Swarm Hosts op?

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
Hi guys.
First thing first; i dont own HotS and I didnt play WoL for like a month now, but i am still watching the pros.

I have seen several games recently and it just seemed like swarm hosts are pretty darn powerful.
But my main concern is not the 1v1, its probably going to sort out there, but the 2v2, 3v3, etc.
In those match ups swarm hosts seem to be incredibly overpowered.
If, in a 2v2, one player goes for pure swarm host and gets covered by his ally there is nothing the other team can do exept for a base race or very sneaky play.

I was thinking about the following:
How would it be if the locust of the swarm host would die if the swarm host dies or if it gets unburrowed. Similar to how the interceptors of the carrier die.
I think that would make them a little bit more risky, because right now, the risk is pretty low for the high reward.
Zerg can just move a bunch of swarm hosts close to an expansion, burrow, unburrow and run away. The locusts will destroy the expansion or weaken the enemies army without the chance for punishment.

What do you think?
 

Slapshot136

Divide et impera
air + mobility counters them - as far as 2v2 games, it's a lot harder to balance, but I still don't think that they are OP - they cost 200/100, and it takes ~4 marines to take down one swarm host (100 gas difference) - I would expect 2 zealots to be able to do the same, and stalkers can kite around the swarm hosts (sacrifice a couple of buildings if necessary, and wipe out the swarm hosts) , vs zerg, lings can easily run around the locusts and snipe the swarm hosts themselves
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
No. Swarm Hosts can get shut down easily with detection and air. Protoss have also Phoenix (lifting them unburrows them). Terran can still fairly easily harass and shut down Zerg as long as the drop skill and macro skill is there. Also Hellbats. Zerg can counter Swarm Hosts with either Swarm Hosts of their own or Mutas.
 

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
Problem in 2v2 is that zerg gets aroun 20 swarm hosts (getting fed with gas from ally) and the ally gets some meat to buffer (zealot + stalker) / (Marine + Marauder + Medivac) and from there it goes downhill for the enemy team.

Watch MLG pro invite team challenge where Drewbie (T) and Vibe (Z) beat almost every opponent with this strategie unless the enemy goes for a base race. With the base race its hard to tell who is going to win. It depends on the map i guess.
 

Slapshot136

Divide et impera
Problem in 2v2 is that zerg gets aroun 20 swarm hosts (getting fed with gas from ally) and the ally gets some meat to buffer (zealot + stalker) / (Marine + Marauder + Medivac) and from there it goes downhill for the enemy team.
2v2 with an ally pooling another is already fairly OP.. for example, here is a high-level game where that occurs and one player masses pheonix

now are you going to say that mass pheonix is OP?
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
Staff member
Swarm hosts have pretty amazing timings versus protoss in 1v1. I am not completely sure about 2v2. The key to dealing with them 1v1 is to, well, scour and prerpare for it. If the swarm hosts are out and you haven't scouted them chances are that you won't survive the attack.
 

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
I think my general problem with the swarm host is the scalability.
A few are easy to overcome, but with each other swarm host you get, their usefulness rises exponentially.
 

Slapshot136

Divide et impera
I think my general problem with the swarm host is the scalability.
A few are easy to overcome, but with each other swarm host you get, their usefulness rises exponentially.
but at some point the other person would also get a critical mass of siege tanks/collosi/etc.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
I'd argue that Siege Tanks and Colossi would be out faster than Swarm Hosts in critical masses... Think about it, Hive Tech is required for Swarm Hosts. Swarm Hosts are T3 whereas Siege Tanks are T2(.5) and Colossi are T2.5-3. You have to basically skimp on everything in order to get Hive fast enough to have some Swarm Hosts.
 

Slapshot136

Divide et impera
swarm hosts are T2.5, and colossi are T3 - I agree with sevion, siege tanks/collosi would be faster to get, although a minor bit of repairs/shield micro/high ground advantage may be needed until that critical mass is reached
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
Honestly, an easy way to beat Swarm Hosts is to lift them with your Phoenix. I assume you'll have an observer out. If you lift burrowed Swarm Hosts, they don't burrow after the spell ends. They stay above ground.
 

Nigerianrulz

suga suga how'd you get so fly?
The way to beat mass swarm hosts is to never let them mass in the first place -_-

easier said than done but drops are the most effective counter to swarm hosts build. I am currently using this 2 base SH build against toss and at times terran and zerg and its extremely effective on most maps and i get crazy efficiency off 2 bases because of my constant pressure with SH with mass queen, to hydras then eventually to vipers. But dealing with drops is the hardest part as with the macro i wont have many units to spare and my army is extremely immobile.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
I feel as if a mass army of Swarm Hosts is inefficient especially because the fact that your army is too immobile as you said. I feel that having mass muta ling is the most effective army composition in the meta right now; however, dumping ~500 gas into Swarm Hosts may be an extremely effective usage of gas in order to lay siege to enemy expansions while you're fighting with muta ling.
 

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
Guys, i am talking 2vs2 here, i dont think this is OP in 1vs1 but in 2vs2 it wins by a rockslide.
Maybe i didnt really make that clear...
 

Slapshot136

Divide et impera
Guys, i am talking 2vs2 here, i dont think this is OP in 1vs1 but in 2vs2 it wins by a rockslide.
Maybe i didnt really make that clear...
you explained that it requires one ally to pool resources to the other - which is inherently unbalanced already, however, the other team can also do the same (effectively making it a 1v1)
 

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
Wow, looking back at this, I knew the SH was garbage 2 years ago. I am so much smarter then blizzard.
Oh, and smarter then all of you, by the way.
 
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