Seannny
Why GUI when you can Jass?
- Reaction score
- 46
Its the Mythbusters of World Editor!
Why This Thread?
I created this thread because I know a lot of people, including myself Always ask questions here stating things like:
"Will This really crash without this here?"
Or
"Will leaking really make my map do This?"
What this thread is dedicated to do is to have YOU ask The Myths, and have anyone else who knows the answer tell you the answer. That person will obviously need to be confirmed by someone else, or show proof. The answer should be logical explaining Why it happens!
To start it off there are a few myths I've heard and asked myself, that I have the answer too.
The Myths
MYTH: Do I need to remove all leaks? If I don't, do you REALLY need to restart warcraft 3 to completely refresh the memory?
Results: Yes! You should always remove your leaks! And NO! you DON'T have to restart!
Well, what a leak is, is a few bits of memory that escape from the game when a trigger, or whatever causes the leak, happens. This memory can never be recovered and just sits there, gathering dust and generating lag. If you've ever been in a game where it started smooth, but ended laggy, and nothing in the game should have made it so laggy (Aka Mass troops) it's probably because it leaks. Why don't you need to restart? well you know that Black screen you get after you leave a game.. Sometimes you get sent back to the chat rooms quickly.. Sometimes it takes forever- This is because that black screen is where the game is clearing all the ram, and thus clearing the memory leaks.
Strilanc says:even if warcraft 3 fails to clean up after itslelf (eg. it crashes or just misses some), the operating system will deallocate all memory allocated to wc3.
CONFIRMED!: This is all True. Though failure to Clean itself up wont happen with simple leaks.
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MYTH: A very common myth, Triggers in GUI are difficult to learn and cant be learned within a few days.
Results: Yes i would classify this as a myth, and have it be not true, simply because they are not. And no im not saying that because I know a bit of jass, and programming is natural to me. Im saying it because all GUI is, Is logic. if you look at every trigger, every event, condition, and action, its all very logical.. Unit enters region, kill triggering unit. It makes sense if you just think about it. All it takes is a little bit of focusing and practice, and your off!
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MYTH: If I have a spell book with passive spells in it, then i give it to a unit, but i hide the spell book, are the spells still active?
Results: I'm still not 100% sure on this But yes I believe they are. I know for a fact auras will indeed stay on a unit if you have them in a hidden spell book. Passive abilities such as Bash are yet to be confirmed. However i have a strong feeling they will affect your unit.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MYTH: Is it true that if i have multiple spells with the same Spell Id, They will bug up and not work?
Results: Well.. yes and No..
You see Spell ids work like this. every spell is given a special ID, so that it can be unique to the other spells that the caster has. That way the system doesn't mix up the spells that a unit is casting. So if you have two spells with the same ID on one unit, yes it will get screwed up. However, if you have 2 units and 2 spells with the same ID, one spell on each unit, the spell will NOT mess up. because the game is only keeping track of the spells being cast on a single unit. Therefore if you have 2 channel id based spells on 2 units, those spells both will work, however if they were put on one unit, they would most likely break. Also, it is indeed possible to change the order ID of spells like Channel, SpellBook, or Charge gold and lumber.
To go deeper into detail, The spell ID system blizzard created is somewhat goofy, and could have been simplified further.
Confirmation!: This is 100% True!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MYTH: Adding waits into a spell's Trigger will make it NOT MUI
Results: This is Mostly True, meaning there are exceptions, however is the majority of cases yes, a trigger loses its ability to become MUI if you add a wait, This is because the trigger cannot hold multiple instances of itself. So essentially every time the trigger runs, it overwrites itself, whether the previous run was finished or not.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MYTH: The number you set an array to in the variable editor, is as high as that array allows.
Results: This is FALSE. No matter what you set the array size to, it will always be able to hold up to the max. Its as simple as that. This includes 0.
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MYTH: Blizzard cliffs are bad and should NEVER be used!
Results: This is false! Yet again another myth busted, Now why is this false? Because blizzard cliffs, though ugly, are useful! They are a vision blocker, and obstacle, a wall if used with the proper tile set, Blizzard cliffs if anything are Good! Its the misuse of them that is bad, You see tons of random cliffs looks ugly, but is useful in certain maps. tag maps, Td's, Mauls, Etc. Sometimes they are needed because using raise and lower terrain will just take so much extra work, for a look at sometimes just isn't what you wanted.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Myth: Globals make everything non-MUI.
Result: False.
This is definitely untrue! Globals do not make everything Non-MUI! Essentially a global is a the only variable type you use in GUI. The other variable is a local, which makes mui very easy. Learn about Locals and Global Differences in some other guides, such as Introduction to Jass ones. Anywho, Global variables dont instantly take away the MUI! infact Globals can make plenty things MUI, it is just a little bit more work. What mainly ruins MUI are Waits and some forms of loops.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Myth: Unit names can indeed be changed through triggers
Results: Ehh, not so much. Unfortunetly the straight answer is they just cant.
