Balance patch coming - around "middle of September"

[Viikuna]

They have been working on the game for 6+ years, companies like EA spend 1, maybe 2 years on a game then release it. And you're saying Blizzard rushed it?

A game is lot more than just race designs and unit concepts.
Even if they really had developed game for 6+ years, ( which would just make it even bigger fail really ) they would had simply focused on totally wrong aspects of the game.

You see that Blizzard had loads of quite new and weird ideas for sc2 when they announced it. Not many of those ideas made it to the game.

They simply couldnt get that shit working, and marketting guys told development guys that their time is up, and thats why we got some really lame and simple stuff that was easier to balance.

Yes they rushed it.

 

[Bloodcount]

The infestor is sneaky... although you must pay a lot to use it and it has no attack of it's own....

Overall imo after heart of the swarm the zerg will finally be what they should be.

 

[Vestras]

Ehm... you're just not using the units right. There are infestors, nydus worms, doomdrops, burrowed roaches, etc. Be creative. If that's boring, go queen/hatchery rush.

 

[Lyerae]

They have been working on the game for 6+ years, companies like EA spend 1, maybe 2 years on a game then release it. And you're saying Blizzard rushed it?

Your saying EA makes quality games?

 

[Cornface]

Your saying EA makes quality games?

I think he says the opposite.
Anyway, I would like to add a few cents. The game is new, and no wonder people are having a hard time. A lot of moaning about inbalances etc, but the longer this game exists, the more strategies and counters comes up, and the issue solves itself.

I am not saying the game is completely balanced, but honestly, moaning this early on and all the people trying to say there is some kind of massive inbalances come on? Also, if you're like a Gold player complaining about game inbalances, then there is more problem with your game than the game mechanics/synergy/fundementals.

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

I am not saying the game is completely balanced, but honestly, moaning this early on and all the people trying to say there is some kind of massive inbalances come on? Also, if you're like a Gold player complaining about game inbalances, then there is more problem with your game than the game mechanics/synergy/fundementals.

how can YOU counter a marine marauder rush as zerg using tier one units?



honestly though serious question

the zealot thing is going to be annoying, especially with 6-pool zerg rushes. i can barely manage to keep my thing alive as it is when im toss

 

[Cornface]

how can YOU counter a marine marauder rush as zerg using tier one units?



honestly though serious question

the zealot thing is going to be annoying, especially with 6-pool zerg rushes. i can barely manage to keep my thing alive as it is when im toss

Well, you can't really counter marine and marauder rush as zerg using only lings, but then again, if you only got lings when he got his massive bio ball, you're doing something wrong.

Also, against 6-poolers. It is counterable, first off, if you suspect him to 6-pool (Very small map, you faced him before, etc) You scout early. Wall off early = Win.
Just do anything you can to survive after you figured he is 6-pooling and you will win, if you manage to hold off his initial attacks.
Also, 6-pooling is only really efficient on small maps, since if you do actually scout him early, the time between his six-pool and you reacting and you to react should be well enough for you to be able to hold off his attack without any trouble.

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

Well, you can't really counter marine and marauder rush as zerg using only lings, but then again, if you only got lings when he got his massive bio ball, you're doing something wrong.

MnM are both tier one, so to match him all i can get is roaches n lings at that point, then when i get tier 2 hydras he gets freakin siege tanks, and by the time id get brood/ultras hes got thors and bcruisers (in which case he wins)

 

[punwisp]

Your saying EA makes quality games?

None of EAs RTS games were good, all were rushed and got bad ratings, only a couple got a lot higher ratings after a zillion patches like C&C 3. C&C 4 used to have like a 3, now its a 7

 

[celerisk]

We have a release date: September 21.

Though whether that's actually going to help is certainly open to debate.


GSL is currently near the end of Ro32.
And, well, there only were 16 Zerg to begin with in Ro64, which got decimated to 6 for Ro32 and at most 3 will reach Ro16 where I predict they'll go extinct.

I've actually watched all of the games, and, well, the problem isn't that stimmed Marauders with extra shells are too strong, or that 3 Colossus with 20 Stalkers are "totally unstoppable" or that 30 Marines with 5 Thors end games.

