Can you find a better deal than this iMac?

[Varine]

Aside from the fact that they cost a million f*cking dollars.

Yes, but they still kick ass.

 

[Icyculyr]

Mac's use the same hardware, just a different OS.

Mac's don't have special hardware, but they do have EFI instead of BIOS.

That comp is still a ripoff, spending over 2,000 and only getting a single 4870?lolwtf? That card wont even run anything properly at those resolutions.

That's hardly a rip off, you only get a 4850 1GB with the HP model. Unfortunately that's the only GPU it uses for the moment, it might change later, but I would guess not.
I'd contest that it can't play anything at those resolutions, I think it could play Crysis on lowest settings just fine, or maybe higher.

I'd argue that the Mac Pro case is the best, it looks nice imo and is incredibly easy to open and add or remove components.
If you looked at a similar "All In One" system, they can't compare to the iMac now. Desktop systems are able to have better graphics card because they have much more space (heat).

If you build a computer properly it'll be far cheaper than anything you can buy from a store, so I don't compare those things since I can't build a Mac.

 

[ReVolver]

If you build a computer properly it'll be far cheaper than anything you can buy from a store, so I don't compare those things since I can't build a Mac.

That's how they get you, you have to buy a new one or just keep the old one. The one thing that I don't like about Mac (The OS) is that they don't have a descent server edition. Unix and Windows have server editions that work really good. Kind of sad to think that an OS based on Unix can't run descent servers.

 

[Icyculyr]

And why do you say that, what's wrong with SL Server - have you actually tried it?
It is sad, the 4850 is limiting, however it's possible that 4850 is the mobile version also, not as good as the desktop version, and Apple also may have under clocked it as well to reduce thermal output.
The GPU is the only thing that really limits it, but it's not designed to be a gaming machine, although I wish it was, I'd buy one for a future comp if I didn't need my MP.

But what can they do, they might support the 5850 or 5870 when it comes out if they make a mobile version of it. It's either too big, too hot, or there just aren't cards that can be used to fit in with what Apple need/want.
Also I believe that 27" Display is quite expensive, like $1000, not the same as the $300 27" screens I put out there.

 

[Varine]

Yeah I still don't get why you always want to debate why Mac is the best every time you get a chance.

 

[Icyculyr]

Yeah I still don't get why you always want to debate why Mac is the best every time you get a chance.

I'm not, I'm trying to find if the iMac is as good as value as a PC from a PC user's perspective.
Technically I'm quite happy actually, they are the most competitive so far, if you look at other all in one systems (although I've only looked at one), I don't think they can compare.

Unfortunately like sqrage said the GPU is sucky, in fact it's possible it's even worse than he said.
They needed the GTX 285 1GB in it, that would be able to handle some stuff.

Hopefully the iMac will be updated to include a better graphics card (unlikely I think), or you might (unlikely imo) be able to swap it out for a better replacement released by Apple.
The Mac Pro needs a better one too, my GTX 285 1GB for Mac only gets about 15-22 FPS in Crysis on Max settings (1920x1200), I really want 30-40 with a 30" 2560x1600 resolution display.

 

[Varine]

From my perspective, no because I hate the OS which is the only reason I would ever bother buying a Mac because that's the difference. And even then I would just build one and then install the OS that I wanted anyway because it's better.

 

[Tru_Power22]

From my perspective, no because I hate the OS which is the only reason I would ever bother buying a Mac because that's the difference. And even then I would just build one and then install the OS that I wanted anyway because it's better.

You don't even need to buy a mac. You can hack leopard onto a PC if you know what you are doing.

http://www.ihackintosh.com/2009/08/how-to-install-snow-leopard-10a432-on-pc-hackintosh/

Nom on that.

Oh, you can't build Macs, if you could apple would make like no money (on their computers anyways).

I'm not, I'm trying to find if the iMac is as good as value as a PC from a PC user's perspective.

