Looking for someone (or someones) to spark with ;)

Smitty

Member
Currently I'm working on my first real WE project. It's essentially a 5v5 herofest. I'll explain more about it in a minute, but I'm looking for a person (or people) to take a backseat role in making this, coming out with suggestions, ideas, telling me when my ideas are ridiculous, etcetera ;) I leave to the individual how much input they would like to have, and how active that input would be.

The project

As mentioned the project is essentially a 5v5 in which each player picks a hero and trains up that hero in order to gain the upper hand against the opposing team. The actual objective is to push your creep forward and to destroy your opponents' 'portal'. This may sound like a dota ripoff, but allow me to explain why this is not the case;
  • Heroes cannot directly affect the creep. The path for the creep runs around the outside of the map, and the creep are controlled by a computer player.
  • The map has far more emphasis on killing neutral creep, and makes the idea of a 'raid' far more possible than DotA (the map is far more defined in terms of territory)
  • The path to victory lies through killing the opponent-this may seem like a petty difference, but it prevents a team from getting a lucky teamfight and being able to completely turn around a game. However it is very difficult to say that a game is 'won' partway through, unless it turns out to be a complete stomp.

So, to the main mechanics of the game.

Main Mechanics
The creep run along a path around the outside of the map, and a new creep spawns every 45 seconds (this is to prevent too many creep building up and the game eventually having to cope with just too many units). Each time a player scores a kill their team's creep is buffed a little (+1 armour/damage +5 hp) allowing them to push forward slightly more. The path is long enough that getting just a couple of kills and then nothing is not going to end the game fast, but if the other team can't pull it back, they're going to be in trouble eventually. The creep will continue to buff for up to 100 kills, and then will start to spawn at double speed. Once the creep start reaching the other end of the path in sufficient numbers they will be able to destroy the enemy portal (which can fight back to some extent, like a tower with small defensive spells) at which point the game ends.

Current Objectives

These are the most pressing issues I'm currently working on;
  • Complete 30 heroes for first version release (currently 4 finished, 8 more almost there)
  • Consider tweaks to the creep system (changes in the way the creep are buffed etc) to give a more balanced feel, or a slight change in the overall map concept.
  • Remake the terrain. The terrain sucks. Help needed methinks.
  • Conceive side quests. I want the players to have the option to do small quests, maybe just killing in specific monster, or something slightly more elaborate, which will glean small but worthwhile rewards (otherwise unobtainable items, gold, xp, whatever.)

Yet to Come Here

This is not a complete post by any means. I have a lot more needing to be added here, but that will come in time when I can get at my computer (currently on holiday) such as diagrams, hero lists, map links etc. I'll be getting all this done by Monday I hope, but for now this is the best I can do from my phone.

TL; DR

As stated at the beginning of this post, anyone is welcome to chip in to any degree they feel comfortable with, and no knowledge of the WE is necessary, just enthusiasm :) Those who wish to get more deeply involved can just ask and I'll pm you my email for ease of communication. But many thanks in advance to all those who I dare to hope will help in any way they can. Hope you like my map idea thus far, and watch this space for updates!

Thanks for your time,

Smitty :)

Updates

26/09/2011
Just started working on the project again (computer is back!)
Scrapped (temporarily/partially?) the creep pushing system
6 heroes completed, 2 needing minor work
Terrain about to undergo a thorough workout
Working on a new dungeon/quest system for teams

13/1/2012
Terrain completed
Triggers so far reworked for greater efficiency
8 heroes completed;
Illusionist
Sacrier
Gambler
Necromancer
Thundergod
Captain of the Seas
Space Marine
Wild Wizard

25/1/2012
A few abilities reworked for efficiency and appearance, small balances.
Terrain minorly modified, still needing work done.
3 new heroes added;
Ranger
Archmage
Essence Mage (still requiring a small amount of work)
Trying to get more people on board so I can get more done, and see some expansion of ideas/increase in the level of ability working on this thing.

