What do you think of this map idea?

[Grurf]

I have had this idea in mind for weeks now, and it has been growing rapidly. As the christmas vacations are coming near (two weeks of free mapping time ) I thought I'd share the idea and ask you for feedback on it. If you steal the idea, that's allright, but please credit. Actually, it's not just an idea, it's a concept.

Footmen Commander
(title subject to change)​

A variation on Footmen Frenzy (not based on that map, but the big idea is from it), with something special: you can't control your troops. All you can order them is:

• Attack-move to the North
• Attack-move to the Southwest
• Attack-move to the Southeast
• Attack-move to the Center
• Fall Back (move back to your camp without attacking)
• Protect Hero (move into a circle around your hero, then hold position in that circle until the order is cancelled or the hero walks)

The fun of this is that it disables any lame microing and fixes everything (or nearly everything) on the heroes. And those heroes won't be normal heroes. They will be incredibly powerful. However, they will also be balanced. Some heroes will be able to slay whole armies alone, but 1 hero killer could slay 3 of them at the same time. Some heroes will be able to sneak into the enemy's camp and kill loads of units, then sneak away again, but 1 item to make them visible and they are in serious trouble. Some heroes will be able to tank whole armies and slay them one by one, but they'll be so slow that once their health is low they're doomed. That way every hero has strong and weak sides. However, the armies won't be completely useless. They can protect their hero, they are needed to get xp in the early game, and, with the right upgrades, they can be stronger than any hero in the game. The heroes will be like this:

Classes:

Mass-killing mage:

Pros:
​

• Can kill whole armies with his spells; massive damage output.
• Has lots of intelligence; he can keep casting as long as he stays near the mana regeneration aura emitter in the middle.
• He levels like crazy because he gets loads of kills; he can also help his hero-killer allies to level.

Cons:​

• Has a hard time killing a hero, as the damage per-unit is quite low.
• Has a low attack-speed, low hitpoints and low armor; he's very vulnerable.
• Low move speed, he has to stay away from the heat of the battles to avoid being killed (although that isn't very hard because he's ranged).

Big weakness:​

The hero-killing rogue. Once this guy has sneaked up close to him he's chanceless. However, the relationship between these two guys is very strange. If this hero spots the hero-killing rogue somewhere, his AOE spells will deal with him in one or two casts, even if he becomes invisible.

Hero-killing mage:

Pros:
​

• The ultimate hero killer. No need to be sneaky, as your spells are just pure single-target power.
• Slowing, poisoning, sleep, stunning... This hero has it all. Any lone visible hero is chanceless against him.
• Hero kills give big bounty and xp, so this hero will earn itself back for the owner with ease.

Cons:​

• Big big cooldowns, no two hero kills quick after each other.
• Even more vulnerable than the army-killer, this guy needs his first-strike.
• Does not receive as much xp and money as the army killers.

Big weakness:​

The hero-killing brute. This hero killer has so much hp that even this hero isn't strong enough to kill him in time. The hero-killing brute will just rush into him and plain bash him down if he doesn't flee.

Mass-killing brute

Pros:
​

• Because of his massive hp, he can just keep on fighting.
• With his AOE attack and spells, he can slowly kill big armies.
• With his defense spells, he's the ultimate tanker.

Cons:​

• Does medium damage against a big area but at very slow speed: hero-killing is nearly impossible for him.
• Although he's the best tanker, he can't flee because of his very slow move speed, he needs something to heal him or he has to fall back in time.
• Because he's fixed on strenght, he won't be able to use his spells that much.

Big weakness:​

The hero-killing Mage. He can neither kill him nor flee before it's too late.

Hero-killing brute

Pros:
​

• Although this guy doesn't have as much hp as his mass-killing brother, he can still serve as a tank.
• His massive damage kills any unit with ease.
• Because of his brute force stats, he doesn't need to think of anything. Just march right to an enemy hero and slay it.

Cons:​

• He is pure single-target, he has trouble fighting against an army.
• Just as the mass-killing brute, he's slow.
• Just as the mass-killing brute, he has very low intelligence, and therefore trouble casting the right spells.

Big weakness:​

An army. Because of his slow movement speed, he is very unlikely to be able to flee.

