The Battlefield

[C0mput3r]

Very Nice

I like how it is being put to the test on realism. Drag-Drop ammo into the gun is so ... real

Just gotta worry about the UI, is it hotkey friendly, everything seems good. Left hand for [A][E][R][F] and right hand for mouse. However that takes out the possibility of a Custom Moving System. (Unless our third hand can control the arrow keys)

 

[Varine]

cuase usually, 45% of the time, a bullet ISN'T fatal.

Off topic a bit, oh well:
Umm... just because it isn't fatal doesn't mean if you got shot you're not going to be screwed. I don't know if you've ever actually been shot, but I got hit in the leg once and I could hardly get to cover with my friend's help. I mean, it was far from being fatal, but if you get shot once or twice, it doesn't really matter if it would be fatal because you're pretty much done if you can't get out before someone sees you're still alive and gets another round off at you.
So it's not really 'realistic' to give them a lot of health. I'm thinking of a system where you can be revived after a few seconds, as well as a damage system that will hinder you if you're hurt pretty bad.

Also, where did you get 45% from? I don't know if you've seen a war lately (Iraq and Afghanistan are good examples), but... of all the people that were shot, I seriously doubt that only 45% weren't fatal.

Also: I'm pretty sure bullets dont bounce of walls

We never said they did. I'm trying to make sure that grenades bounce off the walls, though, which in effect make it so bullets do as well.

 

[Waaaaagh]

We never said they did. I'm trying to make sure that grenades bounce off the walls, though, which in effect make it so bullets do as well.

Not true. Most bullets die when they contact the ground or another object.

 

[Varine]

Not true. Most bullets die when they contact the ground or another object.

Well there you go, problem solved.

Also, I'm having a few issues with the terrain that I'll try and get solved this week. Mostly with collision, trying to make the walls actually act like walls. Will your projectiles respond to pathing blockers or do I need to find another way around it?

 

[C0mput3r]

Off topic a bit, oh well:
Umm... just because it isn't fatal doesn't mean if you got shot you're not going to be screwed. I don't know if you've ever actually been shot, but I got hit in the leg once and I could hardly get to cover with my friend's help. I mean, it was far from being fatal, but if you get shot once or twice, it doesn't really matter if it would be fatal because you're pretty much done if you can't get out before someone sees you're still alive and gets another round off at you.
So it's not really 'realistic' to give them a lot of health. I'm thinking of a system where you can be revived after a few seconds, as well as a damage system that will hinder you if you're hurt pretty bad.

Just saying since alot of shooting games in WarCraft kill you with 3- hits, take the new Archer Wars game by clezzzzzz (sorry bad spelling) normal arrow is 200 damage life is around 500 I believe? I dont want a game with this potential to become an instant kill game where people spam clicks everywhere to get kills.

Im talking about every weapon. As in a bullet from a Pistol hurts as much as a Bullet from a sniper.

 

[Varine]

Well that's kind of what a war's like. People just spray bullets at you and hope they don't miss.

 

[Waaaaagh]

To optimize stuff, you generally want walls to be terrain. That's why I was concerned with plans to make buildings with models, etc. Projectiles are moving at such high speeds that they could go through objects, and, since I can't intercept multi-sampling calls, a IsPointPathable() call would only be semi accurate. What this means, is that either pathing blockers/walls need to be the size of farms, or you need to use terrain.

In my opinion, bullets are pretty much fatal. They were designed to kill things. The thing that makes you not die is cover. I'm hoping that the terrain will have plenty of opportunities to provide cover. This would mean that the difference between life and death comes down to who can see more of the battle field at once (not as far as visibility, but instead, a matter of in your head, seeing the battle evolve). And, you need to be able to aim.

On some offhand comment, if we up collision size of vehicles enough, then they can make excellent cover; tall enough that a sniper can't get an angle on you if you position the tank between you and him. Of course, this means, on the ground, pistols don't get through the tank well at all. However, grenades are pure awesomeness, and can be lobbed onto the top of tanks, just a little to their side, so that they role down, and then explode.

 

[Varine]

Well, I can't get the terrain to work unless we scale down the units like ten times because of the tier thing, unless I can find a way to make them not do that. And if that happens then we come to the problem of the textures, as I'm limited to two of them for cliffs so I would nee to make a lot of buildings to go on top of the cliffs and move them downward, which would be fine for everything save maybe the filesize. But then there's an issue with the interior, with the walls again I would need to get models to put over them. So if anyone knows a way to change the cliffs then I can probably do it.

Hey, you're physics system detects slopes doesn't it? How steep would I have to make something for units not to be able to run up it?

