The Battlefield

[Varine]

Forum: http://thebattlefield.freeforums.org/

The Battlefield is an urban warfare map currently in pre-development and based off the game Battlefield 2142. There will be two teams of five players each, assisted by computer players, in AoS-style gameplay for control of the city.

Gameplay

Spoiler

The gameplay for Battlefield will be similar to that of an RPG and AoS. The two teams consist of five players, as well as one computer player to control the rest of the military. Each player will control a soldier
There will be several 'control points' on the map which will help in achieving victory. If all control points are under your teams control, you will win the game as your enemies will have no spawn-points.
Both teams are given a Base of Operations, which the enemy team cannot enter until all of the other control points have been taken. The only other way to win is to bring the enemy's points to zero. You will lose three points for every soldier that dies and gain two points for every one that you kill. Both teams start with 150 points.
There are also Support Points, which will be used for air-support and various other options.
When someone gets dies, after their health reaches five or so, they will fall to the ground for several seconds before they are fully dead. During this time a medic can come revive them, and they will be given some health to run back. There will also be a short time, right above the death level, when you can kill yourself to avoid giving points to the enemy team. You will lose the points for your death, still.

Players

Spoiler

The player will be choose from several weapons, as well as drive various vehicles, including tanks, APC's, helicopters, HMMV's, and battle-walkers.

Terrain

Spoiler

The terrain will be set up in a way that is more interactive than the standard Warcraft world. The city will be build closer to scale, with several buildings that you can enter.

Other Items

Spoiler

Mines: These mines are available for everyone to use. Unlike the ability-based mines of Anti-Armor and Support classes, these are not specialized and will detonate when any enemy walks over them. They will kill most units in the immediate area of it's explosion, save for vehicles, and will do damage to units around it.
Ammo: You will run out of ammunition eventually. Depending on what weapon you have, every shot you take will have you lose ammo.
Droids: There will be a few kinds of droids that will either be used for scouting or assault. The unit that deploys them will be able to control them, but they will travel around on their own.

[/SPOILER]

Recruiting: I am currently recruiting people to model, animate, and help with the tilesets.
Models I am in need of currently are of soldiers, weapons, vehicles, projectiles, effects, misc. city items (signs, lightposts, stoplights, mailboxes, ect.), and models for the terrain system.

F22/35 (They look pretty similar, don't you think?)
Abrams
Cobra, Apache, some kind of attack helicopter.
Humvee
Battle Walker
And of course the soldiers! (With teamcolor if possible). Here's another one that would be nice to have (probably just replace the texture though)
Transport Plane (Like a C47 with jet engines)
A Cargo Ship


Current Members of the Project:
Waaaaagh - Weapons System
Varine - Terrain System, Models, Basic Triggers

 

[Waaaaagh]

Several things:

1. I suggest 6v6, since it's just as doable as 5v5.
   
2. About your weapon system: I suggest using items for weapons and ammo. For clip, just add charges to your weapon, and remove one each time you fire the weapon. If you have no ammunition in your weapon and you try to fire, you 'dry fire'. I would think that either you could make it so you need to click the weapon to reload it, or (my personal favourite) you have to drag and drop the ammunition you want to use onto your weapon. To equip a weapon, I would guess you would need an ability that targets items (but can only target those in your inventory). You could then leave clicking items for stuff that's more important - for instance, if you have a pump-action 12 gauge shotgun equipped, you can make it so that it has a max clip size of 12, you can load 2 slugs into it with each drag'n'drop, and each time you fire it, it needs to be 'cocked' (done by simply clicking it, or by double right clicking it, depending on if you want there to be a hotkey for it or not). Different variations for different weapons of course.
   
3. If you want this to be a lot of fun, you need to trigger your projectiles using something like MaDOS. That way, shooting somebody is less a matter of 'Did I right click fast enough?' and more a matter of 'Did I aim my shot well?'. This makes projectiles dodgeable as well.
   