Mass-killing Rogue

Pros:
​

• Sick high attack speed. He kills units in no-time.
• Sneaky. Can sneak behind an army in a fierce battle, and then slaughter that army from behind very quickly. This hero can turn the tide of battle to his will.
• Multi-target spells. Can attack multiple units in a row, throw a bouncing poisonous dagger etc.

Cons:​

• Very low hp. Although his armor compensates it a bit, he remains vulnerable. Always keep enough mana to sneak away.
• Not that good at hero-killing. His damage is too low, and he lacks the spells. However, he is more likely to kill a hero than the mass-killing brute or the mass-killing mage.
• Although he slays units very fast, he isn't as good at mass-killing as the other ones. The bit of hero-killing weighs up against this though.

Big weakness:​

Anything that prevents him from sneaking away, including:

• Stun
• Mana drain
• Revealing items
• etc.

Hero-killing Rogue

Pros:
​

• Sick high attack speed combined with high damage. He kills everything in no-time.
• Sneaky. Can sneak behind a hero in a fierce battle, and then slaughter that hero from behind very quickly.
• Stunning & Criticals. A deadly combination in the right hands.

Cons:​

• Very low hp. Even lower than the mass-killing rogue. Although his armor compensates it a bit, he remains vulnerable. Always keep enough mana to sneak away.
• Although he's sick good at hero-killing, he shouldn't try anything against armies because of his ultra-low hp.
• He is practically of no use until an enemy hero is near death.

Big weakness:​

The mass-killing mage. Even if he becomes invisible, his low hp will make him a piece of cake for the AOE spells that guy has. If he sneaks away, the mage just casts an AOE spell somewhere near the place where he became invisible and kills the hero. However, the relationship between these two guys is very strange. If this hero stays invisible and concentrates on killing the mass-killing mage then the mage doesn't stand a chance.

Mass-killing ranger:

Pros:
​

• Can kill whole armies with multi-shot arrows; good damage output.
• Has lots of agility; good attack speed, nice armor and medium damage.
• Because of the good attack speed and the multi-shot abilities, she is a quick xp gainer.

Cons:​

• Doesn't kill fast enough to tank it all, she needs an army to take the damage.
• Has low mana, she will have to rely on her attack a lot.
• Isn't as strong as other heroes, because she's ranged while she doesn't rely on her mana.

Big weakness:​

The mass-killing brute. She hasn't got a single way to stop him. He will just rush down her army, no matter what she tries.

Hero-killing ranger:

Pros:
​

• Kills heroes from a distance with her sick damage and attack speed.
• Has lots of agility; high attack speed, nice armor and high damage.
• Can also deal with armies, as she doesn't have to come close and doesn't rely on mana for normal army-killing.

Cons:​

• Is vulnerable for hero-killers herself, she exchanged some of her armor for more speed and damage.
• Has low mana, while she depends on the temporary boosts of her spells to kill a hero before he falls back.
• Even very small armies can easily stop her from pursuiting a hero, because she can't sneak and has low hp.

Big weakness:​

Practically every hero killer. Although she is the strongest of all hero killers as long as she has her boosts on, she always remains the most vulnerable hero because she can't sneak, has low hp and medium armor, and doesn't have any defensive spells.

Units:​

The units won't be very strong, but not too weak either. They can benefit from team-wide upgrades, which will be:

• Attack Damage
• Attack Speed
• Armor
• Hit points
• Evasion
• Critical

Any player of a team can put some of his/her money into upgrades, and the whole team will benefit from it. However, by putting money in upgrades, you will have to face the risk that your hero will get too weak. If other totally focus on their heroes and you upgrade your troops a lot, their heroes will probably p4wn yours. However, your stronger troops will give you big loads of money if you flank them while they are fighting with their unupgraded troops.

Units without upgrades are pretty much cannon fodder, but every unit can be sold for a small amount of money each. That way you don't get those situations like in footmen frenzy, when you have put all your money into your hero and around your base there's a big army of footies, then an enemy hero comes and slays all those footies, going up 2 levels and earning about 1500 gold. Also, if your ally is afk (hasn't generated any event for 3 minutes) you can sell his units for him, so you still avoid that lame situation.