The actual problem, as I see it, is economy.
Zerg have a really hard time in getting started.
Killing a Drone early has a much larger impact than losing an SCV or a probe.
If Terran or Protoss lose a worker, they'll simply rebuilt it, done.
For Zerg though it also means that there's now one less larva to produce troops.
And, early game, that's huge.
Zerg without a Queen is gg right from the start.
Zerg without a seriously fast expansion is gg.
You don't have the resources to get stuff out and done.
Mules and chrono boost are amazing abilities. Zerg do not have that. They have to decide between getting a worker, a structure or perhaps some Zerglings.

Once you make it, hopefully in good shape, to mid-game, Zerg get better. Seriously better. Until then... well, there's not much of a swarm.
And, as usual, and as expected, cost for cost Zerg are weaker.
Random example: a Thor is 300 / 200. For Zerg that means 2 Mutalisks and 4 Zerglings for the same cost.
All in all, Zerg have a slow start but, at the same time, they really need superior economy to have a chance to win.
Good luck.



When was the last time you heard a Terran complain about losing a Supply Depot?
When do they actually lose one? OK, the early one that blocks the ramp perhaps, but beyond that?

When was the last time you heard a Protoss complain about losing a Pylon?
Proximity Pylons are obvious targets, but you already know that when placing one, so it's expected for them to go down eventually.
In your base? At times you lose the one single Pylon that powers 3 Gateways... but that's also 1. expected and 2. bad base design

On the other hand though, we have... "YEAH! OVERLORD! DIE!DIE!DIE!" throughout the entire game.
What has that poor guy ever done to you? What? Just what?
...

 

[Vestras]

Zerg without a seriously fast expansion is gg unless you're korean.

Fix'd.

 

[Bloodcount]

.

>or that 3 Colossus with 20 Stalkers are "totally unstoppable"

Weeeeellll as much as I'd like to agree, I disagree... even though you must be really good, upon seeing a collosi enter the field and some stalkers invest like hell in speeds or cracks (if possible) spend most of your gas on corruptors and (if you havent) start spreading the creep asap. This means atleast 3 tumors, right from the start. if you destroy the collosi use the speeds/cracks to deal with the stalkers.

Still with 20+ stalkers, chances are that your corruptors will die before dealing dmg to the collosi... so yeah, I will have to agree.

>Zerg without a seriously fast expansion is gg.
Not if your opponent is going for early game aggression. Then you need to delay it until you have an army and creep big enough to protect it, but in the long run without an expo you should just leave, it is not worth to play. Terrans can do fine without one, even protoss can be fine with expanding mid game.

>All in all, Zerg have a slow start but, at the same time, they really need superior economy to have a chance to win.

QFT

>Good luck.

Thank you kindly good sir.

>On the other hand though, we have... "YEAH! OVERLORD! DIE!DIE!DIE!" throughout the entire game.

Well... when you get the "speed" upgrade, your overlords atleast won't die from single scouting marine/stalker... Sad isn't it ?

>What has that poor guy ever done to you? What? Just what?

That is just the thing, what CAN an overlord do ? Exept poop out creep, that you get from creep tumors anyway (And I swear the first one who sais doom drops should answer with the 2 upgrades you need before being able to drop anything, their cost, research time and wich units are actually worth dropping ? )

He is just a target to muthas/corruptors/vikings/ voids/phoenixes... I mean, srsly, they will die, they can do NOTHING to protect themselves... stackling them in one place like an idiot will help you until your opponent desides to have sex with your economy, makes a few air units and slaughters them... or nukes them, or psi storms them... or just sends some muthas to feed on them.

I agree- zerg economy sucks. We lack the gifts that the toss and terran have. The mule is a monster (has the power of 6 workers) the scan is more then imba and the extra supply depots are just... you know I am pretty sure that this is how they were created: "You know, the mule has the power of 6 workers right ? Hm... the scan is also imba.. the third spell must be just as imba... AHA! The supply block.. sometimes when you have too many minerals from the mules you need more supply right ? Well, why not give them an instant suply bonus, at the cost of a mule ? Yeah, that is right!"