If they use PC, their using it for a reason. You really won't find a PC user saying "Oh I wish I bought a Mac, I really felt like spending 500 extra dollars for a worse computer.

Mac user: Oh, it's totally worth the extra money to buy a mac.
PC user: Why?
Mac user: The hardware is better.
PC user: It's the same, if not worse because it's harder to get.
Mac user: Well Macs don't get viruses.
PC user: Neither does linux.
Mac user: The OS is better.
PC user: Then why do you need to install windows?
Mac user: Because Macs can't run certain programs. Or games for that matter.
PC user: And that's better than windows how?
Mac user: Windows Doesn't have iLife
PC user: Yeah, PC's have something called freeware.
Mac user: Well it looks nicer.
PC user: You can skin linux to whatever you want. You can even hack up windows to do that.
Mac user: It's faster.
PC user: Not as fast as a small command line version of linux.
Mac user: It's just better. If you don't get it your just ignorant.

 

[Icyculyr]

From my perspective, no because I hate the OS which is the only reason I would ever bother buying a Mac because that's the difference. And even then I would just build one and then install the OS that I wanted anyway because it's better.

The main difference is the OS, and the fact all your computer's parts are precisely chosen by Apple to make sure there are no issues.
You don't need the latter if you know what you're doing, but the majority of PC users don't.

IMO OSX is simpler, and better layed out, and has more features, when I use windows 7 it feels like a mess to me.
You may feel the opposite, in that case I recommend you stick with what you got

You don't even need to buy a mac. You can hack leopard onto a PC if you know what you are doing.

Yep, you can make a hackintosh, with Leopard and if not already, probably Snow Leopard at some point. If it's not obvious, this is illegal.

If they use PC, their using it for a reason. You really won't find a PC user saying "Oh I wish I bought a Mac, I really felt like spending 500 extra dollars for a worse computer.

I disagree, the majority of PC users don't know anything about computers, they are also the majority that has problems with crashing, viruses etc...
if all PC users were like yourself and I and anyone else technologically minded, then I'd bet there would be much fewer problems.

Mac user: Oh, it's totally worth the extra money to buy a mac.
PC user: Why?
Mac user: The hardware is better.
PC user: It's the same, if not worse because it's harder to get.
Mac user: Well Macs don't get viruses.
PC user: Neither does linux.
Mac user: The OS is better.
PC user: Then why do you need to install windows?
Mac user: Because Macs can't run certain programs. Or games for that matter.
PC user: And that's better than windows how?
Mac user: Windows Doesn't have iLife
PC user: Yeah, PC's have something called freeware.
Mac user: Well it looks nicer.
PC user: You can skin linux to whatever you want. You can even hack up windows to do that.
Mac user: It's faster.
PC user: Not as fast as a small command line version of linux.
Mac user: It's just better. If you don't get it your just ignorant.

Lolz, that's an Un-educated Mac user vs an educated PC user.
imo that iMac is still better value than anything anyone can get from a store, + you get OSX.

EDIT: I've changed my mind (HAHA), I think the 4850 is quite a competent GPU, it may not be able to power Crysis on max settings on that res (with more than 5 FPS) but it should be able to do fine on low settings (just a guess),
From what I've seen & read Apple are fair ahead with the iMac compared to other All In Ones, but I guess the GPU lacks a bit compared to the GPU's you can get in the latest desktop.

 

[Varine]

Oh, you can't build Macs, if you could apple would make like no money (on their computers anyways).

You can't build them like a PC, they don't use form factors, but all of the hardware now isn't proprietary, most everything is bought from Intel or Nvidia or something. I thought it was all proprietary a while ago and got in a big debate about it then got pissed and had to go read about it to be sure I was right and I wasn't.... not a good day for Varine's ego. So if you build a PC and boot their OS, you got yourself the same thing Apple is selling you. And they would make money because it's hard to get their OS anywhere else, and it's just like Dell or Gateway or somewhere, people will buy from them anyway because they don't want to build it and it comes with the operating system.