Bases:​

Your base is pretty important, as it makes you win or lose. You lose when your base is destroyed. You win if you have destroyed all enemy bases. But, unlike footmen frenzy, this map won't crowd the main base with buttons. The troop upgrades have a separate building, there's a personal hero shop and revive center, there's a building that is used to command your units etc. The main will only have buttons to attack and to upgrade. Yes, you can upgrade your base, too, although the upgrades are a lot cheaper than the unit ones, as they only affect a single building. The upgrades are:

• Attack Damage
• Hit points
• Race

Upgrading your base a bit is very important, as some heroes (especially the strenght ones) can slay an unupgraded base with your army around it on their own in the latter game. If you upgrade your race, you will also spawn different units. These unit will also benefit from your team's upgrades.

Terrain:​

Muhahaha! I had the taste of terraining some time ago and made a beautiful 4vs4vs4 terrain. No Footmen Frenzy clone anymore!

Modes:​

/*----------------------------------------

Warning! The following section is still unsure!

The default mode is just that everyone can only command the given things (scroll up ) and control their hero. However, at the start of the game, red can choose other modes. The modes red can choose are:

• Everyone has a hero and no troop control
• Everyone has no hero, troop control and a race to choose
• Everyone has a free choice

In free choice mode, it will be clearly visible what every player has chosen, by viewing it on the multiboard.

----------------------------------------*/

Variety:​

After reading Rad's post, I realized that I forgot to mention the things that give this map it's variety. Well, those things are:

• Custom JASS Spells. No lame edits of normal spells that don't add anything special to your map, but original (as far as that's still possible) ideas.
• The ultimates (I want them to be special, and really strategic. If you can come up with any ideas, feel free to post them. I was thinking about things like: Drown, which puts the whole center under water and adds a timer to every unit under water. When the timer expires, they die, and the caster of the ultimate gets the kill. This may sound way overpowered, but will have a huge cooldown. And another idea: Action commands like in paper mario. Well, not really like that, but, for example when the hero-killing rogue casts his ultimate, he has to press the arrow buttons in the correct order in a limited time. If he succeeds, the move insta-kills the target, but if he doesn't, he dies himself and the target gets the kill.)
• The heroes (The classes are not the same as the heroes, the classes are just general guidelines to make the heroes. Plenty of option to vary the heroes themselves, as the classes leave much space.)
• The items (Not ye olde hero boost items, but summon items, that are hard to get, but summon incredibly powerful creatures. These creatures do not just attack, they channel a very big spell, that, for example, calls down waves of healing force for your allies, or that creates an incredibly strong explosion after sucking up a lot of magic energy from it's surroundings. These items do not only turn the tide of a battle, they are powerful enough to turn the tide of the game. Pooling money to an ally can be a very effective strategy to win, as the spells channeled by these summons so strong. However, if you don't manage to get the money in time, you're doomed, because you haven't spend the saved money into your or upgrades.)

________

Well, and that's about it so far. What do you all think of this idea? Should I make it? Should I find a team and make it with it? Any other feedback? Post!

P.S. And after you've (potentially) read all this, you will probably be able to understand why my battle.net nickname is The_Idea .

 

[Lizidian]

Wow very well thought out idea... I really l ike how for each class you have one that is good against units and one that is good against heros and I also like the can only tell your units to attack in one direction... one thing though what happens if your footmen are told to protect your hero then the hero killer comes and uses range and kills him? lol so much for protection

 

[Grurf]

Wow very well thought out idea... I really l ike how for each class you have one that is good against units and one that is good against heros and I also like the can only tell your units to attack in one direction... one thing though what happens if your footmen are told to protect your hero then the hero killer comes and uses range and kills him? lol so much for protection

Of course that protection only works on melee attackers, unless you have saved up an army that is so big that the ranged hero killers can't come close enough .

 

[call me Mike]

omg omgomgomgomgomgomgomg

wow this is thought out quite well (took a long time to read )

can't wait till it is finished

 

[Rad]

Mass killing and Hero killing units? Is that ALL?! I mean sure your going to face armies or heroes but there should be variety (for tactics).