4. If you trigger everything, consider adding an 'alternate fire' ability, along with your 'primary fire' one. Primary fire would be stuff like, say, shotgun, fires one slug towards the target point. Alternate fire would be to fire two slugs at once toward the target point. This drains your clip faster, but is more powerful if you are at close range.
   
5. I'm wondering how you plan on terraining the whole city. It would need to be fairly large, but not so large that 12 players are all able to be completely isolated on the map at once. Keep in mind that you may want to add a jump ability to your fighters, to allow them to traverse cliffs downward.
   
6. Each of your spawn points needs its own flavour, and advantage, other than spawns; a warehouse could, for instance, make every unit spawned there have extra ammunitions and med packs, or a bank could give periodic gold to all allied players, or a hospital could provide an area heal around it to friendlies, and give spawns there increased hp regen for their duration of life.
   
7. I might be interested in helping out.

 

[Varine]

I suggest 6v6, since it's just as doable as 5v5.

How so?

About your weapon system: I suggest using items for weapons and ammo. For clip, just add charges to your weapon, and remove one each time you fire the weapon. If you have no ammunition in your weapon and you try to fire, you 'dry fire'. I would think that either you could make it so you need to click the weapon to reload it, or (my personal favourite) you have to drag and drop the ammunition you want to use onto your weapon. To equip a weapon, I would guess you would need an ability that targets items (but can only target those in your inventory). You could then leave clicking items for stuff that's more important - for instance, if you have a pump-action 12 gauge shotgun equipped, you can make it so that it has a max clip size of 12, you can load 2 slugs into it with each drag'n'drop, and each time you fire it, it needs to be 'cocked' (done by simply clicking it, or by double right clicking it, depending on if you want there to be a hotkey for it or not). Different variations for different weapons of course.

I was thinking of having it automatically reload after a few seconds of running out of ammo if you don't do it manually. In real life you'll know when you run out of ammo because it just clicks a lot, but in the game there will be people who aren't paying attention to the ammunition count for whatever reason, so this can alleviate that ossie a little.

If you want this to be a lot of fun, you need to trigger your projectiles using something like MaDOS. That way, shooting somebody is less a matter of 'Did I right click fast enough?' and more a matter of 'Did I aim my shot well?'. This makes projectiles dodgeable as well.

I was considering something like this, however I've never used MaDOS or anything. I know it can be used as a tracking system, but I'm not sure how to use it. I was hoping to find someone, further along when the map is somewhat set up, to help with the projectiles and such. I was thinking about using or making something like Simple Entity Engine or something to simulate physics for grenades and things. There are a lot of things I want to do with projectiles but I'm not really sure how to with the Warcraft engine, which is why I will be looking for someone to help with it when there's a basic map to test it in.

If you trigger everything, consider adding an 'alternate fire' ability, along with your 'primary fire' one. Primary fire would be stuff like, say, shotgun, fires one slug towards the target point. Alternate fire would be to fire two slugs at once toward the target point. This drains your clip faster, but is more powerful if you are at close range.

I may do that, although JASS, which is what most of these system will probably need to be written in, is not something I'm good at so I'll have to find someone to help me with most of it.

I'm wondering how you plan on terraining the whole city. It would need to be fairly large, but not so large that 12 players are all able to be completely isolated on the map at once. Keep in mind that you may want to add a jump ability to your fighters, to allow them to traverse cliffs downward.

It's going to be based mostly on streets (which will either be made from models or a tileset), with buildings around them. There will be a central highway going through it, as well as a river going to the harbor. There will be a city square. The side opposite the harbor will be a small airport. Most of the accesable map areas mostly confined to the roads. I'll make a map and post it sometime.

Each of your spawn points needs its own flavour, and advantage, other than spawns; a warehouse could, for instance, make every unit spawned there have extra ammunitions and med packs, or a bank could give periodic gold to all allied players, or a hospital could provide an area heal around it to friendlies, and give spawns there increased hp regen for their duration of life.