I tried to see what I could get to work in the demo you sent me, but whenever I add something in it won't load up anymore so I gave up with that.

 

[Waaaaagh]

You have to save the map before you test it, using newgen.

Anyway, for steep cliffs, I think something that goes up two cliff heights would be too steep (it would need to do it in one gridsize).

 

[Varine]

Well the only way I can think of to scale everything properly would be to either bring everything down so it's really small, or to make the cliffs really steep and put everything over and around it.

 

[Waaaaagh]

You should prolly go with the first one. That would make things so much easier. We can use a camera that's closer than normal, but the best part is we can make projectiles move slower, which allows us to drop the multisampling rate of the object engine, meaning it runs faster.

Feel free to scale everything down. Still you should use steep cliffs, though.

 

[Waaaaagh]

Crap, I think I bumped this...

 

[Varine]

Still recruiting people to model. So that everyone can take part with ease, I'll make you a list of things we need! And yes, I am aware that most of these I can find on Hiveworkshop or something, but I dislike that place kind of, and only go there to get help/to help. Besides, I dislike the people that made a lot of the models.

Anyway, the list!

F22/35 (They look pretty similar, don't you think?)
Abrams
Cobra, Apache, some kind of attack helicopter.
Humvee
Battle Walker
And of course the soldiers! (With teamcolor if possible). Here's another one that would be nice to have (probably just replace the texture though)
Transport Plane (Like a C47 with jet engines)
A Cargo Ship

We also need things that you would find in cities (like signs, stoplights, civilian cars, a parking complex, ect), at airbases (control towers, hangers, blinky runway lights, a runway, some ammo boxes, fuel trucks, ect), at naval bases (moored warships, cargo crates, those pier things, boxes of storage, anchors, tie-pillars that go on piers, fuel boats/areas, cranes), and things that would go inside various buildings (banks, churches, police station, parking complexes, hospitals, and those kinds of places)

Oh, and projectile art things are needed. A missile, grenade, explosions... things like that.

And if you happen to be on the US West server generally and are looking for a clan, I heard that Clan AotV is looking for members *cough**cough*

 

[Waaaaagh]

Stop making me bump this!

 

[Varine]

Stop making me bump this!

I meant to get the terrain done a while ago, but then I got caught up a bit with school and got excited about possible deployment and I kind of forgot about it. Since I know you want to see something I'll see if I can get the bank to work and get some screenshots somewhere. I'll not use the textures and stuff I was going to because I need to finish those still and it'll take longer, I'll just update it later.
Sorry, my bad....

 

[Waaaaagh]

Sounds cool.... is it actually gonna happen?

 

[Varine]

Sounds cool.... is it actually gonna happen?

The terrain? Yes, I'm using cliffs (since it would be way too hard to make the system respond to doodad collision, I assume) and I'm making some textures to place on plane models to hide the cliff. I will be lacking the decorations (tables, teller booths, church pews, ect), although I'm thinking of a way to make these more dynamic.
Would it work to make some parts of the doodads (like the tables, things that are moveable) into units instead so that the grenades will work with them like they do units (push them away) and the bullets will collide so that they can be used as cover of some kind? I don't remember if any of you bullets go through units, but if it's possible to make some of them do that it would be pretty cool (like a sniper rifle, shotgun, ect).

Also, are you still using MaDOS or are you waiting for that new system?

 

[Waaaaagh]

Heh. Oh man. You don't even understand. You can make tables and stuff objects. And you can make stuff bounce off of them. And you can use jump to push stuff around, to block entrances, etc., and make makeshift barricades. That's why physics systems rule.

I'm trying to get away from MaDOS, and am trying to write my own object system. I have this theory that I can make a faster one if I inline everything and whatnot.

 

[Varine]

Heh. Oh man. You don't even understand. You can make tables and stuff objects. And you can make stuff bounce off of them. And you can use jump to push stuff around, to block entrances, etc., and make makeshift barricades. That's why physics systems rule.

I'm trying to get away from MaDOS, and am trying to write my own object system. I have this theory that I can make a faster one if I inline everything and whatnot.

Well I don't know how the systems work in Warcraft since they are really pretty makeshift. I understand systems that are made specifically for collision and deformation and such for higher end games, but as the systems for Warcraft are all made using a relatively limited integrated editor, I don't know where the line is cut off at.

 

[Varine]

Okay I am making a full list of units that I will be making; not all of them playable, and will only be used for air drops or strikes. The two teams will be the US and Russia, fighting for control of the city.

Right now I'm looking up Russian counterparts to the US vehicles I'll be using.