lies & falsehood

[Slapshot136]

when is it appropriate to lie and/or deceive people?
is it ever morally right to lie?

is it OK when you have authority over the people you are lying to? (i.e. parents to their children, dictators/leaders to their people, etc.)

is it OK if it will never be found out (i.e. "white lie")? or is it OK if the person being deceived will eventually find out? (i.e. Santa)

is it OK to lie if the person who you are trying to deceive already knows the truth, since you are not actually deceiving them? (i.e. older children with Santa, (sarcasm?))

note: I am talking about stating an outright lie/falsehood, something like "It's classified" wouldn't count, but "I don't know" could, depending on what you actually know

 

[FireCat]

Well, there isn't an easy way to answer. And it depending on the situation as well.

is it OK if it will never be found out (i.e. "white lie")?

Well, white lie are kinda harmless lie. Such as protect or avoid hurting someones feelings. It wouldn't necessarily hurt someone. Really! Well, and a white lie would cause no harm if discovered even.

 

[tommerbob]

You could draw a circle of chalk around where you are standing, and claim to the world that you will not move from that spot no matter what. So you don't. And you have integrity and honesty. That is admirable.

But what happens when your wife in the next room is being raped? Would you break your word to leave your chalk circle to protect her? If you did, does that make you a liar with no integrity?

Like FireCat said, there is no simple answer, and it depends a great deal on the situation.

 

[thewrongvine]

Superheroes have to lie everyday.

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

personally id say its ok to lie if you do it for someone else, but its not ok if you do it for yourself.
by that i mean if you lie to your kids and tell them santa is real, you do it for them to make them happy and it doesnt make a difference to you, but when you tell someone a lie to get them to do something for you (or vote for you for ex.) when in reality the cake is a lie, then it is not O.K.

and even then, its like what has been stated: it depends on the situation as well

 

[Slapshot136]

You could draw a circle of chalk around where you are standing, and claim to the world that you will not move from that spot no matter what. So you don't. And you have integrity and honesty. That is admirable.

But what happens when your wife in the next room is being raped? Would you break your word to leave your chalk circle to protect her? If you did, does that make you a liar with no integrity?

Like FireCat said, there is no simple answer, and it depends a great deal on the situation.

interesting point, I overlooked the "things you promise to do" type, in which case I see your point, but I was talking more about the kind of lie where you deceive/trick someone, and more of in past rather then the future

Well, white lie are kinda harmless lie. Such as protect or avoid hurting someones feelings. It wouldn't necessarily hurt someone. Really! Well, and a white lie would cause no harm if discovered even.

give me an example, since you lost me - to me a "white lie" is a lie that is undetectable, i.e. "yes I brushed my teeth today mom" - the mom wouldn't really know the difference if the kid brushed his teeth or just ate a mint

personally id say its ok to lie if you do it for someone else, but its not ok if you do it for yourself.
by that i mean if you lie to your kids and tell them santa is real, you do it for them to make them happy and it doesnt make a difference to you, but when you tell someone a lie to get them to do something for you (or vote for you for ex.) when in reality the cake is a lie, then it is not O.K.

and even then, its like what has been stated: it depends on the situation as well

I agree with "it depends", but can you elaborate on that? in your latter example, the lie that convinces someone to vote for X benefits person X and possibly a lot of people that person X would help if elected to office - do you do one of those "is it for the greater good" judgements, or is there something else? and after the fact (after X is in office, or perhaps after their term is over), should you reveal that you lied about so and so that many years ago, or is it better to take it to the grave?

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

the lie that convinces someone to vote for X benefits person X and possibly a lot of people that person X would help if elected to office - do you do one of those "is it for the greater good" judgements, or is there something else?

Well if person X is actually going to do something beneficial if he does get elected then there would be no need for lying, all he'd have to do is state what he actually wants to do. if you give me an example of what you mean then id be able to tell you because i can't visualize said scenario.

and after the fact (after X is in office, or perhaps after their term is over), should you reveal that you lied about so and so that many years ago, or is it better to take it to the grave?

well it depends. as stated i dont see how such a scenario would occur. especially here too, if someone makes a claim to get into power which is a lie, and he never goes through with the claim then people would know themselves that it was a lie...

if we take a different scenario for example with what your saying, not getting into power because i dont see how that would work. in general it all just depends though. if revealing the lie would do more harm than good then keep it, but if it would do more good than harm then tell people. its all situational.