 

[Icyculyr]

You can't build them like a PC, they don't use form factors

I'd bet thats because they don't want you to build them

I think I've asked this before, but what are form factors? I think you can fit any graphics card into the Mac Pro, and you can flash PC graphic cards to run on OSX, I think the GTX 295 2GB has been flashed for Mac.

I think you can also swap out the processor on the quad Mac Pro if you really know what you're doing...
I don't think you can replace the Motherboard or anything else like that if that's what you mean, having a standard measurement for components so that anything can fit in there.

They also use EFI (made by Intel) rather than BIOS, what does that actually mean?
What component in the computer has BIOS/EFI on it? I know how to boot into BIOS and I think I could probably boot into EFI too (on Windows/OSX), but what is it, is it on the motherboard??

 

[Varine]

I'd bet thats because they don't want you to build them

No, they said it's because that way 'their designers aren't limited in what they can make' or something. Other than that they just use the same shit every other computer building company uses.

I think I've asked this before, but what are form factors? I think you can fit any graphics card into the Mac Pro, and you can flash PC graphic cards to run on OSX, I think the GTX 295 2GB has been flashed for Mac.

Yeah but you're probably not going to be able to take that motherboard and put into a different case. It's just a system that's been developed that most PC's adhere to so that you can buy parts without worrying about them all fitting. Standard form factor right now is ATX, and so the cases are all built for an ATX motherboard so that the add-in slots all line up, otherwise you would end up with a case that has all of the ports where the front of the card is supposed to be at the top with the power supply at the bottom, and then you're motherboard will have all of the slots at the bottom expecting a power supply to not be there.

I think you can also swap out the processor on the quad Mac Pro if you really know what you're doing...
I don't think you can replace the Motherboard or anything else like that if that's what you mean, having a standard measurement for components so that anything can fit in there.

I don't know, I'm pretty sure they just use Intel processors so as long as you had the right pins, yeah you could.

They also use EFI (made by Intel) rather than BIOS, what does that actually mean?
What component in the computer has BIOS/EFI on it? I know how to boot into BIOS and I think I could probably boot into EFI too (on Windows/OSX), but what is it, is it on the motherboard??

Yeah, it's just a little chip on the motherboard and as you probably know it's just the boot sequence. EFI is just a more complex and user friendly version of BIOS, it does the same thing. All they do is define the firmware for the OS; BIOS just isn't very powerful, it's not that good for big servers and such. But really it doesn't do much; I would prefer BIOS because EFI doesn't really solve most of the problems that came up, and BIOS is fully open source, you can reprogram it if you're good.

If you look on the motherboard, somewhere there will be a little chip on there and probably have a sticker that says Intel or Phoenix (who makes most BIOS chips, all of mine have been Phoenix anyway) or something. Might be soldered on, not really sure. I've never heard of anyone having to replace BIOS because if it's really affecting you that much you could just rewrite it. Not sure with EFI; I think Apple basically either came to the conclusion that Mac users won't be smart enough to use BIOS, so they used EFI because it's GUI, or if they just don't want anyone modding their computers. Honestly it's probably somewhere in the middle; not to say that you're stupid, but do most of the hackers and uber computer geniuses that mod the fuck out of their systems use Macs? No... some of them do though.

 

[Icyculyr]

Yeah, I wouldn't bother hacking/modding anything, I don't need to, my OS does everything I want I think lol.

or if they just don't want anyone modding their computers

Yeah I don't think you can OC your Mac with EFI, I don't think they let you do it.

EDIT:

But I mean, Alienware cases are flat out the best anywhere, and honestly the extra couple hundred makes it worth it because you can't get them anywhere else.

They look cool, but you should look inside the Mac Pro's case, it's so bloomin easy to put in HDs, graphic cards, RAM etc.. freaks me out opening the case though but that's just me.