There should also be Hold the Center (With a better name) for command.

As for what I think about this type of map... The name sounds really... well just plain stupid. Just because its a footman war doesnt mean you need 'Footman' in the title. Theres to many of those and its just like "Yep another one of these maps".

If it took your 2 weeks to think of "OH 4 generic classes of hero or mass killing units and chat commands!" I think you need to think of thinking of not thinking to think.

BUT~For all my negativity I offer you help for any of your problems (That I can help with anyways)

 

[Pyromancer]

that was very well thought out. im sure it will take alot of balancing with the heros. their will probly be abunch of versions, all saying: fixed up the balancing

very good tho. i woul probly be addicted to it, if you did it right.

not a good idea to just use footman frenzy. people wont playit if you have that name and that terrain, they'll just say, ahh, not footie's has gon like dota, copies copies copies. make your own terrain!

i would give it 4.5/5 if you did a better name, and new terrain.
and a 3/5 if you didnt

yes i like his idea. there should be a really strong tower in the middle, and a circle of power next to it, and your hero has to stand in it for so long, and youl get control of the tower for so long, display both times in a timer window

 

[mixmax2]

wow very could twist on footmen frenzy, i really like how u cant control them directly.

 

[Grurf]

@call me Mike: I don't think the development would go that fast, but thanks anyway .

@Rad: The variety is mostly in the abilities, and now that I read it over, I see that I totally forgot to mention some very cool ideas I have about the abilities. I will add them in a minute or so (edit: added. look for the header: variety). The classes are very top-level, inside the classes there's space for variety. About Hold the Center: Good idea, although I think it'd be better to call it: attack-move to center. And as you can read, the title is subject to change (no I haven't been thinking about the title for two weeks ). If you know a better name, please come up with it. And do you think I have been thinking 24 hours a day about this map? Not really. If I get an idea, I don't sit down and start brainstorming, I just remember it and let it grow inside my mind. I haven't really taken time yet to sit and think about it. But, thanks for your feedback. Although the negative feedback isn't as pleasant to read as positive feedback, it usually is the only feedback that helps to improve the object.

@Pyromancer:

Indeed, balancing might take the longest time of all the things that have to be done to complete the map. That's why I'll test it a lot before I'll release 1.00. If you know a better name, please suggest it. But well, footies or footmen in the name has 2 different sides, some people think it'll be another boring footmen clone, and some people think it's a new footies and that they gotta try it. But, you're the second one who mentions the name (guess why that subject to change is there ) so I'll think some more about it. About the tower in the middle: I don't think that's a good idea. Just think about what would happen: Some hero takes the tower, then his allies come to the middle, too. Now nobody wants to go to the middle because they will be in great disadvantage because of the tower. And the longer they don't come, the longer the tower stays owned by the hero standing on it. Maybe a tower in the middle would be a good idea, but not in this way.

@mixmax2:

I think you mean "cool" instead of "could", but thanks anyway. Do you have any other feedback besides that you like it?

 

[call me Mike]

i haven'r played a footman frenzy map before... could some one sugest where i could find a good one so i can get the feel for it?

 

[DDRtists]

i haven'r played a footman frenzy map before... could some one sugest where i could find a good one so i can get the feel for it?

Ya from me

Clicky the Linky ( theres reg footies and Halo Footies, Reg is better though... ):

 

[metallic_boy]

I thought of this myself one time actually. The whole, control your troops with commands (no direct control) and stuff. The problem is... It sounds fantastic written, but practically, it's just a pain up the arse. Lets be honest, who wants to play a game where you have to frantically typing or clicking a command? Most people play games to relax. I did this myself once, cept it was an AoS, not a blood map.

Upon testing, it was not a lot of fun (in fact, it was no fun at all). To be honest, it's annoying not being able to control your troops properly. Perhaps a better idea would be after you execute an order, you have to wait another couple of seconds to re-order your troops. I dunno. My advice: keep right away from this.

Overall It's a nice idea. BUT, be careful. Cause when you think about it, having less choice and option affectively Downgrades a map.

Good luck! Ill love to test this, and see if you can pull it off better than I did. But take it from me: It's more a pain up the arse than it is fun.

