But on the other hand, the infested terrans cannot be called "fast" in any way either, they stay for a shorter period of time and i believe they are weaker as well. Though, its easier to mass inf.T's then turrets, not just because of the energy but because of the size as well.

The point defense drone is a skill i would really say is a coold idea, but unfotunately, its useless in many situations.
Just think, how many units got a missle which can be sniped out by the drone?
I will make a list:
Banshee
Viking
Battlecruiser
Marauder
Mutalisk
Corrupter
Broodlord (? i am not sure ? )
Stalker
Phoenix
Carrier (? I am not sure ? )

Might be, that i missed one or two but still, they arent many.
Especially in TvT the point defense drone is useless, and you have to keep in mind, the drone costs 100 Energy and can only kill few missles if too many enemies are attacking at once.
Again, its okay, but not great.

And the seeker missle is a joke. It needs to be researched first. Then it needs 125 of 200 energy to be cast. The only units in the game which can not run away are unupgraded overlords, maybe carriers or battlecruisers but these will survive the missle no doubt.
The damage it deals is not monumental, 2 fungal growths or 2 psi storms which cost only little more then 1 missle will definitely deal more damage. And they will hit their targets for sure (if the player isnt a newbie).
You can see bronze players avoid the missle if you ever see it being used in the game.
I think the missle really is a fail, the idea, again, is really really cool. But useless nontheless.

The detection of the raven is indeed always nice to have, but the raven costs so much for it.
The observer of the protoss costs only little resources and it is permanently invisible, the overseer isnt cheap either but it will also give you food and got some nice abilities to scout the enemy or shut down his construction facilities. You cannot do this much with a single raven.

And the infestor can burrow and move while being burrowed, thats way better then detection in my opinion.

 

[Bloodcount]

Although your points are valid the "issue" with the PDF is that it basically denies the anti air. There are sets of marine/raven/banshee of tank all ins where the pdf is the most vital component.


The skill that needs buffing in my opinion is the seeker missile, as stated above- hard to tech to, hard to cast, too chaotic when casted, can hurt you more than it can help needs time even after the raven energy upgrade.

 

[Accname]

i think they could make the raven as a unit cost less resources.
I mean, the raven isnt as useful as the templar or the infestor.
Templars can feedback right after they spawn and they need only 25 energy for psi-storm.
Infestors, with upgrade, can fungal growth right after they spawn or throw 3 infested terrans, they can burrow and move, and with 25 additional energy they can neural parasite which is really really powerful. especially in ZvT it will turn the tight quite drastically.
The raven can only place a single turret after being build. even with the upgrade.
The turrets are okay, but they arent really powerful. For a seeker missle (which will probably miss against a pro) they need another 50 energy.

I think the seeker missle needs to be buffed or the raven needs to cost less then the protoss, zerg, counterparts.
In fact, the raven is currently the most costly unit of them with 100 / 200, infestors are 100 / 150 and templars are only 50 / 150. thats incredible. (information taken from the sc2 wiki)