Evolution Discussion

[Rinpun]

religion

n 1: a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality" [syn: faith, religious belief] 2: institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him" [syn: faith]


Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

Well I guess you have your own interpretation.

Main Entry: su·per·nat·u·ral
Pronunciation: "sü-p&r-'na-ch&-r&l, -'nach-r&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Medieval Latin supernaturalis, from Latin super- + natura nature
1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
2 a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)
- supernatural noun
- su·per·nat·u·ral·ly /-'na-ch&r-&-lE, -'nach-r&-, -'na-ch&r-lE/ adverb
- su·per·nat·u·ral·ness noun


Source: Merriam-Webster

Please look at 1a or 2a. This is where the English language stinks. The Supernatural DOESN'T ALWAYS RELATE TO A MYSTERIOUS SPIRIT. Rather, the idea is to describe Supernatural as ANYTHING WE DON'T KNOW. Quite like the Greeks/Romans calling everyone around them "Barbarians" because they didn't know/didn't like their culture.

Aka, Evolution is a religion because it speaks of the supernatural. The world doesn't show traces of Evolution, and according to the other scientists it doesn't REALLY show evidence of a creator either. Henceforth, any argument I or anyone can put up supporting Christianity is a moral or emotional consideration. There is no "physical evidence" supporting Christianity.

A Christian scientist says there is mixed dirt proving the flood? I believe the flood happened, but this mixed dirt could have happened AT ANY TIME. Earthquakes happen, and other crap happens. According to the proving true Tectonics theory, the world is changing over time. Not drastically, but enough to move around dirt and such to make it look like a flood happened.

He also says that creatures show a "design" to them. Well this is where the turf goes wild. I'll keep it down to not my opinion and just say that the Evolutionists use this claim to say that they all evolved from one original species with one original design, so the design passed it all on. Of course, the Christians will also use this claim to say that it's a design of a Creator and as any creator does, he loves leaving patterns.

By the way, there's a theory going around now (I may or may not choose to believe it) that Mars and Earth #%&#ed one another somewhere along the way. Basically, massive disaster could've happened--breaking up Pangea, dinosaur death but humanity prevailing, flood, that sort of thing. This is supported by the apparent exact description of Mars moons in Gulliver's Travels, which was made hundreds of years ago, by an Irish guy who received info from other Irish whose ancestors were enthralled with Space and studied it. Chances are, humans were around at least to know that Mars and Earth were dramatically close to each other many years ago.

I'd also like to state that humans are like bacteria. No matter what disaster befalls us, we all seem to live while other animals go extinct. I think bacteria and humans have something in common--something that horses, dogs, elephants, and dinosaurs (I could go on) have in common. I mean, besides this planned disaster heading for us all, I seriously doubt any other tragedy could kill us all. I have reason to believe that if the above theory is true, then the humans would have lived through a terrible calamity to forget about dinosaurs, who became extinct, and live on as if smallpox came among their Europe.

Well now I am rambling and I hope I'm not popping into the argument of "Is Evolution/Christianity true?" I'm attempting to simply point out now either ideas of how the world was born, and these may or may not go along with any of the religions out there, or that Evolution's a religion.

 

[Cognitor]

Allow me to join if you will,
As you have defined some terms for clarity here are two which I think should clear things up further:
ev·o·lu·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (v-lshn, v-)
n.
1A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form. See Synonyms at development.
2The process of developing. Gradual development.
3Biology.
Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.

the·o·ry (th-r, thr)
n.
a working hypothesis that is considered probable based on experimental evidence or factual or conceptual analysis and is accepted as a basis for experimentation

