American use of nuclear weapons against Japan

[Uberplayer]

But if they hadn't dropped the bombs, but used their men to fight... a lot women and children would've survived.

I'd love it (no I wouldn't love it, but it'd be fair) so much if Japan had such weapons and had blown up few cities from America too. You'd think differently then Player 11.

 

[Sevion]

Player 11, if the Japanese had bombed us, your post would say the exact opposite.

 

[Ninva]

But if they hadn't dropped the bombs, but used their men to fight... a lot women and children would've survived.

I'd love it (no I wouldn't love it, but it'd be fair) so much if Japan had such weapons and had blown up few cities from America too. You'd think differently then Player 11.

The thing is, it was war. There wasn't a good way of ending it or a bad way. We did what we thought was best, and personally I think the bombing was a very effective way of dealing with the Japanese. We gave them a warning, but they didn't surrender. So, boom goes a city. Another warning, no surrender, boom another city.

It's the Japanese government's fault. Not America's.

 

[Uberplayer]

> It's the Japanese government's fault. Not America's.
You can't say so. Japanese didn't bomb themselves. Really. If you hit me, and I stab you. Guess whos fault the stabbing was?

 

[TFlan]

You guys are still being ignorant.

-rep me all you want, still won't change the fact that you don't know what your debating on.

Japanese were going to fight to the last man, which meant that Americans either had to use the nuclear bomb to try and save American lives, or send in American troops and let both sides suffer huge losses.

^ Finally someone who actually read my post.

But if they hadn't dropped the bombs, but used their men to fight... a lot women and children would've survived.

Japan was arming it's women and children for the invasion of Japan from America, women and children WERE going to die no matter what, it is a known fact of war. It is called collateral damage.

Study some conflicts/wars, look at the conflict in Georgia/Russia right now, you will see DEAD women and children in the bombing of cities.

Player 11, if the Japanese had bombed us, your post would say the exact opposite.

If the situation was flipped, America losing 100,000 people and Japan losing 50,000 for an invasion of an island comparitive to Okinawa of Japan... lets say Hawaii... No my post would be the EXACT same. Kill 200,000 to save 500,000. That is logical, that is what happened, THAT is what you guys refuse to accept.

The thing is, it was war. There wasn't a good way of ending it or a bad way. We did what we thought was best, and personally I think the bombing was a very effective way of dealing with the Japanese. We gave them a warning, but they didn't surrender. So, boom goes a city. Another warning, no surrender, boom another city.

It's the Japanese government's fault. Not America's.

Truth, the Japanese received fair warning of the bombing, but ignored it. If they took the threat seriously thousands of lives could of been saved. But surrender/retreat was against Japan's moral at that time.

You can't say so. Japanese didn't bomb themselves. Really. If you hit me, and I stab you. Guess whos fault the stabbing was?

That has no relavence to Pacific WW2.

Japan started their conquest of Southeast Asia, America stop trading with Japan. Japan heavily relied on America for war resources. Japan struck back at Hawaii. America entered WW2.

I can go farther back to the event leading up to Japan's campaign in Asia, all things have a reason, if you read, learn, and pay attention you'll understand this.

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Again, -rep me all you want, but that still doesn't change the fact that the atomic bomb saved lives in the long road.


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@Seb! : Radiation was discovered in 1898 by Marie Currie. They knew the extent of what it could do by 1945, and if they didn't; Why would they bother wear protective suits against it? They knew the atomic bomb gave off radiation.

They knew Uranium was radioactive, if you spend 30 seconds online you'll find Little Boy was comprised of Uranium.

They knew Plutonium (which comes from Uranium) was radioactive, again... you'll find that was in Fat Man.

Those 'scholars' you talk of, must of been living in a cave.

 

[Miz]

@Seb! : Radiation was discovered in 1898 by Marie Currie. They knew the extent of what it could do by 1945, and if they didn't; Why would they bother wear protective suits against it? They knew the atomic bomb gave off radiation.

They knew Uranium was radioactive, if you spend 30 seconds online you'll find Little Boy was comprised of Uranium.

They knew Plutonium (which comes from Uranium) was radioactive, again... you'll find that was in Fat Man.

Those 'scholars' you talk of, must of been living in a cave.

They knew of radiation but they didn't know the full extreme effect or the exact side effects of what would happen...

 

[Seb!]

They knew of radiation but they didn't know the full extreme effect or the exact side effects of what would happen...

