Labyrinth: need ideas.

[Pender]

Hi guys,

So I made this map, The Labyrinth, which features a randomly generated maze on each level. The idea is that you have to visit each of four treasure rooms around the periphery and then return to the beginning to beat the level. There are monsters with fairly intelligent scripted behavior that slowly walk around the maze and attack whomever they see. They are too big to get around, and you cannot attack, so if you get cornered (and you do; all the time), you have to use one of five items that are scattered everywhere:

• a wand of teleport other: randomly teleports monster to elsewhere in the maze
• a scroll of teleport self: randomly teleports self to elsewhere in the maze
• a net: holds a monster in place for 10 seconds
• a potion of healing: heals 200hp of damage
• dynamite: definitely the coolest item, it breaks down a section of wall so you can pass

Each level has a fewer items and more monsters. I'm really happy with the way the difficulty gradually scales up; level one is trivial for players who understand what's going on, and level ten is very difficult even for a team of skilled players. I also really like the gameplay. It's challenging and interesting to make your way around and through the maze, heading off monster confrontations with a different use of items.

But I'm worried it's too monotonous or repetitive. Players always ask how many levels there are, and most seem bored after five levels or so.

So I need advice about how to spice things up. New items? New kinds of monsters? Some kind of boss?

• New items: I have no idea what these could be. I don't want anything overpowering. Should there be a way to kill monsters outright? (I am kind of resisting this idea.)
• New monsters: Again, no idea what these should be. I have "phantoms" which appear if you spend too long on a level; they are like normal monsters, except they pass through walls, have a short-range projectile attack, and never lose track of you once they see you. These are basically meant as a kind of sudden death mode, because once they are on the level you have to win fast or they will kill you. I'm hesitant to introduce the idea of flying monsters as a matter of course, because most of the fun of the game is using the contours of the maze to escape the monsters.
• Bosses: This one seems interesting to me. After a short brainstorm, I got the idea of a dragon boss, probably with the "Nether Wyrm" graphic. To beat it, you'd have to use a net on it while it is over a pit. After you beat a boss, I could change the appearance of the following levels with different destructibles for walls and different floor tiles. But the problem remains: what would be different about the gameplay of the levels?

I attached the map. I'm very happy with it, and I'd like to keep working on it, but I think it needs something new and I don't know quite what.

 

[linamus]

Best idea should be making fightable bosses and leveling heroes. You are on level two maze section. You aren't strong enough to beat this section's bosses. But now you can return and kill any level mob in section one for xp and items. (not easyly ofcourse)


[wap]

 

[Pender]

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, that would require giving units attacks, which is contrary to the entire gameplay philosophy. The point of the map is that you have to avoid the monsters, not fight your way through them.

 

[linamus]

It's just an idea. Make some item (that can be actively given completing section) that cast some amount of damage and previous section mobs available as targets.



[wap]

 

[Psiblade94122]

add in puzzles and traps <team based>

something like walk though a spike trap to open the gate, then beond the gate there would be a step to turn off the traps

or do it boktai style, there are rooms inside of the lyberinth, when entered <for the first time> the exits are sealed off, then the players are given a task. If they suceed a chest is spawned for all of them, if they fail a player will fall victim to the laberinth <death, not defeat>

make the bosses like the bosses from impossible bosses, make them a challange to beat instead of just normal attack

 

[Kyonu]

I like the items, but there aren't enough. Add some really "fun" items to spice things up. If the Maze is dark, add a light bubl to see enemies, so you can make your way around them in a different way.

Examples:

Poison Bottle - Deals damage over time to any target, and they cannot move. Lasts ten seconds.
Decoy - Places a decoy with X health, and makes you invisible for 3 seconds.
Replacement - (pick an item, I dunno which) Replaces you and target friendly player's positions. (could be interesting!)



And of course, you can have a levelling system, so your character can have more HP + armor + speed, able to carry more, etc. A good game mechanic, "Create Item", which can be a levelled ability to create random items of random levels.

There are many more ways to spruce it up, but as it is right now, it sounds fun!

Also, on some levels, add a Bonus level occasionally, or even a different type of level, instead of a maze. Like an Item battle, where you have to defeat foes/allies in a small arena, using only the items in the game. There could be spike traps, landmines, pits, etc.

EDIT: After playing what you had made, I noticed how it could get repetitive. It's all the same stuff over and over. Add more creatures, make the mazes bigger, add bonuses for those who get to the treasurey spots first, etc, to make it more entertaining. Bigger maps is my main concern, though. The way it's set right now, if you have enough explosives, you can get to all the treasure rooms waaaay too easily. I beat the first map in under 5 mins.

 

[MurderMode]

A mirror image spell/item could be useful in the game for misdirecting the monsters.

Also, maybe a cyclone spell with no damage that can be controlled by the player and just lift the monsters off the ground for a short period of time could work.

Another item ability you could have could be mana shield.

Instead of giving the player unit no attack, you could give them a basic attack and then in the game give them the 'cargo hold (orc burrow)' ability to disable it. This would just make it easy so that you could put in bonus levels that may require a basic attack to be used, so you could just remove the orc burrow ability from the units.