If you don't want to read for lenght purposes, the next two paragraphs are my opinion of religion, skip them if you wish, the paragraphs after that are about evolution:
Religion:Now, to the good stuff: If you look at the history of religion, it's all about control; specifically, how to control people. The best way to control someone is through two ways: fear and belief. If you believe someone is truely their holy messanger from You Know Who, then he will have many followers to...do his bidding. Fear, being strictly interconected with most religions i.e the big three, is an even more effective way of control. Fear that you will go to hell if you do not follow the writing of this book, fear that your soul will be damned for eternity if you don't give a dollar to the church so it can build a million dollar glass cathedral to "look at the heavens." Going back in history, fear that if you do not die fighting for your country, You Know Who will damn your soul forever, hence, the existance of religion.
Now, I respect whatever religious beliefs others may have; hope and faith are some of the most vital principles we have, but I do not respect when those principles are blindly forced upon others in schools hidden under the word "creationism" being put forth as science even suggesting at the rediculous idea that the Grand Canyon was carved during the great flood (I kid you not, they are teaching this in some states now as a requirement). On The Bible now, those radicals who choose to interpret this book as a literal work are truely insane. These are a collection of stories written many years by many religious leaders intending to teach valuable moral lessons rather than literal events. It teachs sacrafice, hope, values, not that Noah really did take one of every animal and put it on a boat.
Evolution: As we see from the above definition, evolution is gradual change. Mutation is the basis of that change. Now, mutation is not directly related to
X-Men and radiation as most think. Mutation, many times, is random. A birth defect if you will. Those with a mutation that allows them an advantage over others in their species will allow them to spread their genes and the other one to eventually die out, hence new species over a period of howevermany billion years. As repetative as this sounds, it's all about "survival of the fittest." Those with the superior genes survive and spread their superior genes to their superior gened babies. It's that simple. These genes do not disapear but become inactive. Scientists a few years back were playing around with the genes of a chicken and activated an inactive gene; the result: a chicken with a tooth was hatched from an egg. Where did this gene come from? Chickens evolved from an animal that had teeth and who knows what else. But the beek allowed it to survive better than its toothed counterpart and thus one genepool outlived the other to create a superior genepool.
With humans, as any paleontologist will tell you, there is a pattern of changing bone stucture as you dig up sites in Africa. Genetic structures that are incredibly almost identical. For those who would ask, species that mutate don't necesarily have superior genes that allow them to survive better, but they are able to survive with these minor changes which is why apes or such "inferior" creatures exist today.
Im sure there are some points I haven't mentioned yet but as one last thing: Anyone who replys with "What about 'x', how did 'x' happen, it must be 'You Know Who'?" is adding illogical comments to table. You can't say that because something can't be explained, it must be You Know Who. That's not how science works - you must prove 'x' to be true, not, because 'y' is false, 'x' is true (for those who are confuse, pretend x = religion, and y = evolution or whatever you think has no scientific value.
Sorry for the length but I think it was necessary.

 

[Sp3tZn4z]

I personally dont believe in God, but i do believe Jesus existed but what they say about him in the bible is crap .And then Maria that came pregnant without even having intercourse <------- thats a joke right.The bible in my eyes is just a fairytale nothing more(sry if i offended religious people, it wus not my intention to do that).

Mostly i follow science because they have more proof about how life started.
They can actually give you bones in your hand.I believe in evolution, i believe people will once be like x-men (this is just an example, i dont mean they will actually start shooting laserbeams with there eyes).We already have people giving birth to the so called mermaid baby's. I dont believe they are sick, but i think thats just another step in evolution.

Religion:Now, to the good stuff: If you look at the history of religion, it's all about control; specifically, how to control people. The best way to control someone is through two ways: fear and belief

i dont agree with that. Know why i dont agree with that is because you cant control an animal and/or humans,they have emotions and instincts that is why you cant control them, and fear is not a way to control people, people listen but you cant control them. You can control a PC, a car , a thing without an instinct or emotions. Understand me ???

thats all i have to say actually.

 

[Sp3tZn4z]

Now one other thing its not because something that we have no proof of that it doesnt exist, that are mostly called myths.
Now lets take ghosts or the afterlife as a example who can say that it isnt there ???
Nobody has proof about those 2 things because you just cant know even if you had a nearly death experience, because you arent dead.
Maybe there is a hell and heaven, maybe there is a God that gave birth (like i like to say it) to the universe.