The units are probably only going to spawn at the base of operations, and I'm thinking of a way to make a priority list so they will go defend a point under attack, and if they don't need to defend they will attack and capture other points, as well as leave several units to defend each point held.

I might be interested in helping out.

Mmkay, that would be great.

 

[Vestras]

If you ever need a terrainer, or a GUI triggerer, I'm there.

 

[Waaaaagh]

How so?

Neutral Players (Neutral Hostile and Neutral Passive) can be allied to players.

I was thinking of having it automatically reload after a few seconds of running out of ammo if you don't do it manually. In real life you'll know when you run out of ammo because it just clicks a lot, but in the game there will be people who aren't paying attention to the ammunition count for whatever reason, so this can alleviate that ossie a little.

The answer to this is obviously to have a 'dry fire' sound. It would be fairly easy to find one/make one.

I was considering something like this, however I've never used MaDOS or anything. I know it can be used as a tracking system, but I'm not sure how to use it. I was hoping to find someone, further along when the map is somewhat set up, to help with the projectiles and such. I was thinking about using or making something like Simple Entity Engine or something to simulate physics for grenades and things. There are a lot of things I want to do with projectiles but I'm not really sure how to with the Warcraft engine, which is why I will be looking for someone to help with it when there's a basic map to test it in.

I would not have suggested this if I wasn't able to do it. If you need help, I decided to whip up a quick test, with grenades, jumping, and a sniper. It's really simple if you use an engine like MaDOS.

I may do that, although JASS, which is what most of these system will probably need to be written in, is not something I'm good at so I'll have to find someone to help me with most of it.

You are speaking to a fairly competent Jasser.

It's going to be based mostly on streets (which will either be made from models or a tileset), with buildings around them. There will be a central highway going through it, as well as a river going to the harbor. There will be a city square. The side opposite the harbor will be a small airport. Most of the accesable map areas mostly confined to the roads. I'll make a map and post it sometime.

Very interested to see what you have planned, since the terrain I think will be a major part of a game like this.

The units are probably only going to spawn at the base of operations, and I'm thinking of a way to make a priority list so they will go defend a point under attack, and if they don't need to defend they will attack and capture other points, as well as leave several units to defend each point held.

Sounds good, but the spawn points can add these things to your main spawns too.

Mmkay, that would be great.

PM me when you feel like letting me in on the project.

 

[Varine]

MCR-ELSKER: I was intending to get some of the models done before making the terrain so that there's something to look at to make it good, so I'll try and get some done pretty soon if you still wish to help.

Waaaaagh: When we get a little further along I'll send you a message. Right now I'm mostly just working on models and trying to think of weapons to use, so I'll send you a message when everything is a little more definative.

 

[Waaaaagh]

Guarantee: You will not get the support you want for the project (models, etc.) unless you have something to show that you are not just another noob trying to start a project, that you are going to drop in a week because you get bored and have a new idea. Thus, I would say you need something like, say... a weapon system. There are plenty of models you can use in wc3 that look modern enough (and there are lots of explosions and icons for weapons).

 

[Varine]

Well if you want to start working on it that's fine. I just assumed you would prefer to see something done and working in the game before you began work.

 

[Waaaaagh]

Heh, it's easy enough. I have sniper, grenade, jump, and artillery done . These are all fairly... straight forward. I guess I will work on a shotgun and SMG now, but other than that, you will need to prompt me for more weapons. Also, if you would care to PM your email or something similar so I can send you the map.

 

[Syndrome]

you should use the Particle System for grenades, explosions, bullets, collision with walls, etc.
thers a tutorial somewhere in this forum, search it out.

 

[Waaaaagh]

you should use the Particle System for grenades, explosions, bullets, collision with walls, etc.
thers a tutorial somewhere in this forum, search it out.