28/1/2012
2 new heroes joining the brawl;
Vampire Queen
Xelor
Essence mage starting to look increasingly difficult, gonna have to have a serious session on this one.

1/2/2012
1 new hero, Leader of Men. Putting hero development aside temporarily.
Further work done on terrain.
Imported all objects/triggers onto actual map. Now everything is in one place.
Finished hero taverns, 14 heroes currently.
Created '-random' feature.
No movement yet for the Essence Mage. I want it to get done, but it's looking tough.
 

azareus

And you know it.
So basically it's Angel Arena but with creeps instead of a killcounter?

It sounds kinda cool. Doubling the speed at 'level' 100 seems a little overpowered, since the winning team most likely already has the upper hand. Not much point in doubling their win chances eh? Maybe give the units some other buff instead.

Also make sure that no heroes can reach the creeps. (Aka. not too long range, no blink etc.)
 

Smitty

Member
Checked that, separated by about 2000 range worth of river :)
I'm in the process of balancing the game at the moment. The reason I wanted to double the creeps at 100 kills is because if a team has got that far, they can't upgrade any more, so if one team has made it to 100 kills, while the other team is still on 90 say, I want the team which has done better to be in a situation where they have the potential to win very easily, but without just GIVING them the game.

Unless I start using another buff counter with a new buff with another 100 levels and so on... :s

Teams can obtain 'special' one-of-a-kind units in their creep lane by completing certain objectives (ie. completing a quest, buying a unit, killing a certain monster) In this way I hope to balance the game between killing and doing small side missions :)
 

Glorn2

Slap n' Tickle
Here is a tip that may help with your problem (something I use in my latest map)
Rather than a buff that upgrades your creeps, why not go with an upgrade? You can set an upgrade easily to add +1 damage and +5 HP to units. Add the upgrade to all of your units (if you already have 200 units made and dont wanna add it individually, add it with a trigger) and whenever you score a kill or w/eset the level of upgrade to current level+1. With this method, it should be possible to lower the levels just as easily. Say, you can complete a quest that lowers your opponents 10 levels or w/e.

In my Rebel Storm game, I use a lot of variables to set levels of units also, to keep it interesting.
Trigger is something like this (in shorthand)

Every 10 seconds
-Create new unit
-set INTEGER1 to INTEGER1+1
--if INTEGER1 =10
---Set INTEGER1=0
---Set INTEGER2=INTEGER2+1
---Set INTEGER3=INTEGER3+1
---Set Upgrade level of CREEP UPGRADE to INTEGER3
----If INTEGER2=10
-----Set INTEGER2=0
-----Set INTEGER4=INTEGER4+1
-----Set Level of ability XXXXXX for above created unit to INNTEGER4
-----Set Level of ability XXXXXX for above created unit to INNTEGER4
-----Set Level of ability XXXXXX for above created unit to INNTEGER4
-----Set Level of ability XXXXXX for above created unit to INNTEGER4
ect


With this, every 100 seconds my units are given their basic upgrade, but every 1000 seconds, their skills are upgraded a level. So, say a unit with a 30 damage storm bolt early game, isnt gonna have a useless stormbolt an hour later. It can be 110 damage or something.

Hope I helped in some way ^_^
 

Smitty

Member
I did consider using a method whereby it was possible to lower the level of upgrade for the opposing team, but decided as a balance mechanism it wasn't viable. I am using upgrades, by 'buff' I meant an increase in the power of the unit, rather than an actual buff. The problem is that upgrades can only have 100 levels. It's a redundant issue anyway, since the project has now altered significantly enough for this to no longer matter :)

Thanks for the suggestion anyway ^.^
 

Glorn2

Slap n' Tickle
hold shift while you double click the "levels" field. You can set it to any number you want. <<Says the guy with a level 300 upgrade.
 