 

[Cognitor]

Just to respond to Sp3tZn4z's disagreement with the quote he took out: What is control? Control is the ability to direct the actions of another. The dificulty is that many times you cannot control the emotions or thoughts of others and thus arise revolutions and civil wars. But, if one could control someones thoughts and emotions through say...religion, wouldn't they follow you unquestionabley?
Also, aren't people controlled by fear all the time? Aren't you afraid that if you break a certain law, you will go to jail? and don't many middle eastern women truely believe they are inferior to men? and those who don't - aren't they afraid to be stoned in public if they disagree? Of course you can't totally control people because there is, crime. But the two-hundred-million other some-odd people in the U.S are indeed under control as far as the legal system is concerned.
I'd just like to jump back to evolution for a quick comment and for those fellow evolution believers, I have a theory about human evolution. Since (assuming we look at the conditions in the U.S today) most people are cared for, e.g health insurance, medicare, welfare and the "weak" or those who are able to live because of modern medicine, are able to pass down their genes, wouldn't that mean that human evolution has drastically slowed since it is no longer about "survival of the fittest" and passing down of superior genes? Just a thought, someone tell me if I'm completely wrong (if you know anything not involving the morality of the topic).

 

[Rinpun]

Im sure there are some points I haven't mentioned yet but as one last thing: Anyone who replys with "What about 'x', how did 'x' happen, it must be 'You Know Who'?" is adding illogical comments to table.

What is your concept of "logic"?

I'd just like to jump back to evolution for a quick comment and for those fellow evolution believers, I have a theory about human evolution. Since (assuming we look at the conditions in the U.S today) most people are cared for, e.g health insurance, medicare, welfare and the "weak" or those who are able to live because of modern medicine, are able to pass down their genes, wouldn't that mean that human evolution has drastically slowed since it is no longer about "survival of the fittest" and passing down of superior genes? Just a thought, someone tell me if I'm completely wrong (if you know anything not involving the morality of the topic).

Please look into the African dilemma

Why have they not evolved AIDS protection already?

Why are they still as weak as us?

I'm quite confused at the point you're trying to make. Africans are in constant warring to the point of Survival of the Fittest. I, however, don't see any traits arising that make them survive more, though. I don't see more athletic africans being born, I don't see AIDS-resistant africans being born.

And, on the other point, what says we are being born "weak"? I must say, a lot of the Americans ARE spoiled according to our significantly stupid culture ideal, but I don't see them being in any way "weakling". It's all how you grade life. Sure there are a lot of these Americans who try to act, in their slang, "badass", but history points out that when the war comes to the front line, they will stand, be humbled, and fight for our country's glory. They don't care about business and the marketplace in large changing increments, because there isn't money to be made if you're not in Microsoft.

There are lots of small-time businesses that are too poor to be recognized by the annoying monopolies, but too rich to be considered "poor" in the first place. We still have a "Survival of the Fittest" world over here as well. Those "jocks" convinced that their muscle will help them do everything will be simply trampled. They either will change their mind and "get smart", fight as a soldier, or stand and get trampled as a "non-fit" being. I'd like to point out that the American Survival of the Fittest is no longer graded by how great your physical skill is, but how strong your MIND is.

Genes are not getting any weaker. With medicine all we have succeeded in doing is keeping those with weaker genes (probably what you're suggesting) alive. It preserves human life, and nothing else. The "strong" genes aren't gone, either. And, most likely, they are the BETTERS in society (wealth-wise) because they don't need to pay that ridiculous medical bill needed to keep them alive and sufficiently sustained. Those slimy politicians have a way with bending minds, no?

I feel I haven't placed all of the points yet. Please state what hasn't been covered and I will cover it...my mind doesn't have the capacity to remember everything in question.

 

[Cognitor]