Or better yet, MaDOS, since the Particle system was written in the 14th century.

 

[Varine]

Okay, I've a new idea which I would prefer to get public support from before doing.

Rather than make a traditional city map for the game, which would need to be somewhat large to incorperate the vehicles and such, and would also be somewhat limiting in terms of strategy, I make a 'smaller' map, which is made more to scale. Rather than line the blocks with a thousand buildings, I instead make a few of them, and just a few city blocks, but make them larger to be more realistic and scaled a little more appropriately. And with those buildings, you will be able to have more interaction.

I'll give essentially the same example I gave to Waaaaagh:

You and your allies in fighting for control of the bank. There's a huge battle going on, and you've got the slow-firing sniper rifle. You've now basically got two choices in a normal map: You can stand behind the safety of your allies and fire off rounds at the enemy units, or you can work your way behind your enemies and shoot at them there, and hope no one notices and no one else shows up and finds you, because you're pretty much screwed if someone with a machine gun finds you. Sure, you about kill him with that first shot. But how long will it take for him to kill you while you wait until you can fire off another round?

Or, with my system: You run back and get inside the bank and get onto the roof. You run off and take a few shots at the enemies, weaken up the stronger ones. With your ability to jump, you make your way to the adjacent building and watch for reinforcements. After a bit, your enemies bring out a tank. Perfect. You don't have a rocket launcher to take that thing out. But Player 4 does, and what's stoping him from getting up there with you to take out the armor?

I'm not sure how I'm going to implement this, but I've got some ideas that may or may not work, we'll have to see.

 

[Waaaaagh]

I like that idea. This way, while vehicles have clear superiority in speed and (in some cases) armor/firepower, basic infantry can still get to places that those damn bastard tanks can't. All in all, it's a win. Something I wouldn't do:

Droids. That's simply going to kill parts of teamplay. Why get your team to scout when you can buy a droid to do it for you? Not to mention it will likely break the immersion. Having to worry about the droid and yourself really could make things too complicated.

The weapon system is coming along - not only with just the basic attacks, but the load, equip interface is almost there. What that really means is, I'm nearing the point where I can spend a week working out all the bugs.

<I want to see some terrain>

 

[Varine]

I'll get something done pretty soon. Thinking of a way to do it in a way that will work.

 

[Waaaaagh]

Sounds good. But while we're here, I had sort of a problem. See, while I was designing this weapon system, it turns out that I added functionality for using different types of ammos with a single weapon. I don't know what we could do to solve this except for to incorporate such a feature into the game. *nudge*

 

[Varine]

Do you mean you made a gun that can use any kind of ammo? If not you should try and clarify it a bit.

Also, I'm going to use a wall system that basically will make things be used as bridges. I'm having some issues trying to find a way to it so that people can't run up on top of them from the ground, but that can be rectified easily. The only thing that's really troublesome is the collision, as I can't add those movement blocks to restrict it in that many places.

The indoor system is going to be a little different. I'm going to lock the camera in a position that will follow your unit while inside. I'm trying to make it so you don't accidently walk over the transport region when fighting.

 

[Waaaaagh]

Custom models + Custom Pathing maps are your friend.

BTW, I'm done with weapon system (unless I find more bugs). Now I just need to implement it into the current weapons, and from now on, any new weapons will use the system.

I don't mean any ammo. What I mean, is that you can configure multiple (up to 8, but it could easily be 100) ammo types to be able to load into a single weapon type. What's better, is you can load different types of ammo into the same weapon at the same time. Dragndrop a stun grenade into your grenade launcher, and then a big boom grenade after that. The next time you fire your weapon, it will shoot the stun grenade. The time after that, it will shoot a big boom grenade. See what I mean? Different ammos have different effects.

This also means that you can make a pump-action shotgun that requires shotgun ammo, and a automatic shotgun which requires the same ammo. And you can even use the same ammo crate to load the two different weapons.

