Swarm Hosts op?

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
Hi guys.
First thing first; i dont own HotS and I didnt play WoL for like a month now, but i am still watching the pros.

I have seen several games recently and it just seemed like swarm hosts are pretty darn powerful.
But my main concern is not the 1v1, its probably going to sort out there, but the 2v2, 3v3, etc.
In those match ups swarm hosts seem to be incredibly overpowered.
If, in a 2v2, one player goes for pure swarm host and gets covered by his ally there is nothing the other team can do exept for a base race or very sneaky play.

I was thinking about the following:
How would it be if the locust of the swarm host would die if the swarm host dies or if it gets unburrowed. Similar to how the interceptors of the carrier die.
I think that would make them a little bit more risky, because right now, the risk is pretty low for the high reward.
Zerg can just move a bunch of swarm hosts close to an expansion, burrow, unburrow and run away. The locusts will destroy the expansion or weaken the enemies army without the chance for punishment.

What do you think?
 

Slapshot136

Divide et impera
air + mobility counters them - as far as 2v2 games, it's a lot harder to balance, but I still don't think that they are OP - they cost 200/100, and it takes ~4 marines to take down one swarm host (100 gas difference) - I would expect 2 zealots to be able to do the same, and stalkers can kite around the swarm hosts (sacrifice a couple of buildings if necessary, and wipe out the swarm hosts) , vs zerg, lings can easily run around the locusts and snipe the swarm hosts themselves
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
No. Swarm Hosts can get shut down easily with detection and air. Protoss have also Phoenix (lifting them unburrows them). Terran can still fairly easily harass and shut down Zerg as long as the drop skill and macro skill is there. Also Hellbats. Zerg can counter Swarm Hosts with either Swarm Hosts of their own or Mutas.
 

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
Problem in 2v2 is that zerg gets aroun 20 swarm hosts (getting fed with gas from ally) and the ally gets some meat to buffer (zealot + stalker) / (Marine + Marauder + Medivac) and from there it goes downhill for the enemy team.

Watch MLG pro invite team challenge where Drewbie (T) and Vibe (Z) beat almost every opponent with this strategie unless the enemy goes for a base race. With the base race its hard to tell who is going to win. It depends on the map i guess.
 

Slapshot136

Divide et impera
Problem in 2v2 is that zerg gets aroun 20 swarm hosts (getting fed with gas from ally) and the ally gets some meat to buffer (zealot + stalker) / (Marine + Marauder + Medivac) and from there it goes downhill for the enemy team.
2v2 with an ally pooling another is already fairly OP.. for example, here is a high-level game where that occurs and one player masses pheonix

now are you going to say that mass pheonix is OP?
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
Swarm hosts have pretty amazing timings versus protoss in 1v1. I am not completely sure about 2v2. The key to dealing with them 1v1 is to, well, scour and prerpare for it. If the swarm hosts are out and you haven't scouted them chances are that you won't survive the attack.
 

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
I think my general problem with the swarm host is the scalability.
A few are easy to overcome, but with each other swarm host you get, their usefulness rises exponentially.
 

Slapshot136

Divide et impera
I think my general problem with the swarm host is the scalability.
A few are easy to overcome, but with each other swarm host you get, their usefulness rises exponentially.
but at some point the other person would also get a critical mass of siege tanks/collosi/etc.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
I'd argue that Siege Tanks and Colossi would be out faster than Swarm Hosts in critical masses... Think about it, Hive Tech is required for Swarm Hosts. Swarm Hosts are T3 whereas Siege Tanks are T2(.5) and Colossi are T2.5-3. You have to basically skimp on everything in order to get Hive fast enough to have some Swarm Hosts.
 

Slapshot136

Divide et impera
swarm hosts are T2.5, and colossi are T3 - I agree with sevion, siege tanks/collosi would be faster to get, although a minor bit of repairs/shield micro/high ground advantage may be needed until that critical mass is reached
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
Honestly, an easy way to beat Swarm Hosts is to lift them with your Phoenix. I assume you'll have an observer out. If you lift burrowed Swarm Hosts, they don't burrow after the spell ends. They stay above ground.
 