Well, in response to the first part...what I'm saying is that many people assume that because one thing is unexplainable, that means that God did it and that I find illogical.
In response to your mention of the AIDS dilemma, AIDS is considered a relatively new virus. Evolution is said to take millions of years. It's actually nice that you brought up the topic because AIDS is a good example of a form of evolution. The virus is particularly hard to immunize because it is continuously mutating and adapting to modern medicine. The reason that this change does not take millions of years is because a virus has a relativly simple genetic structure compared to that of a human or any animal for that matter. It is a commonly known fact that if antibiotics are continued to be overused at the rate it is, it will gradually become less and less effective as sign have already indicated such. The reason? Bacteria with a genetic code that makes it sucesptable to antibiotics are gradually dying out and bacteria that are immune to its effects are replacing it. This is evolution over a period of time that is much shorter than our current. So, again, to answer why we haven't developed an immunity to AIDS, the virus evolves faster than we do.
On to the other point you mention, you are comparing "Survival of the Fittest" to social success rather than actually being able to live - you are right...in some parts (I COMPLETELY disagree with "They don't care about business and the marketplace in large changing increments, because there isn't money to be made if you're not in Microsoft"). Whether or not you're a CEO, with a nice family and kids who you have spread your genes to or a drug addict who inpregnated a hooker, the point is you have spread your genes...not necessarily your success, but your genes.
Just something to think about (common science quote - think I got it right): Oxgen doesn't exist so we can breathe, we exist because there is oxgen.

 

[Rinpun]

You've dodged the question. What is "logic"?

Please bring up the "unbelievable things" that we say "God did". I say that God created this universe and this world, not that little crack you see in your ceiling. Fact is, quite a lot of the "Christians" of the world are quite misguided. God doesn't do everything in your lives, he expects you to learn to do it and not sit by waiting for the next display of God's Grace.

Correct. Viruses adapt. Humans don't. Please consider that Viruses and Humans have only one thing in common and that is DNA and RNA. Everything else...well, prove to me that you can prove that Viruses are "alive" yet sort of "dead". They don't share the same processes as the Human body--they inject themselves, multiply, break out, and spread out.

That's what the general public THINKS! They don't think "Oh I'm gonna spread my genes today" or anything of the sort. It is usually born from pleasure. The Drug Addict says "Oh I feel like having ^&* today, because it's comfortable and pleasurable", not "I'm going to spread my genes today, because I want my children to carry on my legacy". And alongside, the CEO may find it pleasurable to have kids share his business when he grows old.

That "saying"...where does it come from? It is quite wrong

It's more like this:

We don't exist because oxygen exists, oxygen exists because we exist.

But don't yell at me, that's my belief and I'm sticking with it. It is not illogical for logic is indeterminant.

 

[Cognitor]

Runpin,
Ok, here's a historical example that someone brought up earlier in the forum. The Roman's and Egyptians made up a god for everything they could not explain. A god for the seasons, for the sun, the moon...many Latin American cultures did the same because at that point in time, they had no other explaination. The only difference is that now, we know (can accuratly theorize) why the sun is there, and why there are seasons but that which we can't explain like why the universe is there is replaced by monotheistic ideology.
And that one thing that virus' and humans have in common is the only thing that matters: DNA. Changes in DNA result in mutations and such...please consider my example of bacteria because whether or not virus' are 'alive' is arguable.
Again, you are getting into social darwinism (not in the racist sense). You are comparing social success to reproduction. Aside from that...you have to consider why it is that sex is pleasurable. It is so that we do reproduce...just like any other animal. The goal of any species is to supplement the existance of its own kind. Whether or not we can think or have a form of self-realization is irrelevent.
And I'm sure if you google that saying, you'll get linked straight to a scientific website. "We don't exist because oxygen exists, oxygen exists because we exist"- this is what you said which implys that oxygen was made so that we can breathe. Not so...because oxygen exists, humans exist; if there was no oxygen, there would be no humans.
I think much of the disbelief and resentment for the theory exists because there is a widespread lack of understanding of it as well as the religious believe that Adam and Eve were the first humans that were just put on earth. Believing that to be literal is a fundementalist belief in which holy books are, once again, taken literally. Please consider that it is just a story meant to teach a lesson about sacrafice, human nature, and temptation; not a textbook of our existance. All I'm saying is that if someone acctually explained the theory to you, you would understand and agree.

 

[Rinpun]

First of all, it's Rinpun, not Runpin

Runpin,
Ok, here's a historical example that someone brought up earlier in the forum. The Roman's and Egyptians made up a god for everything they could not explain. A god for the seasons, for the sun, the moon...many Latin American cultures did the same because at that point in time, they had no other explaination. The only difference is that now, we know (can accuratly theorize) why the sun is there, and why there are seasons but that which we can't explain like why the universe is there is replaced by monotheistic ideology.