-Thanks TheDamien!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Myth: Waits are consistant.
Results:They are not, (thanks to numerous Complaints about this one to get the real facts!) Waits may be close enough for times above 1 second to really not matter, but anything below a second starts to get iffy. The reason it matters is because if your dealing with something you need that low, it will be noticable if it ISNT that low.
Here is a screenshot to prove it. I made a wait .01 timer and added .01 to a real. I did a wait .01, .1, 1, 0, and -.1 and this is what I got.
(Doubled for each one, first one is the real variable itself and the second one is the Absolute).
-Thanks TheCrystal!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Myth: Chaos damage ignores armor
Results:
Chaos damage ignores armor TYPE, and deals 100% to all TYPES. Its damage is still lowered by # of armor and other effects that reduce physical damage. This only is true when gameplay constants that include somehow changing this has not been modified!
Thanks Weyrling! That is a very common misunderstanding.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Myth the old wives' tale. the minimum wait is 0.27 seconds.
Results
Load of rubbish.
You can go smaller for a reason =)
Thanks TheChedder! Thats a goofy myth =P
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Myth: You can go higher than 522 movement speed using triggers/ items. OR editing the game play constants up to a max of 800.
Results: Unfortunately this is false. Movement speed is stuck at 522, anything else just doesn't affect the unit. The only way to reach a higher movement speed is by using a slide-like trigger, which can be done using a similar trigger to maze ice sliding triggers
Thanks Chedder and Romek for this one!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Myth: Jass is the solution to world hunger (I don't remember who said this, it was said when someone was thinking that Jass could do EVERYTHING)
Results: No.. It's much less limited than GUI, but a lot of things it can do can be done in GUI.
Thanks romek!
The Notes, and Change Log
That's all for now, i will add more of my own later, and any noteworthy myths YOU bust or ask will be added to the first and second posts!
Remember, there's always room to learn more. :thup:
Change 3!: Major changes! added a ton of new myths! and why not, i added a poll due to a user request =) no harm it can do right? Also trying out how a new system of seperating myths, just to organize better. Easier on the eyes too
Changes 2: Added 2 new myths, a few confirmations
Changes: Minimal Grammatical Fixes.
Why This Thread?
I created this thread because I know a lot of people, including myself Always ask questions here stating things like:
"Will This really crash without this here?"
Or
"Will leaking really make my map do This?"
What this thread is dedicated to do is to have YOU ask The Myths, and have anyone else who knows the answer tell you the answer. That person will obviously need to be confirmed by someone else, or show proof. The answer should be logical explaining Why it happens!
To start it off there are a few myths I've heard and asked myself, that I have the answer too.
The Myths
MYTH: Do I need to remove all leaks? If I don't, do you REALLY need to restart warcraft 3 to completely refresh the memory?
Results: Yes! You should always remove your leaks! And NO! you DON'T have to restart!
Well, what a leak is, is a few bits of memory that escape from the game when a trigger, or whatever causes the leak, happens. This memory can never be recovered and just sits there, gathering dust and generating lag. If you've ever been in a game where it started smooth, but ended laggy, and nothing in the game should have made it so laggy (Aka Mass troops) it's probably because it leaks. Why don't you need to restart? well you know that Black screen you get after you leave a game.. Sometimes you get sent back to the chat rooms quickly.. Sometimes it takes forever- This is because that black screen is where the game is clearing all the ram, and thus clearing the memory leaks.
Strilanc says:even if warcraft 3 fails to clean up after itslelf (eg. it crashes or just misses some), the operating system will deallocate all memory allocated to wc3.
CONFIRMED!: This is all True. Though failure to Clean itself up wont happen with simple leaks.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MYTH: A very common myth, Triggers in GUI are difficult to learn and cant be learned within a few days.
Results: Yes i would classify this as a myth, and have it be not true, simply because they are not. And no im not saying that because I know a bit of jass, and programming is natural to me. Im saying it because all GUI is, Is logic. if you look at every trigger, every event, condition, and action, its all very logical.. Unit enters region, kill triggering unit. It makes sense if you just think about it. All it takes is a little bit of focusing and practice, and your off!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MYTH: If I have a spell book with passive spells in it, then i give it to a unit, but i hide the spell book, are the spells still active?
Results: I'm still not 100% sure on this But yes I believe they are. I know for a fact auras will indeed stay on a unit if you have them in a hidden spell book. Passive abilities such as Bash are yet to be confirmed. However i have a strong feeling they will affect your unit.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MYTH: Is it true that if i have multiple spells with the same Spell Id, They will bug up and not work?