Duh.. Or they wouldn't have deployed soldiers to occupy Japan into the after effects of the bombs without protection

And anyway, back on subject, it really depends which historical accounts you read: the World Wars weren't exactly uniform and bias-free in American and Japanese accounts.

 

[TFlan]

They knew of radiation but they didn't know the full extreme effect or the exact side effects of what would happen...

True, but they had an idea and proof backing it, many people died prior to the bombing from radiation poisoning.

They didn't know the long term biological effects, they knew the acute effects of burns and bone necrosis which both lead to death (burning only if severe enough).

They knew the radiation from the atomic bombs would kill.

Go look up Trinity.

 

[New_U.S.]

The civilian population getting caught in the war..... noones seen what it was like in Europe? This wasn't the first time civilians were caught in this. Its just changing the weapon.

My question is why are we looking at 'Morals' in war. You guys are telling me, that if you were President, you would rather waste the lives of hundreds of thousands of your soldiers instead of using a weapon that would save American lives. Just imagin getting on TV and telling your country that you will be sending there sons to their deaths because you think its immoral to kill enemy civilians.

 

[TFlan]

I don't think morals were ever talked about.

But I must agree with you, another reason that dropping the atomic bomb was necessary.

And another good point, if you are complaining about the "innocent" women and children, look at Europe. The atrocities that happened there were 10x horrific and catastrophic. The incineration attempts on London for example, and everyone's personal favorite "What happened during WW2?" answer: the Holocaust.

 

[Sevion]

The civilian population getting caught in the war..... noones seen what it was like in Europe? This wasn't the first time civilians were caught in this. Its just changing the weapon.

My question is why are we looking at 'Morals' in war. You guys are telling me, that if you were President, you would rather waste the lives of hundreds of thousands of your soldiers instead of using a weapon that would save American lives. Just imagin getting on TV and telling your country that you will be sending there sons to their deaths because you think its immoral to kill enemy civilians.

If I were President, I'd try to save as many lives as possible. Regardless if they're American or not. Why discriminate?

 

[Miz]

If I were President, I'd try to save as many lives as possible. Regardless if they're American or not. Why discriminate?

Because its War, 1) Its not suppose to be fair, and 2) there trying to destroy you!

 

[Sevion]

Because its War, 1) Its not suppose to be fair, and 2) there trying to destroy you!

War might be War, but you still shouldn't discriminate. I know it's not supposed to be fair, but might as well make it as fair as possible with less life loss. If they try to destroy me, I'll lock 'em up and smack 'em with a stick >=O

 

[Ninva]

If they try to destroy me, I'll lock 'em up and smack 'em with a stick >=O

I'd rather be dead.

 

[TFlan]

War fair....

Have you ever heard the expression "Alls fair in love and war"?

The only reason human rights trials take place after wars are over are because the losing side has been captured and is force to do what the winning side says.

If Hitler was smart and didn't engage with Russia and kept his pace with Britain do you think the Nazi's would just decide to go on trial for Human Rights violations? No.

Everything, sadly, is fair in the eyes of the side doing what is being questioned.

 

[tom_mai78101]

I agree with you.

 

[Uberplayer]

This wasn't the first time Americans misuse their powers.. using black people as slaves.

You might be correct Player 11, but there are people thinking completely differently than you do, and wtf, they're correct too !

Nothing can change my mind in this case. It's only my opinion...

 

[TFlan]

Uberplayer using black people as slaves isn't just the Americans. The Europeans did too. In fact if you look into any countries history you will see that they used slaves in some manor or form, from force labor by POW's to enslaving a "lesser race", all countries have a dark side to their history. Sadly our is using the Atomic Bomb on Japan, and enslaving African Americans.

If you want to talk about America misusing their power; Yes we have misused our global power on many countries, however hopefully with Still-President George W Bush stepping out of office, along with his lackie Dick Cheney, and McCain NOT winning the election soon to be.

America may have a chance to improve its global relations and maybe solve its homeland problems before foreign ones.

Again, all governments have misused their power in one way or form, all people in power have misused their power in one way or form.

We are only human and so are our leaders, our sole instinct is to survive and reproduce. Humans would do anything to stay in power, just look at today's politics and how campaigns are being advertised.

Your arguement is weak by just saying "using black people as slaves". In reality everyone has used someone as a slave.

 

[Uberplayer]

It was only a one example. And I never said they we're the only ones. It was just the first thing that came to my mind.

 

[TFlan]

I have a feeling this debate is over... It's starting to get off topic.

Was fun while it lasted

Who won?