Wow, are you completely sure that you can "accurately" theorize what the sun does and how everything works? Because power cell technology and computer speed technology has proved that which ever way we're going...we're at a stump end. Quite a few of these theories have to die if we plan to ascend into higher technology. Something is wrong.

God still sits alongside this all. Where Romans and Egyptians had their "God of the Door" or "God of War", our God simply made everything and let it all run. Whether he let the concept of Evolution come into play or not, that is irrevelant. The Christians who have looked at this "accurate" theorizations have either noticed they are not really that accurate or that it still supports God.

I don't care if you have your "burning balls of gas cooling down and forming the universe" theory, because clearly you have to explain how those got there. All the Bible says about Creation is that it was just "there". How could life randomly happen? There are no sparks of life OR material in a vacuum of nothingness...a space with no black holes, no stars, no nothing.

And that one thing that virus' and humans have in common is the only thing that matters: DNA. Changes in DNA result in mutations and such...please consider my example of bacteria because whether or not virus' are 'alive' is arguable.

Viruses have nothing in them besides DNA and RNA. Human cells have pieces of crap to move around and perform changes in the body. This is the current understanding of the difference. Therefore, this is a bend that you've failed to explain how Evolution comes through.

Again, you are getting into social darwinism (not in the racist sense). You are comparing social success to reproduction. Aside from that...you have to consider why it is that sex is pleasurable. It is so that we do reproduce...just like any other animal. The goal of any species is to supplement the existance of its own kind. Whether or not we can think or have a form of self-realization is irrelevent.

And your point is...?

And I'm sure if you google that saying, you'll get linked straight to a scientific website. "We don't exist because oxygen exists, oxygen exists because we exist"- this is what you said which implys that oxygen was made so that we can breathe. Not so...because oxygen exists, humans exist; if there was no oxygen, there would be no humans.

And no animals. And then no plants because creatures are required carbon dioxide, which is handled by oxygen-breathing creatures.

Thus, you're reduced to only anaerobic bacteria. I think Oxygen should've been made. Chances are past impossible for the perfect world in perfect balance to just come into being, the health package, the gigantic world to explore package, and all of the other packages to name.

I think much of the disbelief and resentment for the theory exists because there is a widespread lack of understanding of it as well as the religious believe that Adam and Eve were the first humans that were just put on earth. Believing that to be literal is a fundementalist belief in which holy books are, once again, taken literally. Please consider that it is just a story meant to teach a lesson about sacrafice, human nature, and temptation; not a textbook of our existance. All I'm saying is that if someone acctually explained the theory to you, you would understand and agree.

It's "God's Word", and it clearly points out that it is what he said, and it is what he did/witnessed. You have to attempt to look at the Bible sometime and use that "scientific" brain to think of what is a lesson and what is not. Clearly Jesus's parables were stories of truth meant to teach lessons...but God did not say that Adam and Eve was a parable. Therefore, I'm going to have some trouble taking your word on that.

Which theory? I only agree with a theory if I am satisfied with what it points out and how it handles its weak points.

 

[Cognitor]