You could also put instant use power ups in the game too, like for speed, etc.

 

[Darthfett]

Even small things can make your map much more fun. I got to level 8 solo, before I died. (first try).

You can have game modes, or possibly harder levels where the maze is not lit.

Stunning items with low damage, to make killing the monsters possible, but hard.
Windwalk type item (invisible, and can go through monsters temporarily)
Speed potion or something similar
Have speed monsters that do very little damage, but are very hard to get rid of (maybe they will follow you for a short time?)
an item that lets you blink over a rock, so that you can escape from a monster. Maybe it targets the rock, and automatically moves it onto the other side?
Monsters that can kill rocks (limit this). Maybe have him do a whirlwind type attack that destroys all the rocks around him occasionally.
Endurance Aura levelable ability.
Slow item that lets you slow a monster.
Short Divine shield ability.
Knockback item of some sort.

As I was playing I rarely picked up a healing item or dynamite, because the teleporting items were so good. I think the monsters should be almost as fast as you are, but hit a little less damage.

 

[Kyonu]

You can have game modes, or possibly harder levels where the maze is not lit.

As I was playing I rarely picked up a healing item or dynamite, because the teleporting items were so good. I think the monsters should be almost as fast as you are, but hit a little less damage.

Those are the moneyshots.

 

[hawky287]

i dunt know why but when i first read ur map i instantly thought of like polar escape or something
i think u could make levels like that?
like ice paths when u have to keep moving and stuff
or maybe u have to dodge projects monsters etc
it would be nice in a labrinth in stead of just running around, see a monster, press telport n running away.

 

[Kyonu]

Mmmno.

 

[Pender]

Working on another version with traps, more monsters, reusable artifacts, and a store to buy them. Thanks for all the ideas.

 

[Pender]

You can have game modes, or possibly harder levels where the maze is not lit.

Yeah, I was thinking about this, but I think it makes the gameplay less satisfying. It's nice to know where the monsters are and plan around them.

Monsters that can kill rocks (limit this).

Actually I'd already scripted it so the demons can kill rocks. If you're on the opposite side of a wall from them, they will often attack the wall.

As I was playing I rarely picked up a healing item or dynamite, because the teleporting items were so good.

Weird! When I play, I basically use dynamite exclusively, with teleport items only when I'm in trouble or can't find dynamite. I wonder if your experience would be different in a multiplayer game, where items are a little more scarce because they're divided among more players.

I think the monsters should be almost as fast as you are, but hit a little less damage.

Decent idea, but then I'd have to slow the whole game down. If it gets too fast, it's too hard to click on items in your inventory in time. Also, I kind of like the progression of difficulty as it is. Level 1 is basically a warmup and only people who have no idea what they're doing will die. But by around level 10, it starts getting really challenging even for advanced players.

 

[Pender]

I like the items, but there aren't enough. Add some really "fun" items to spice things up.

I am. In the works: Ring of Recall, Staff of Destruction, Boots of Speed, Pendant of Safety. None is a charged item; they have cooldowns, and you buy them at stores which are randomly placed one per level.

Add more creatures,

Definitely doing that. I've got a gold stealer, item stealer, and paralyzer in the works. I am toying with the idea of a monster who can shoot projectiles at you if there are no walls in the way, but I think the scripting would get really hairy.

make the mazes bigger,

I don't want to do this. I like the current density of treasure rooms; they are just far enough apart to make it challenging to get from one to the next without it getting boring.

add bonuses for those who get to the treasurey spots first,

I am doing this in the form of coins that spawn in the treasure rooms. The first player there has the first shot at picking them up.

The way it's set right now, if you have enough explosives, you can get to all the treasure rooms waaaay too easily.

Well yeah, but items start to get scarce on the later levels. It's hard to keep a full inventory of dynamite.

I beat the first map in under 5 mins.

Well that's good, because if you take longer than five minutes on any level, phantoms start to appear to put pressure on you. But yeah, the first level is supposed to be really easy. It's a chance to stock up on items and give new players a chance to learn the ropes without facing monsters around every corner.

 

[Darthfett]

Decent idea, but then I'd have to slow the whole game down. If it gets too fast, it's too hard to click on items in your inventory in time. Also, I kind of like the progression of difficulty as it is. Level 1 is basically a warmup and only people who have no idea what they're doing will die. But by around level 10, it starts getting really challenging even for advanced players.

I think it would make it based more around skill. You can use hotkeys to use the items fast (numpad), and it would make the game seem more exciting, since you aren't seeing monsters everywhere, but rather stalker-like monsters.

Great ideas here!

 

[R@i_no_Wyrm]

Get some more tricks to open the path.
Random mazes? Really? Then u can play it several times if there's enough randomization :
-random item types in a level
-random monster types
-Random wall placement
-Random treasure room placement
-More monster capability. Maybe make some monsters with windwalk every 5 seconds and the ww lasts 2s?
-Ways to kill monsters
-Add suprises
-Add unique feature each level
-etc etc