 

[InfectedWithDrew]

Now, as an Apple fan, I'm stoked about the new quad core i7 iMac @ 2.8GHz with a 27.5" display, it's much better value than the previous models, can it compare with a PC yet?
Funny this is two days (US time) before the Windows 7 OS release, Apple choose to unveil their new Macs

iMac @ $2,568 (US)

• 2.8GHz quad core i7 processor @ 2.8GHz w/ 8MB shared L3 cache, turbo boost up to 3.46GHz
• 1TB SATA Hard Drive
• 8GB DDR3 1066MHz RAM
• ATI Radeon 4850 512MB
• Apple Care Protection Plan (Extended 3 year warranty)
• Apple Wireless Keyboard + Magic Mouse (touch mouse)
• 27.5" 2560x1440 resolution (16:9)

I'm looking at alienware atm, seeing if I can find something significantly cheaper.

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/cto.do#a
e9280t @ 2,144.98 (1,754.98 with some rebate)

• Windows 7 Ultimate (Don't know about warranty)
• Intel Core i7 920 @ 2.66GHz w/ 1MB L2 cache + 8MB shared L3 cache
• 1TB SATA Hard Drive
• 8GB DDR3 1066MHz RAM
• ATI Radeon 4850 1GB
• HP Wireless Keyboard + Mouse
• 27" 1920x1080 resolution

Aurora @ 2,693

• Windows 7 Ultimate (1 year LTD warranty)
• Intel Core i7 920 @ 2.66GHz w/ 8MB cache
• GTX 260 1.8GB
• 9GB DDR3 1067MHz RAM
• 1TB SATA Hard Drive
• 27" (don't know resolution)

What are you doing?

Why are you buying Intel chips?

This is my PC. It cost $1300.

Processor: AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 955 Processor (4 CPUs), ~3.2GHz
Memory: 6144MB RAM
Hard Drive: 656 GB Total
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT (1GB)
Monitor: SCEPTRE X246W-1080p Black 23.6" 5ms HDMI Widescreen LCD
Sound Card: Speakers (Sound Blaster Audigy)
Speakers/Headphones: Altec Lansing VS2521 2.1 speakers
Keyboard: Microsoft Comfort Keyboard 2000
Mouse: Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical
Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit (6.1, Build 7100) (7100.winmain_win7rc.090421-1700)
Motherboard: ASUS M4A79T Deluxe AM3 DDR3 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard
Computer Case: Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX

In other words, you're stupid. Don't bother with Intel quads. They're all overpriced. Don't bother with Macs. They're all overpriced.

Just go to newegg.com and build yourself a fantastic rig for half the price. You want OS X? Read lifehacker's articles on building hackintoshes.

 

[Icyculyr]

In other words, you're stupid. Don't bother with Intel quads. They're all overpriced. Don't bother with Macs. They're all overpriced.

Wow that's rude, why don't you just NOT post rude stuff like that, it's unnecessary, and based on YOUR opinion that Intel quads and macs are overpriced.

This thread is about finding a similar comparison to the iMac, of course I'm not comparing AMD, and I would NEVER use them.
The iMac has HT, turbo boosts up to 3.46GHz, and has a very expensive high resolution display, and there are other little things like the mic and isight cam, heck if I didn't like OSX I'd buy it just for the screen and get Windows 7 Ultimate.

Why are you buying Intel chips?

Intel are better imo, I like them and would never use AMD.

You want OS X? Read lifehacker's articles on building hackintoshes.

I don't do things that are illegal.

Just go to newegg.com and build yourself a fantastic rig for half the price.

Sure I can build a fantastic rig for half the price, but it WON'T have the same components.
Nothing you can build or buy from a store compared to the iMac will be much cheaper if at all. The closest display I can find to match the quality is a 30" $1100 monitor, and it wasn't LED backlit.