THE HEROES SOUND FANTASTIC!!!​

Your decision! Happy map-making! Overall 7/10. would give it a 10/10 except from my experiences it isn't too great.

o0O just realised, ud probably put the orders on icons at your base, wouldnt you? WHY DIDNT I THINK OF THAT EARLIER!!! I suggest you do that, if you were initially intending to use chat strings.

 

[Pyromancer]

@Pyromancer:

yeah...


i have an idea, it could be a keyboard event, like, he press top aro, attack north, left arow, attack left........

or you could have a spellbook that every hero has and cant drop, and call it troop order, or something. either that, or have an abbility, or something. (but that would cut down on items or abilitys, respectivly)

 

[Bartuc08]

hers an ability for your mass killing rouge

its called
frenzy- the rogue is put into a beserk state dealing 2x more damage and moving 2x faster, the rogue will take no damage while hese in frenzy, but once his frenzy is over all the damage that he took will take affect at once

so its like u go uber fast and deal awsome damage but once its over your hero is as good as dead, if the intsatant life drop dont kill him the fleeing will

I thought of this myself one time actually. The whole, control your troops with commands (no direct control) and stuff. The problem is... It sounds fantastic written, but practically, it's just a pain up the arse. Lets be honest, who wants to play a game where you have to frantically typing or clicking a command? Most people play games to relax. I did this myself once, cept it was an AoS, not a blood map.

have u ever played golems, evolution or any other mass attack game, people love them games, why, because theyre easy, and fun, hell zergling blood that was one of the best games ever (in my opionion) when u have like 100 troops whats the point in clicking draggin the mouse and attacking when u can click one little button and BAM! they all run over and attack the player

 

[AgentPaper]

For the center, just have a hill and every ## seconds, if all (or most) of the units in the area are owed by one player, that player gets gold. Or split the gold between all players who have units in the center, depending on a ratio of units owned by player/total units in center, that would be better for team-play. You could have some tower system that goes with it too, but nothing that can hold off an army or hero by itself.

 

[Zakyath]

Hey, hey, hey---
hold it! You were thinking of making a thing on warcraft? Get some people to work for you, and you are millionare! Extreme idea! I would never even TRY to put myself in to this! This is probaly gonna be pretty big on Bnet. I don't really like Foormen Frenzy myself, but this is a hell of an idea! But I think that you need to change the heroes a little. I didn't read whole text there. All I read wass Mass Killing Mage, and Hero Killing Brute, and that stuff. They are probaly good, but if there isn't so much more on that, you should give some extra time to fix them. You gonna be big on Bnet, man!

 

[Zakyath]

Forget what I wrote about your heroes. They seem good! But, I agree with some guy who wrote some weeks ago. It's not so relaxing. But It's a damn great idea, I'm gonna write that thousands of times, if no one is there to stop me...

 

[Grurf]

Made some small updates. What do you guys think about the title "Footmen Commander"?

 

[Zakyath]

Yeah, something like that. "Footman Commander(s)"(?)
Or maybe not^^

 

[Jim_skarrj]

i have a couple of hero possibilities i was trying to make an AoS map a long time ago but have given up so here u go..

revent hero - melee intel hero
- fire embers- creates 1-3 embers of fire which float around the battle providing a minor healing aura to allies and minor degeneration aura to enemies, numbers and aura strength increase per level

- Solar orbs- (based on locust) (my favourite skill ive ever made) - creates 1-3 red orbs which have no attack but have phoenix fire, and immolation depending on level it summons more and they get more powerful.

-Aura of Decay - a degeneration aura- which increases with level

-Chaos Magic- the Mage charges his comrades with powerful chaos magic,- target units are healed to 100% gain 50% evasion, and deal quadrouple damage for 30 seconds, but the magic is too powerful for their fraile bodies and they die after its effect.


also have a destroyer hero and a 1/2 made lighting murloc

but cbfed writing them up here so just uploaded the map... here is the link feel free to use my heros if u give me credit.

http://www.savefile.com/files.php?fid=7228895

 

[Cordel]

I started a map that has some common concepts with your idea but I never finished it. maybe you can use some of my triggers.