Nigerianrulz

suga suga how'd you get so fly?
The way to beat mass swarm hosts is to never let them mass in the first place -_-

easier said than done but drops are the most effective counter to swarm hosts build. I am currently using this 2 base SH build against toss and at times terran and zerg and its extremely effective on most maps and i get crazy efficiency off 2 bases because of my constant pressure with SH with mass queen, to hydras then eventually to vipers. But dealing with drops is the hardest part as with the macro i wont have many units to spare and my army is extremely immobile.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
I feel as if a mass army of Swarm Hosts is inefficient especially because the fact that your army is too immobile as you said. I feel that having mass muta ling is the most effective army composition in the meta right now; however, dumping ~500 gas into Swarm Hosts may be an extremely effective usage of gas in order to lay siege to enemy expansions while you're fighting with muta ling.
 

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
Guys, i am talking 2vs2 here, i dont think this is OP in 1vs1 but in 2vs2 it wins by a rockslide.
Maybe i didnt really make that clear...
 

Slapshot136

Divide et impera
Guys, i am talking 2vs2 here, i dont think this is OP in 1vs1 but in 2vs2 it wins by a rockslide.
Maybe i didnt really make that clear...
you explained that it requires one ally to pool resources to the other - which is inherently unbalanced already, however, the other team can also do the same (effectively making it a 1v1)
 

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
Wow, looking back at this, I knew the SH was garbage 2 years ago. I am so much smarter then blizzard.
Oh, and smarter then all of you, by the way.
 
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • The Helper The Helper:
    seeing some weird stuff doing some moves to the new Weird News forum please see the bathroom admins
  • The Helper The Helper:
    :) it is weird
  • The Helper The Helper:
    btw it was just lag the weirdness is gone
  • Wizard Wizard:
    I checked!
    +1
  • Blackveiled Blackveiled:
    How is everyone doing?
  • Wizard Wizard:
    Alright!
  • The Helper The Helper:
    Doing well thanks!
  • The Helper The Helper:
    Tom Mai check out the post I just found you made in 2006, from an apparent banned account, I do not remember that happening, the post is in the General Discussion Hall of Fame about record breakers
  • Blackveiled Blackveiled:
    Lmao thats somethin right there.
  • tom_mai78101 tom_mai78101:
    How far back were you looking at?
  • tom_mai78101 tom_mai78101:
    But yes, that was me.
  • The Helper The Helper:
    Do you think I am looking back in the forums for this stuff? LOL, no, I find these posts in the Members Online section or the stats - all these old posts I am bumping and moving around are what people are actually looking at on the website
  • tom_mai78101 tom_mai78101:
    Interesting.
  • The Helper The Helper:
    hey Tom your Burrito news is going viral by TheHelper.net standards LOL
  • The Helper The Helper:
    looks like The Burrito has been shared to facebook lol I am getting the facebook bots in now
  • The Helper The Helper:
    I am going to do one more News Forum like the Weird News but this one is Science News for all the cool science and technology articles in the Archive
  • tom_mai78101 tom_mai78101:
    Hmm, do I need to start posting some of the Science and Technology news to this new section in the future?
  • tom_mai78101 tom_mai78101:
    Or do we need to move the news to their respective sections once the threads are old enough, read to be put into the News Archive?
  • The Helper The Helper:
    The 2nd thing
  • The Helper The Helper:
    I have been moving stuff from the current Headline news like a year old and stuff over when I see it in the logs or members online but mostly I have been moving stuff from the Archives
  • The Helper The Helper:
    It is possible to automate it so that instead of moving to Archive if it has the Science, technology or sci tech tag that it gets archived there instead. I am considering a new Weird News Tag
  • tom_mai78101 tom_mai78101:
    Please do. I'll try to tag the news appropriately when I get the chance.
  • The Helper The Helper:
    The new Discourse forum software we are moving to next does alot with the tags and also hashtags
  • The Helper The Helper:
    OK I found the source of your burrito post stuff it is from Reddit and possibly a facebook post too but definitely reddit

    Members online

    No members online now.

    Affiliates

    Hive Workshop NUON Dome World Editor Tutorials

    Network Sponsors

    Apex Steel Pipe - Buys and sells Steel Pipe.
    Top