Anyway, I just need to actually trigger the effects (since ya know, it's cool that I can load different types of ammo, but it don't DEW anyting...).


EDIT: While you are doing this camera thing, try to bear in mind that you still need to be able to aim weapons while in the building . Also try to bear in mind that, if you want stuff to bounce off of walls, then... that's just not really feasible, unless I can petition MaD[Lion] to add a 'confine to rect' function for objects...

Anyway, I was thinking about stuff like cooldowns, and I thought, 'Why do we need cooldowns?' I think that we are actually better off without them. The main deciding factor in rate of fire is how many ammunitions are in a clip, (slow rate of fire, we put it at one), and possibly then it comes down to how fast can you click. I'm not saying that we should do away with cooldowns. What I'm saying is that they should be very short, so that firing quickly becomes more of a timing skill than an uber click war. Too fast, and you get the error message, and you have to reclick, etc. Too slow, the other guy is already shooting. Just right, and you are uber.

BTW: I incorporated shotgun and sniper into ammo system, and it's really hawt. It really is fucking hawt. But I don't want to go much further until you get some sort of layout, and some damn SPAWNS I can playtest on .

 

[Waaaaagh]

Woops, I just bumped this thread for the sole purpose of hopefully getting something exciting to happen.

 

[C0mput3r]

If you're open to suggestions to (hopefully) improve gameplay.

I like that idea. This way, while vehicles have clear superiority in speed and (in some cases) armor/firepower, basic infantry can still get to places that those damn bastard tanks can't. All in all, it's a win. Something I wouldn't do:

Well then it would make it kinda cheap, cuase all you'd do is sit on the roof of a building with a rocket and a sniper waiting for a tank to come by.

Also, maybe make it so that all weapons are balanced, Sniper, low rate of fire, high damage, long range, Rifle, medium rate of fire, medium damage, medium-long range, Pistol, medium rate of fire, medium-low damage, medium range, easy to find ammo. I'd be glad to help with any balancing problems you have, cuase I think I have a knack at balancing.

Also, if this is gonna be anything like Call of Duty, which I believe is very realistic, you should have high health for infantry, cuase usually, 45% of the time, a bullet ISN'T fatal. (With armor on, of course ) Or else it might be, everyone grab a sniper and fire it cuase it 1-hits everything!!!

Also: I'm pretty sure bullets dont bounce of walls

Spoiler

However, I also have a knack for imagining to have a knack at things..

 

[Waaaaagh]

Ahh. I wish I could show you the tech demo I have up and running, but I don't have any way of privately getting it to you. Essentially, weapons are balanced by the weapon system, and by 'how' exactly they fire.

For instance: A sniper rifle has a clip size of 2. This means you can load up to 2 ammunitions in it at a time. It has a reload size of 1, meaning that you can only put one round in at a time. So, a fully loaded sniper rifle can take two shots before needing to reload. How long it takes you to reload depends solely on how fast you are. To reload, you right click some ammo in your inventory, and drop it on your weapon. So, this necessary reload lowers the rate of fire on a sniper rifle considerably.

However, an assault rifle uses magazines. You can load (undecided, but a relatively high number) ~150 ammos into it with a single drag and drop. Primary fire [A] is burst fire (3 rounds per use of the ability). Alternate fire [G] is fully automatic; you channel the spell, essentially unloading around 5 rounds per second. This gives the assault rifle a much higher rate of fire than the sniper.

As for bouncing goes, you must realize that units are treated as objects too. So, if I shoot you with a shotgun, point blank, you go flying back. If you happen to be on the edge of a building when this happens, you fall. If you run into a wall while being shot backward, you bounce forward, but lose a lot of momentum. You cannot move while in the air, but, while being pushed back, if you are on the ground, you have a slight control of where you are going (you can usually keep from going off a cliff as long as you are touching the ground).

None of what was mentioned above is theory - it's all been done, and is part of the tech demo.