Banelings

Siretu

Starcraft 2 Editor Moderator
Staff member
Combining two of the best things in the word: [del]AI and luci..[/del] Explosions and green goo, I present to you:

Banelings

Banelings is a 4-player Free-for-all map taking place on a modified Metalopolis.

It's currently being developed by team Celesti(which is just a fancy way of saying me and Bloodcount)

There are three points of interest on the map. There are two tentacles(that act like control points) on the opposite sides of the map and there's also a huge nydus worm in the middle.

The goal is to be the first to gain 100 points. Points are gained by feeding the nydus worm in the middle by simply rolling your banelings into it.

However, you can't just roll them in there, you have to control at least one of the tentacles to be able to feed the nydus. If you control both of them, you'll earn extra point for each baneling you feed.

By killing the enemy banelings, you get minerals with which you can buy upgrades.

These upgrades can be applied to a bunch of banelings by your hatchery.

An upgraded baneling has a different effect when it explodes. It might explode into a psi storm or maybe it creates a ring of force field to block or trap enemy banelings.

To say that the map is easy to learn, but hard to master would be extremely true.

It's easy to just take your banelings(which spawn automatically, up to a cap) and go blow up your opponents' banelings but with better micro you can accomplish so much more. The skill roof is EXTREMELY high.

Now here's an introduction video with some gameplay:

[video=youtube;ltwZauQfFrk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltwZauQfFrk[/video]

The map is barely playable at the moment. We're planning to add more baneling effects(Currently 5) and some other upgrades that affect baneling stats, cap, spawning time and such.
 

UndeadDragon

Super Moderator
Staff member
It looks fun. Especially beings that banelings are one of the most fun (and annoying) units in the game :p
 

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
Looks pretty nice, who did the coding and object editor data management? a big thumbs up for the nice work there.

However, i have some questiones and suggestions to the balancing from what i saw.
1). Can you activate the abilities of the "special" banelings without them getting killed? Like, enable the force field banelings manually?
2). Can any banelings use burrow?
3). Are there any air units?
4). Overlords? With transport capabilities?
5). Suggestion: I would decrease the size of the force field walls slightly, it looks pretty big in comparison to the medium sized chokepoints around the map. I guess you can completely block about every position on the map with 2 - 4 of those force field banelings right now.
6). Any structures you can build? Creep tumors for vision, speed advantage?
6.b). Any stational defenses at your hatcheries?
7). Suggestion: Maybe you shouldnt quit the game if either player reaches 100 points but if one got at least 100 points and 10 points more then the other player. I wouldnt want to lose a game with 99 points to 100 just because that other guy was slightly faster then i.
8). Suggestion: Maybe metalopolis is not the best map for this. Because there are only 2 of these tentacles, 4 players and depending on the positions it might get tedious in a 1 vs 1 matchup or a 3 player game.
Just imagine how lame a 3 player game would be if one of them got a huge advantage of having a tentacle for himself which is very hard to attain for the other 2 players.

Thats it for now, just the spontanous questions/suggestions. Looks very good all in all. I might even play it if i ever see it on BNet or as FunOrNot.
 

GFreak45

I didnt slap you, i high 5'd your face.
it does sound like a ton of fun, but i would be worried about balance, with killing other banelings making it easier to kill other banelings all of a sudden one player would be exponentially stronger than the enemies
i would make it so that you get minerals from feeding the nidus worm and then you win by gettin g a trillion baneling kills
 

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
it does sound like a ton of fun, but i would be worried about balance, with killing other banelings making it easier to kill other banelings all of a sudden one player would be exponentially stronger than the enemies
i would make it so that you get minerals from feeding the nidus worm and then you win by gettin g a trillion baneling kills
I disagree, the concept of getting points by feeding the nydus is a very good choice in my opinion.
Points do not seem to give any benefits despite the chance of winning the game, that means every baneling you feed to the nydus to get a point is a loss for you in the game.
Every point means you are more and more behind in the actual fighting because you sacrifice your units for nothing of value, at least no value until you got a full 100 points.