I said theorize because you can't acctually prove it through experimentation. It's a theory that the center of the sun is 26 million degrees Fahrenheit and I'm sure that you believe that is relatively close based on scientific evidence. As long as we can't stick a thermometer in the center of the sun, it will always be a theory. Don't dismiss the theory of evolution because someone told you all it was was somebody's guess; it's far from it.
"How could life randomly happen? There are no sparks of life OR material in a vacuum of nothingness...a space with no black holes, no stars, no nothing."
SAYS WHO. Prove that there isn't. That's right, you can't prove that life doesn't randomly happen just as you can't prove that there is a God. You believe that I have to prove to you that life doesn't randomly happen when rather, you should prove to me that God exists. Where is your scientific evidence, or because existence of the universe is beyond our modern science, we must assume that God did it. Tell me. Who wrote the bible? Did God write it and drop it in someone lap to read? Did he give it to someone so that they may read to all everything he wrote about Adam and Eve? NO. It is a collection of religious beliefs by various theoligins and religious folk who mushed it into one book and said that it's the word of God...and now, hundreds of years later, you think that God wrote every word in that book.
"Viruses have nothing in them besides DNA and RNA. Human cells have pieces of crap to move around and perform changes in the body. This is the current understanding of the difference. Therefore, this is a bend that you've failed to explain how Evolution comes through."
Yes, 'pieces of crap to move around'...maybe this is your understanding of the difference (that sounded mean but its the only way I could put it). I think further explaining would be pointless but you are still ignoring my example about bacteria and antibiotics.
You quoted me on social darwinism: my point is that society has nothing to do with evolution, period.
I'm not going to further argue about the oxygen point because I don't know what you're talking about and you are implying that God 'created' oxygen...with his oxygen kit where he moves atoms around to have certain characteristics so that they make up a molecular structure.
On another note, the criteria required to refer to something as a theory is much greater than you think. So great in fact, that God's existance does not qualify itself as one. So before you are so quick to refute something that actually has evidence to support it, please consider the evidence you have to support your own arguement. You cannot say that God's existance is a fact, therefore, the theory of evolution is wrong because you must prove that God does exist first.
Sorry if I sounded offensive but I'm just a bit frustrated.

 

[Shadowy Fear]

This seems rather wierd. . .
Sorry if it seems like im bringing up old news, but I just finished reading this thread and I just HAD to respond.

Ill start out by saying that im an evolutionist, and do not believe in a divine creator (at least god; I do not reject the theory that life on Earth came from an outside, alien source). Hmmmm, perhaps I should just give a story in chronological format to make my points/beliefs/theories better understood . . .

While scientists (and me) are still unsure of how this universe originally began and are still tossing around theories, I will stand resolute in one thing; inifinity.

PART ONE
The universe is currently expanding at a deacelerating rate; thus, eventually it will stop expanding all together, and begin to collapse inward to create, perhaps, the Big Crunch. There are plenty of theories on how this happens; I merely used this as it will help you understand my primary concept. If this universe eventually collapses inward into an ultra super-massive black hole, what will happen to the matter inside it? My theory is that, when this finally happens, when all space, time, and matter, is at Omega Point, one of two things will happen; either the matter inside the black hole will finally burst outward and create a new Big Bang, or (I prefer the second theory) the matter will travel through a wormhole to another universe, or perhaps create a universe altogether. This, I believe, is how OUR universe came to be, an endless, comological cycle . . .

PART TWO (turn the page )

Now, for life on Earth, I believe this is how it started (not counting the alien asteroid intervention). In the primordial chemical mixture, lightning fused together some chemicals to create the building blocks for life(as noted earlier in this thread, and several other times in the scientific community). Gradually, these building blocks, such as DNA, carbohydrates, protiens, etc. came together to form the very first life forms. Unless Rinpun, aka Mr. Smarter Than Hawking (just joking I have to keep this thread humerous after all the laughs I got out of it)
constructs a time machine for us (do I smell the plotline for a new game) there is no way to oberve how this ACTUALLY happened. These organisms began to thrive in primordial earth. Let me interrupt myself by saying that the earliest organisms did NOT exist during the chaotic, molten era of Earth; they came about AFTER that, and the dinosaurs BILLIONS of years later; in fact dinosaurs are only several hundred million years away from US; sharks existed long before the dinosaurs.
ANYWAYS, as the organisms began to thrive, small mutations happened; perhaps the substition of one nucleic base acid for another. This is known as variation, one of the key elements for evolution. As this happened, those organisms better suited to their environment gradually outnumbered the others. So this process went one, until the first plant life forms were formed. This early type of vegation did very well in Earth; they produced oxygen in huge numbers, too much for Earth to get rid of in the form of rust ( oxygen was NOT a part of early earths atmostphere, fyi rinpun and others ). As this happened, the atmosphere's contents shifted forever, killing off many life forms and plants, but opening the way for new ones (eventually humans will do a similiar thing to the earths atmosphere for teh better though considering humanity's general ignorance o the environent; note that I am NOT an tree chaining ecowarrior ). Skipping past most of that, it beings us to the AD years (religion even influences 'scientific' concepts liek that ), where Mendel, Darwin, and others observed the staggering amount of evidence for evolution. For instance, the diversity of species on the galapgos islands; even some of the same species there that lived on different islands had different characteristics. Humans are able to think and process data through their advanced neurological system, aka the brain. Other animals are not so smart; in fact, I think I heard that only gorillas and chimpanzees are even remotely sentient. Sentiency itself is an illusion; therefore, how can we even attempt to contemplate the mysteries of the universe? Because we look for answers is the, um, answer. Humanity has always been a curious child, lost and forlorn, yet searching for answers. I believe that religion came about from the LACK of answers; of course iv just contradicted myself by saying that how can we contemplate the mysteries of the . . .