The crono boost is not that directly OP, because well, it doesn't directly give you an economical bonus... sure, being able to make 2 workers for the time of 1 is cool, but it's true potential comes when you can speed up not just units but upgrades as well....

what do zerg have in terms of economy ? More larva ? sure... that you CAN'T spam, unlike the chrono boost or mules...

 

[Viikuna]

Of course they can just tune some numbers and make zerg more viable and easy to play, but it still doesnt change the fact that zerg is really badly designed and lacks many required tool to make it a diverse and interesting race.

And its really sad, because zerg is the coolest race concept of these 3, IMO.

I used to like terran back in the Broodwar, but then those sorry-fat-ass-bitch-developers of Blizzard made them FAT!

( Im not talking about balance here, btw )

They are all just fat. I know that most of americans are fat, but it doesnt make it any better to punish the whole starcraft community of it.

But seriously, marines with shields? Some lame 125 hp infantary units? Some stupid looking mech robot that in reality is just a SUPER-SIZE version of scv?

They are all fat, for fucks sake!

This together with the fact that zerg just has too many very badly designed units to replace old stuff that actually was cooler than this new stuff is just terrible.
Blizzard surely had some new interesting ideas, but when they couldnt get those working, they just gave us some lame new shit just for sake of giving something new.

And that sucks. Id much rather had cool stuff from Broodwar, than something new but lame.

I do like new creep mechanics though. And banelings. And ultra cleave attack. And queen concept. ( Although its badly executed currently )
And worms. Worms are fuckking awesome, even though they too have some really bad problems now.

But thats not enough. Not in million years.




Protoss looks pretty neat, though.
But then again, I cant really tell because I dont even play them. I just got too much pwned by zealot+dragoon armies in BW, to ever enjoy playing Protoss again.

Anyways, this post hopefully expresses my disappointment well enough.
I am disappointed.

 

[Sevion]

The fact of the matter is that in terms of strength, Terran wins hands-down. Protoss is middle of the fence, but can topple Terran if the Protoss player is good and the Terran is suckish. Zerg is the underdog that can only beat Terran if the Terran player doesn't wall and the Zerg needs to expo to get superior economy.

 

[Viikuna]

Wall is not the problem, at least IMO.

It all comes down to whether you can buy yourself enough time to expand and take economical advantage.

Terran who just stays behind his wall, gathering his army is not too hard to beat, if yuo are fast enough to take few bases and pump out troops to rape his army when it comes out.

But if terran constantly expands and harrases you, it is damn hard to stop his final push when it comes.

Zerg units simply are not cost efficient enough to win in battle like that.

 

[Sevion]

Well the thing is, Terran Mech completely tears apart ALL Zerg units. Mutas? Thors. Lings? Hellions/Siege Tanks. In any case scenario, (all) Zerg gets hard countered by 3-4 units from Terran.

 

[Viikuna]

Thats indeed true. Zerg really has nothing to fight a strong unit combination ball like that.

If its bio and enemy accidentally walks to your baneling minefield, you can kill it, but otherwise you just get pwnt.

Zerg just needs something like dark swarm to prevent/decerease the effect of enemy firepower, so lings and ultras can actually get in range or hydras can actually stay alive under it.

And maybe some unit ball killer ability, like plague or something like that. Plague would be damn cool to weaken those thors so mutas can actually snipe them off.

 

[Bloodcount]

>And maybe some unit ball killer ability, like plague or something like that. Plague would be damn cool to weaken those thors so mutas can actually snipe them off.

Fungal growth.

Neural Parasite for the bigger units(like thors and tanks)

The way I see it, this was Blizzard's plan, BUT it is impossible to accomplish, simply because, well... infestors are slow, weak and expensive.

 

[Viikuna]

Fungal growth + banelings indeed works in theory. It just requires too much micro for a noob like me.

I always got my infestors sniped or banelings killed, so its not enough to take the ball out.

Also banelings kinda suck against mech.

 

[Bloodcount]

Trust me, in order for infestor+banes to work, you NEED to have an idiot for an opponent...