This iMac is great value for everything except hardcore gaming, if you're happy to play Crysis on low/med settings or on higher settings with a lower resolution then you should be fine, and that's if your even looking at games in that high end category as Crysis.

 

[Varine]

Oh my god why is this still going on!?!?!

 

[Icyculyr]

Why is what going on?, the thread?

 

[InfectedWithDrew]

This iMac is great value

You just invalidated your argument by touting a 2.8GHz processor that costs almost $300 against a 3.2GHz one that costs under $200.

You pose a question to us in your topic. "Can you find a better deal than this iMac?" I not only can find one, I own one and am using it to prove you wrong right now as I type on the keyboard connected to it.

Why wouldn't you use AMD chips? They're way cheaper for the same clock speeds. A 3.2GHz chip from Intel costs almost $1000.

And this comes with no lack of quality, either - I've used both AMD and Intel chips my entire life. Intel knows how to push the boundaries of technologies and their highest-end quads are much more powerful than anything AMD has, but they're not economical at all. Personally, I'll stick with AMD for everything but netbooks, in which case the Atom is the obvious better choice.

So, to repeat myself, you're stupid for buying Intel when you could buy AMD.

Oh, and another thing - violating terms of service is not a crime, just a violation of contract. If you own your software, you're not infringing on any copyright, so they're not going to be able to sue you for any damages, just shut down your computer (hypothetically). So actually, go ahead and make a hackintosh; you'll find it educating and economical.

 

[Icyculyr]

You just invalidated your argument by touting a 2.8GHz processor that costs almost $300 against a 3.2GHz one that costs under $200.

Actually no I didn't, 2.8GHz that turbo boosts up to 3.46GHz faster than the 3.2 when all cores aren't active iirc, and also it's a Core i7, that means it has 4 physical cores that can run two threads, OSX and Windows recognize 8 cores, that's better imo.

You pose a question to us in your topic. "Can you find a better deal than this iMac?" I not only can find one, I own one and am using it to prove you wrong right now as I type on the keyboard connected to it.

With comparable parts, that's the whole point of this thread, comparing the iMac to a similar PC, I could potentially build a better computer than yours for cheaper, they wouldn't have the same parts, but it would be better for me.

Why wouldn't you use AMD chips? They're way cheaper for the same clock speeds. A 3.2GHz chip from Intel costs almost $1000.

And this comes with no lack of quality, either - I've used both AMD and Intel chips my entire life. Intel knows how to push the boundaries of technologies and their highest-end quads are much more powerful than anything AMD has, but they're not economical at all. Personally, I'll stick with AMD for everything but netbooks, in which case the Atom is the obvious better choice.

Because they aren't as good imo, IE there's no HT for starters.

So, to repeat myself, you're stupid for buying Intel when you could buy AMD.

And that's still just as rude as the first time you said it.

Oh, and another thing - violating terms of service is not a crime, just a violation of contract. If you own your software, you're not infringing on any copyright, so they're not going to be able to sue you for any damages, just shut down your computer (hypothetically). So actually, go ahead and make a hackintosh; you'll find it educating and economical.

You may be right, but it's still not the legal way of running OSX, I respect Apple's wishes for OSX to be run how it is.

 

[phyrex1an]

So, to repeat myself, you're stupid for buying Intel when you could buy AMD.

The i5 750 is both cheaper and better than the 965 BE. I heard that AMD was supposed to lower their prices but it seems that it haven't effected the prices here yet.
I was supposed to buy a 965 BE but luckily they released benchmarks on the i5 750 just the day before I was supposed to buy my new system so now I own my first intel system ever

Also, buy a high end sdd in addition or instead of a traditional hdd. That's the best investment you could make in a computer today imo.

As for the actual question, yeah the iMac seems like a pretty decent alternative to the other setups presented so far. I would be pretty surprised if you can't find a cheaper alternative on the PC side though. The verdict is that custom built computers > all.