Mmmmm, I think I addresed the most important aspects of what I was trying to . . . address . . . ANYWAYS thanks for reading this

 

[Rinpun]

*Laughs hysterically*



*Shakes head and backs away*

You are very honest, I like that. You've just proven why Evolution doesn't have any point at all in explaining how the world came about...or how it helps us at all. Christianity doesn't help at all either, hence why I've stopped posting here because I was mistaken on my particular ground.

*Assumes the Douglas Adams ground*

Really, there is no sense in all of this. Maybe you should read his books and notice how well he puts the fight between Christianity and Evolution

(Hint: Poof of "logic")

 

[Marksman]

I believe in evolution simply because it makes since. If you think about lifes mysteries, most of them you can come to a conclusion based on the most logical reason for it. As far as evolution goes, why wouldn't a species change to fit its surroundings? As proof, take a look at how much life has changed since the early 1900's. Im not just talking about technology, but ways of life. We have come so far from then, our culture has evolved. Could animals not also evolve? Nature has a way of keeping itself alive and in peak condition (Survival of the Fittest), so it stands to reason that weaker creatures would be removed or changed to become strong in their new enviroments. As far as debating religion, let's not get out of hand. Just because I believe in evolution, does not mean i don't believe in god. Religion is one topic that you cannot prove or disprove.

 

[AceHart]

And at the end of the sixth day,
she looked down at her creation, and thought:
" Ah, well, she'll use some cosmetics ... "



Wayyyyy too "serious" this thread...

 

[DM Cross]

Heh, I didn't want to be the one to say it, Ace.

You people really need to chill...There are a MILLION (and 2) ways the world COULD have happened. You want to spend most of your life, or even a part of it thinking about ONE possibility? Come on, just learn to enjoy it!

However, my thoughts? Yeah, sure, we WERE animals once. We DID evolve...However, who says adaptation really did it? Could it have been the Goddess? (I'm a Wiccan, so don't mind the 'dess' part of that, God works too) Maybe. I don't really care, because I'm waay past that time. But yeah, I think we DID evolve.

 

[AceHart]

> I think we DID evolve

Oh, yes.
Just look around you.
Can't help but notice that men did evolve from monkeys.

And, it happened some really long time ago... at least 20 years or something.

 

[DM Cross]

*Gasp* THAT LONG AGO?! Damn, I was shooting for 15!

 

[Rinpun]

And I'm Creationist. Dang.

*Vanishes in a cloud of logic along with God*

(P.S. I would have guessed you were Evolutionist Marksman, you talk like Mind with the exception of THAT kind of personality...heh

P.S.S. Those who believe in Evolution, please give a much better name to your religion by considering spelling lessons or typing lessons...it's getting annoying trying to decipher you guys

P.S.S.S Everyone (should) know(s) that the world was created in 1950 and that everything else before that time are memories planted in our head.)

 

[SilverHawk]

My two cents:

Well, after reading this thread, I have only one comment. Evolution hasn't been proven, and neither has religion. I personally think that it is one of those mysteries that never will be. I'm not saying which side I'm on, but there's really no sense in arguing, as I don't think anyone plans on changing sides. So, if you want to post your own beliefs, go right ahead (first amendment for all the Americans ), but I think you should refrain from arguing over something for which you have no proof.

There we go.

Btw, read this again.

You people really need to chill...There are a MILLION (and 2) ways the world COULD have happened. You want to spend most of your life, or even a part of it thinking about ONE possibility? Come on, just learn to enjoy it!

Well put.