 

[FireCat]

give me an example, since you lost me - to me a "white lie" is a lie that is undetectable, i.e. "yes I brushed my teeth today mom" - the mom wouldn't really know the difference if the kid brushed his teeth or just ate a mint

That doesn't have to to with white lie. It's all about trust.

Anyway
Thank you so much! I just love it! – But you didn't

Well, telling someone that their gift sucked. Would not that make you a jerk?

Or how would you feel if your GF came up to you and said, honey your dick is really small.?
Or Someone made a steak or you cooked one . Would you say Or hear
This had to honestly be the worst steak I have ever had in my entire life.?

Well, there is NOTHING wrong with honesty. And sometimes the circumstances will dictate that you must risk hurting the person's feelings.
And there are ways to tell the truth without bashing someones feelings. But sometimes spare their feelings isn't wrong.

 

[Slapshot136]

That doesn't have to to with white lie. It's all about trust.

Anyway
Thank you so much! I just love it! – But you didn't

Well, telling someone that their gift sucked. Would not that make you a jerk?

Or how would you feel if your GF came up to you and said, honey your dick is really small.?
Or Someone made a steak or you cooked one . Would you say Or hear
This had to honestly be the worst steak I have ever had in my entire life.?

Well, there is NOTHING wrong with honesty. And sometimes the circumstances will dictate that you must risk hurting the person's feelings.
And there are ways to tell the truth without bashing someones feelings. But sometimes spare their feelings isn't wrong.

all of those examples, you can say nothing, you don't have to say something that will intentionally make them feel bad, or

their gift sucked -> say thank you anyways, since you appreciate the thought - no lie
Or how would you feel if your GF came up to you and said, honey your dick is really small.? -> say that's because you aren't hot enough and find another GF
Or Someone made a steak -> give them advice - I think this could use some more time on the grill/mustard/etc.

But sometimes spare their feelings isn't wrong.

point taken, but you can always say nothing - you don't have to tell them something that will hurt their feelings, but you don't want to encourage them either, i.e. in the steak example, it means that they will try to make the steak the same way again, or for the gift they will keep giving you gifts you don't like, etc.

 

[ElderKingpin]

In an ideal world, we would not have to lie, but because of the fact that we have to protect the ones we love we have to bend the truth a little bit, maybe not straight up lieing but maybe withholding the truth, which is still technically lieing. The truth hurts and theres nothing we can do about that other than making the truth something that does not hurt so much

 

[Narks]

i think that there is nothing morally questionable about lying - its the intent behind the lie that counts

lying about santa is perfectly fine because the intent is to create a fantasy for children (or get them to sleep on christmas eve or whatever)

lying about say a product you are trying to sell is not because the intent is to make a profit at someone else's expense through conveying false information

 

[thewrongvine]

I think Bruce Wayne says it nicely, "Sometimes the truth isn't good enough, sometimes people deserve more. Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded... "

 

[Accname]

I have a strict rule set for myself that i would never lie to myself or to set myself in a better situation. But there are always situations in which i lie because it makes everything better for everyone. I mean unimportant things, really marginal situations of the daily life.

Examples are easy to find, but hard to explain. There are many unimportant situation where it doesnt make a difference if you lie or say the truth besides less work or concern for everyone. As i said, its really hard to explain but i run into these kinds of situations on a regular basis.

 

[Varine]

I lie all the time.

Am I lying now?

 

[Ninva]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eNxxoLByS4

 

[FireCat]

I lie all the time.

Am I lying now?

Yes, you are lying!

 

[Varine]

Haha, good guess. But no, in all seriousness I lie all the time.

 

[FireCat]

in all seriousness I lie all the time.

Do you lie in your dreams to? lol

 

[Varine]

Do you lie in your dreams to? lol

I don't sleep.

 

[Slapshot136]

I think it's unhealthy to lie out of habit, especially to yourself - as for other lies, you guys like justifying them, but I am not convinced of how much good that does in the long run

let me ask you this: should a parent lie to an adopted child about being adopted? (assuming that they were the same race and it was possible to deceive the child) and until what age?