In the other hand, fighting with banelings only doesnt even need "much" of balancing because the outcome of every battle is not determined by the numbers of banelings but by micro skills. very few banelings can easily kill a big number of other banelings, you need a little luck in what position you catch your enemy, a little bit of planning and strategy in what position you want to engage, and a little bit of micromanagement to move your banelings as it is needed.
This way you could get ahead very fast by microing like a god and still lose the next engagement critically by not microing at all.

If all you had was marines then it would get imbalanced exponentially with the number of units a player has, given the fact they all use banelings it will be quite balances throughout the entire game.
What might get broken are the upgrades and the "special" banelings, the difficulty of balancing lies within the cost-to-usefulnes ratio of those extra options.
 

Siretu

Starcraft 2 Editor Moderator
Staff member
Looks pretty nice, who did the coding and object editor data management? a big thumbs up for the nice work there.

However, i have some questiones and suggestions to the balancing from what i saw.
1). Can you activate the abilities of the "special" banelings without them getting killed? Like, enable the force field banelings manually?
2). Can any banelings use burrow?
3). Are there any air units?
4). Overlords? With transport capabilities?
5). Suggestion: I would decrease the size of the force field walls slightly, it looks pretty big in comparison to the medium sized chokepoints around the map. I guess you can completely block about every position on the map with 2 - 4 of those force field banelings right now.
6). Any structures you can build? Creep tumors for vision, speed advantage?
6.b). Any stational defenses at your hatcheries?
7). Suggestion: Maybe you shouldnt quit the game if either player reaches 100 points but if one got at least 100 points and 10 points more then the other player. I wouldnt want to lose a game with 99 points to 100 just because that other guy was slightly faster then i.
8). Suggestion: Maybe metalopolis is not the best map for this. Because there are only 2 of these tentacles, 4 players and depending on the positions it might get tedious in a 1 vs 1 matchup or a 3 player game.
Just imagine how lame a 3 player game would be if one of them got a huge advantage of having a tentacle for himself which is very hard to attain for the other 2 players.

Thats it for now, just the spontanous questions/suggestions. Looks very good all in all. I might even play it if i ever see it on BNet or as FunOrNot.
I did the coding and data work. I am pretty proud with it. Although there's more awesome UI stuff that isn't shown in the video. The baneling textures also looks awesome in my opinion.

1. Basically, your hatchery has AoE abilities. If you use that AoE ability, all banelings(currently even enemy ones) will become transformed into that kind of special baneling. You can explode a baneling manually, but if you want the special effect, the baneling has to die.
2. We've been discussing burrow and that it should affect the abilities somehow so they have a slightly different effect or something. They cant burrow atm though.
3. No
4. No, we discussed overlords when we were searching for a end goal other than: Blow up lots of banelings and watch the awesomesness.
5. Maybe, they're not that big. If I decrease it, it'll be harder to trap units inside though.
6. No
6b. Our current thought is that hatcheries should be invulnerable. The point is not to spawn camp your opponents' and kill their hatcheries.
7. Valid point, I am not sure really. It's more tense if it keeps as it is but I get your point.
8. Well, neither me nor bloodcount are good terrainers so just modifying metalopolis was an easy way out. Problem is, even if we don't use metalopolis, we will run into the same problem since the only place where we can put the tentacles so it's equally far away from all players is in the middle and that's where the nydus is.

It works out fine as long as you're not 3 players. 2 or 4 players should work fine.


@GFreak: Actually, it is quite the opposite. Kills = minerals but more minerals doesn't necessarily mean easier kills. Maybe when we get more upgrades, what you're saying will be more true but right now one player does not get exponentially stronger since all players get all upgrades pretty soon.
 

GFreak45

I didnt slap you, i high 5'd your face.
i guess that is true, banelings would rely more on skill and micro than massing op upgraded troops... i just used to play footman frenzy and games like that and theres a point where everyone just gave up
 

celerisk

When Zerg floweth, life is good
> It looks fun

Seems obvious. It features "sooooooooooooooo many Banelings" :p


What I didn't get though from the description or the video is what the tentacles are about?
Nothing? Just some structure to keep units around? Or how not having them (whatever that means) is "bad"?
 

