Evolution

Discussion in 'Debates' started by Dr.Jack, Oct 30, 2008.

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  1. Dr.Jack

    Dr.Jack That's Cap'n to you!

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    Approved by Ghan_04. Please take a minute to read the rules.

    What do you think of evolution? Do you think it is real? Why or why not? If evolution is right doesn't it mean that god necessarily doesn't exist? If you don't believe in evolution what is your theory?

    As always let's have a fun debate and make sure you read the rules! :)
     
  2. Zakyath

    Zakyath Member

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    yes, I do believe in it, since it's proved and seems pretty logic. no, it doesn't mean there is no god, only that the bible contains just as much correct fact as pizza :) though, god may have created evolution. I dunno.
     
  3. Ninva

    Ninva Анна Ахматова

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    I read once that a certain person couldn't believe in evolution because she found it hard to believe that in the beginning there was nothing; then there was a terrific explosion. She said it's much easier to believe God made everything than an explosion out of the void of space. I found her logic to be very amusing.

    I wonder, what nothing is. Nothing isn't matter nor anti-matter. Maybe you should talk about anti-matter in your next debate thread, Jack.

    Evolution is easier to believe than intelligent design. It just makes some sense, while a god creating people seems purely fantastic. But the odd thing about Evolution is that there are too many holes of information we're missing. Thus, I don't believe it a bit.
     
  4. konerboy

    konerboy Run piggy Run!

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    it's pretty hard to understand how things fit so well in the first place.
     
  5. Ninva

    Ninva Анна Ахматова

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    My father used to tell me about how God fitted everything in the right place, and that's the evident truth that God existed.
     
  6. Zakyath

    Zakyath Member

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    >I read once that a certain person couldn't believe in evolution because she found it hard to believe that in the beginning there was nothing; then there was a terrific explosion. She said it's much easier to believe God made everything than an explosion out of the void of space. I found her logic to be very amusing.

    I believe that nothing can exist. Same thing with an infinity. Just because we aren't capable of understanding it fully, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
     
  7. DDRtists

    DDRtists ɹoʇɐɹǝpoɯ ɹǝdns Staff Member

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    Wheres the proof in that? Theres none. :thdown:
    Theres plenty of proof of evolution, believe thats how things started.
     
  8. UndeadDragon

    UndeadDragon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    IMO evolution is the most likely cause of all current life.

    But I like to think scientifically about things and this seems to be the only plausible idea of life. I am not saying "there is no God though". I am not a believer, or an atheist. The thought of a "greater being" is hard to imagine though.

    The advertisment on the london busses sum up my thoughts. ("There's probably no God").
     
  9. Dr.Jack

    Dr.Jack That's Cap'n to you!

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    As there are many holes. Let me give you an example. Say you got a worm. Just a worm, it can't move, see, hear, feel, it just multiplies every few seconds or so. How a sophisticated system like eyes are created? Now, say it already had an eye, and all was needed to improve its vision, that I can imagine. But how can a system be created from nothing?

    Is it possible there is no evolution yet no 'divine power'?
     
  10. NoxMortus

    NoxMortus All Along the Watchtower

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    Random mutation spawns light sensitive cells - The 'beginner' eye.
     
  11. DDRtists

    DDRtists ɹoʇɐɹǝpoɯ ɹǝdns Staff Member

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    The same way the worm itself was created, something else mutates from a cell, into another organism, creating a part usable by said worm.
     
  12. Varine

    Varine And as the moon rises, we shall prepare for war

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    And how does that evolve from a mass of nothingness?
     
  13. NoxMortus

    NoxMortus All Along the Watchtower

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    What do you mean? The light sensitive cells evolved from the example worm, where's this mass of nothingness?

    If you're talking about the Big Bang Theory, that has nothing to do with Evolution.
     
  14. UndeadDragon

    UndeadDragon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Isn't that how the theory of evolution began?
     
  15. Lord_Phoenix

    Lord_Phoenix Dogs are fuzzy

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    Do I believe in evolution? Yes I do. It's pretty much proven that things evolve. For example, Earth is still evolving. This is its third atmosphere.

    Does Evolution disprove God? No. First of all, what is the probabilty of the big bang actually happening? Second of all, how did we achieve self-conciousness? Even through evolution, the probability of these things happening are somewhat slim, since evolution is the reaction to the environment.

    Does Evolution disprove that God created Adam and Eve? Somewhat. It could be possible that God chose two people and gave them a conciousness, or maybe he helped evolve people into conciousness that is symbolized into Adam and Eve. All in all does Evolution disprove God? I believe not.

    The Church says that old testament is not scientific or historical truth, but biblical truth. In other words it's open to interpritation.
     
  16. Darthfett

    Darthfett Super Mod

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    I think his point is that light sensitivity is complicated. There is boolean flag no "isLightSensitive = false" that can be simply set to true inside the Cell DNA. It's extremely complicated.

    Besides, with Darwin's theory of Survival of the Fittest, how would a tiny change in DNA structure that doesn't really help the worm at all really make him survive above all the rest? If it's such an impossibly low chance, and the change is so insignificant, then it's near impossible for this worm-like creature to go from worm without eyes to worm with eyes.

    Seems to me that it has to be a huge change in order for it to actually be survival of the fittest, and evolution basically contradicts it saying that it's all done in small changes.
     
  17. Seb!

    Seb! You can change this now in User CP.

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    For those who say that things turned out too perfectly for the universe to be made from chance, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Perfection is a human term, and even under this skewed definition the universe is not perfect.

    I say that the universe turned out too imperfectly for there to have been a benevolent creator. But I suppose this is off topic.

    It might take a while. Maybe 200 million years. Dozens of millions of generations, and dozens of millions of chances for genetic mutation.

    Anyway, survival of the fittest can be proven using logic. Of course those who luckily mutated into an advantageous state would survive. If this was a genetic mutation, then it would logically be passed down.
     
  18. Darthfett

    Darthfett Super Mod

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    You completely missed my point. Something complicated would take many different steps to work up to, since evolution takes "millions of years". However, many of the steps do not help the organism, so there's no reason that one organism would be able to survive better than another without the mutation.

    Tell me, what is imperfect about the universe besides the humans living in it?
     
  19. Aqua Dragon

    Aqua Dragon I'm made of water. Remember that now.

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    "You completely missed my point. Something complicated would take many different steps to work up to, since evolution takes "millions of years"

    And that is where you are wrong. There's something called "punctuated equilibrium". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

    In summary, it means that sometimes species will undergo very little change over millions of years, but at other times will experience rare bursts of evolution due to sudden mutations or enviormental factors. It's basically another form of gradualism that takes into account the sudden appearance of new structures.

    Anyways, I believe in evolution. Appears to be pretty darn logical and makes good sense of Earth's history. Though I also believe in God. A weird combination, but my thought is that God used the very processes he created to make the Earth and all its living creatures. Still trying to figure out the Adam and Eve thing, but i'll think of something eventually I'm sure.
     
  20. NoxMortus

    NoxMortus All Along the Watchtower

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    Evolution has NOTHING to do with theories regarding how the universe began.

    Evolution is a scientific theory that explains complex and varied life.

    Edit~

    Having some light sensitive cells on their own, you're right, probably wouldn't allow an organism to survive above the rest. It would generally survive at the same rate as others of its species. As it reproduces, down the line somewhere there would be another genetic mutation causing the light sensitive cells to form inside a pit, which would allow the organism to see the shadows of predators and where they were approaching from. Can you see the survival benefits it has now?
     
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