Glorn2

Slap n' Tickle
uhh, that is a good question.. I have been using newen for so long, I cant recall what it adds. I have "allow negative real values" checked, in the FILE--PREFERENCES window. I know you can hold shift and double click to set negative values. Not positive if it is needed to set higher than normal values.
 

inevit4ble

Well-Known Member
No, its not dependent on NewGen. Shift is the key of the gods :p

But in new gen you can tick "Enable No Limits" in grimoires tabs which basically permanently holds shift for you
 

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
But i must warn you, giving an upgrade way more then 100 levels, like 1000 for example will significantly increase the loading time of your map.
 

Smitty

Member
I'd only want a maximum of 5 upgrades like this, with only about 200-250 levels, shouldn't cause too much of a problem?
 

Glorn2

Slap n' Tickle
From experience, a 400 level skill adds about 3-4 seconds to the load time of a map, for me. My computer is pretty outdated, but could be considered "average". Assume 1 second per 100 levels. 10 seconds of load time really isn't bad if your map is good.
 

vypur85

Hibernate
I would strongly suggest you to not focus too much on hero making. 2 or 3 heroes are enough for starters.
Focus more on gameplay and game settings. Once the background system and map playability is done, then concentrate on items and heroes.

Otherwise you'd just abandon this thing.

I can help to create some heroes of your choice. :) (If I'm free, that is.)
 

Smitty

Member
Thanks for the offer :) I could definitely use someone with good knowledge of triggering to take a look over some of my work, and help out with specific areas which I may not be very comfortable with.

I actually have a schedule for the map, although I'm currently without a computer temporarily :( I'm making the heroes first because
1. This is the part that will take the longest.
2. This is actually my first time using the WE, and custom abilities seem to be one of the hardest things to do, bur also a great way to learn all sorts of stuff.
3. by making the heroes first I can then have a good solid base against which to measure the difficulty/scaling of the map.
4. I like to have some playability from the word go, something to test and mess with, and heroes work well in this regard. It also means that once I get to actually making the rest of the map, I have a good solid idea of what I want to achieve. Heroes are easier to change than terrain or dungeons.

In terms of abandoning the project, it's been going strong for almost 6 weeks now, and despite the hiccup of taking a week's holiday and having no computer for a few days, I'm continuing to work on it as often as I can :)

Thanks very much for your feedback though, I'll send you a demo map when I can get at the dam WE if you want so you can have a look through some of the triggers :)
 

Glorn2

Slap n' Tickle
Just to interject, because after a many years of editing, I can attest. Heroes are easy to change, very easy. So why would you want to base the rest of your game on something volatile? If you make a solid backing first, with just a few generic heroes to test with, then your game will have a much more "solid" backing. Just create like 3 heroes with normal object-editor skills that have been minorly edited. Spend an hour on it; and bam, you have something to test with.

Just 2 experienced cents; as I have been following your project ^_^
 

Smitty

Member
Hmm, I spose there is something in that. I've made 8 heroes so far, a couple need small amounts of polishing. I guess with that I could turn my attention to the rest of the map, terrain, quests, dungeons, items etc. Currently that'll be tricky but I think it may be the right way to go from here, or I'll just keep adding more and more heroes forever :p
 

inevit4ble

Well-Known Member
I agree,
You might have heroes but no game.
Build the game then the players.
Without the game there are no players

Also, if you build the systems first then you can start with your 3 heroes or so and already release the map bring out new versions with added heroes and items etc which will draw people into the game. "New Stuff is always exciting" :D
 

Smitty

Member
True, but I'd also like to have enough heroes to start with that there's a good amount of variety, and people will enjoy the first version sufficiently to follow the progress of the map through it's various versions. I'm currently having to write everything I think of in note form on my phone, and I'm now working through a dungeon system to emphasise but not enforce teamplay. Similarly, I already have a good idea of the overall aspect of quests through the course of the game, though of course everything will need adjusting at some point.
 
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