Results: Well.. yes and No..
You see Spell ids work like this. every spell is given a special ID, so that it can be unique to the other spells that the caster has. That way the system doesn't mix up the spells that a unit is casting. So if you have two spells with the same ID on one unit, yes it will get screwed up. However, if you have 2 units and 2 spells with the same ID, one spell on each unit, the spell will NOT mess up. because the game is only keeping track of the spells being cast on a single unit. Therefore if you have 2 channel id based spells on 2 units, those spells both will work, however if they were put on one unit, they would most likely break. Also, it is indeed possible to change the order ID of spells like Channel, SpellBook, or Charge gold and lumber.
To go deeper into detail, The spell ID system blizzard created is somewhat goofy, and could have been simplified further.
Confirmation!: This is 100% True!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MYTH: Adding waits into a spell's Trigger will make it NOT MUI
Results: This is Mostly True, meaning there are exceptions, however is the majority of cases yes, a trigger loses its ability to become MUI if you add a wait, This is because the trigger cannot hold multiple instances of itself. So essentially every time the trigger runs, it overwrites itself, whether the previous run was finished or not.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MYTH: The number you set an array to in the variable editor, is as high as that array allows.
Results: This is FALSE. No matter what you set the array size to, it will always be able to hold up to the max. Its as simple as that.
This includes 0.------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MYTH: Blizzard cliffs are bad and should NEVER be used!
Results: This is false! Yet again another myth busted, Now why is this false? Because blizzard cliffs, though ugly, are useful! They are a vision blocker, and obstacle, a wall if used with the proper tile set, Blizzard cliffs if anything are Good! Its the misuse of them that is bad, You see tons of random cliffs looks ugly, but is useful in certain maps. tag maps, Td's, Mauls, Etc. Sometimes they are needed because using raise and lower terrain will just take so much extra work, for a look at sometimes just isn't what you wanted.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Myth: Globals make everything non-MUI.
Result: False.
This is definitely untrue! Globals do not make everything Non-MUI! Essentially a global is a the only variable type you use in GUI. The other variable is a local, which makes mui very easy. Learn about Locals and Global Differences in some other guides, such as Introduction to Jass ones. Anywho, Global variables dont instantly take away the MUI! infact Globals can make plenty things MUI, it is just a little bit more work. What mainly ruins MUI are Waits and some forms of loops.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Myth: Unit names can indeed be changed through triggers
Results: Ehh, not so much. Unfortunetly the straight answer is they just cant.
-Thanks TheDamien!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Myth: Waits are consistant.
Results:They are not, (thanks to numerous Complaints about this one to get the real facts!) Waits may be close enough for times above 1 second to really not matter, but anything below a second starts to get iffy. The reason it matters is because if your dealing with something you need that low, it will be noticable if it ISNT that low.
Here is a screenshot to prove it. I made a wait .01 timer and added .01 to a real. I did a wait .01, .1, 1, 0, and -.1 and this is what I got.
(Doubled for each one, first one is the real variable itself and the second one is the Absolute).
-Thanks TheCrystal!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Myth: Chaos damage ignores armor
Results:
Chaos damage ignores armor TYPE, and deals 100% to all TYPES. Its damage is still lowered by # of armor and other effects that reduce physical damage. This only is true when gameplay constants that include somehow changing this has not been modified!
Thanks Weyrling! That is a very common misunderstanding.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Myth the old wives' tale. the minimum wait is 0.27 seconds.
Results
Load of rubbish.
You can go smaller for a reason =)
Thanks TheChedder! Thats a goofy myth =P
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Myth: You can go higher than 522 movement speed using triggers/ items. OR editing the game play constants up to a max of 800.
Results: Unfortunately this is false. Movement speed is stuck at 522, anything else just doesn't affect the unit. The only way to reach a higher movement speed is by using a slide-like trigger, which can be done using a similar trigger to maze ice sliding triggers
Thanks Chedder and Romek for this one!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Myth: Jass is the solution to world hunger (I don't remember who said this, it was said when someone was thinking that Jass could do EVERYTHING)
Results: No.. It's much less limited than GUI, but a lot of things it can do can be done in GUI.
Thanks romek!
The Notes, and Change Log
That's all for now, i will add more of my own later, and any noteworthy myths YOU bust or ask will be added to the first and second posts!
Remember, there's always room to learn more. :thup:
Change 3!: Major changes! added a ton of new myths! and why not, i added a poll due to a user request =) no harm it can do right? Also trying out how a new system of seperating myths, just to organize better. Easier on the eyes too
Changes 2: Added 2 new myths, a few confirmations
Changes: Minimal Grammatical Fixes.