GFreak45

I didnt slap you, i high 5'd your face.
> It looks fun

Seems obvious. It features "sooooooooooooooo many Banelings" :p


What I didn't get though from the description or the video is what the tentacles are about?
Nothing? Just some structure to keep units around? Or how not having them (whatever that means) is "bad"?
i believe they are control/advantage points, controlling them may mean the difference between winning/losing
 

Siretu

Starcraft 2 Editor Moderator
Staff member
What I didn't get though from the description or the video is what the tentacles are about?
Nothing? Just some structure to keep units around? Or how not having them (whatever that means) is "bad"?
The goal is to be the first to gain 100 points. Points are gained by feeding the nydus worm in the middle by simply rolling your banelings into it.

However, you can't just roll them in there, you have to control at least one of the tentacles to be able to feed the nydus. If you control both of them, you'll earn extra point for each baneling you feed.
I thought this was a proper explanation. Do you want me to elaborate?
 

celerisk

When Zerg floweth, life is good
Well, what does that "control" look like?
Like a Xel'Naga tower where you only have to be near it with no enemy?

Also, your video only ever had... let's say a hand full of Banelings.
Can we expect this to be the "final" army sizes?
After all, Banelings are one of the few units that get cooler the more you have :p
 

Siretu

Starcraft 2 Editor Moderator
Staff member
Well they work kind of like a xel'naga tower.

The end-game army should be a little bigger, but not much. The problem is that while a ton of banelings exploding into eachother is nice, the micro required to not just have a big mass suicide party increases exponentially with more banelings.

Basically, microing 10 banelings with different abilities is hard, microing 20 is very hard to do great, microing 100 is impossible.

Currently, your hatchery automatically creates banelings until you reach a specific amount. This amount is voted on in the beginning and you can pick 10, 20, 50 or 100 I think.

There will be upgrades to increase the cap.
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
Staff member
This is such a typical project of mine. Think up of a great idea, team up with a great mapper, make the project almost done, stop working on map. T_T


Like a Xel'Naga tower where you only have to be near it with no enemy?
Yes, exactly

Can we expect this to be the "final" army sizes?
After all, Banelings are one of the few units that get cooler the more you have
It hasn't been discussed. Testing will show. But no less than 30 at a time.


As for the concerns about the upgrades I have this covered. There will be a special (and unique ofc) system for the upgrades.
 

GFreak45

I didnt slap you, i high 5'd your face.
can we have a list of the types of banelings and maybe a test map?

and have you thought about a vortex baneling? creates a vortex at the explosion site that does not deal much damage but sucks all the banelings in a certain range into the middle for 4-5 seconds, like a stun that concentrates them together
 

Siretu

Starcraft 2 Editor Moderator
Staff member
I don't remember the specific names of the different banelings, but I'll just list the effects:

Force field circle, slow-motion field, fungal growth, psi storm, invulnerability(makes all allied banelings in area around it invulnerable) and healing field.

If you want, I could send you the map. This way you could try it out and see how things work. There's also some other features not visible in the video like the explosive meter.

Vortex would be a little overpowered. If you concentrates them together, you can kill a ton of banelings with just two banelings.
 

GFreak45

I didnt slap you, i high 5'd your face.
ya but thats why i would make it difficult to use, ie: you must cast for 5 seconds before it takes effect and you can have a max of 3, or maybe make it small so its easy to avoid

and what about a launcher baneling, its explosion deals damage to enemies and pushes banelings 500 range, so you could use it to strategicly launch a few banelings into groups of enemies with skill and practice, then an upgrade would be towhere you could load 3-4 and choose an area then when it explodes it launches all 4 to that exact area
 

Siretu

Starcraft 2 Editor Moderator
Staff member
ya but thats why i would make it difficult to use, ie: you must cast for 5 seconds before it takes effect and you can have a max of 3, or maybe make it small so its easy to avoid

and what about a launcher baneling, its explosion deals damage to enemies and pushes banelings 500 range, so you could use it to strategicly launch a few banelings into groups of enemies with skill and practice, then an upgrade would be towhere you could load 3-4 and choose an area then when it explodes it launches all 4 to that exact area
Those things would quickly make the game too complex. Since the game is currently so micro-intensive, we want to stick to the original baneling-dies-effect-happens concept without too many extra rules.
 
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