Macs aren't overpriced -- I have proof!

[Icyculyr]

I skimmed through those comparisons,

but your comparing a $900 sager with a $1800 macbook and calling it a hammer? it's obviously not going to be better if it's half the price

How do you know the Sager wouldn't be better? Do you realise I was saying the Sager hammered them both? Not the other way around -- it won't have better battery life, that's for sure, but, nonetheless, it has the same specs, in fact, a few that are a little better.

same thing for the netbook, your comparing to something that's double the price - how is something that is consistently double the price, yet still being compared in terms of specs, not overpriced? it's like comparing a Honda to a Porsche

What netbook?

and even if the 17" envy isn't similar to the 17" mac-book, comparing a 15" to a 17" isn't the same, at-least give the envy an extra battery or 2, since that is about the difference between a 15" and a 17"

Well, the 17" Envy had a 5850 or 5870M, a quad core i7 860QM, etc., the 15" matched the specs better.

also, windows computers go on sale fairly frequently and have decent sales, macs almost never do, and never any major sales - for example those HP envy's had a 300 off code this summer

Yeah, I know. You can pick up Macs for several hundred off in the refurbished section, but that's about it.

and finally, non-mac computers can be built at home, bringing the minimum price for XXX hardware even lower

Yep, building a computer will be cheaper than any Mac or PC.

so.. what about other computer manufacturers? they manage to do without the extra $1000 baby fat and have the exact same challenges as apple does

That is true, but it isn't quite the same. Apple has a $1999 iMac with an i5 @ 2.8GHz, a 5750 1GB, and it includes a $1,000 screen... If they dropped the Mac Pro even down to $1499, or even $1999, everyone would just buy the Mac Pro instead of the iMac -- Apple wants to separate the two lines.

Look at HPs all-in-one's, they're all lower than the price of the Dell workstation ($1500) -- however, they wouldn't be if they included a 27" 2560x1440 screen, they'd be more expensive -- but they don't, so they can fit under the price range just fine.

 

[tom_mai78101]

Here is one article you'll like: PC Mech - Is the Mac Overpriced?

 

[Icyculyr]

I agree with some points, but this was in 08. Pricing has changed a lot

 

[Nenad]

I still think building your own PC trumps all of this, and I don't think mac will sell you any parts to build your own.

This for the win.

Dell, Hp, Acer whatever can suck it. They overprice their hardware and they offer replacements at ridiculous prices. Mac, i have no idea but you seemed to compare them only to fixed configurations which is bad.

In the end it's mostly a personal preference,i and many others just happen to like Windows and Linux instead of Mac, that is all.

 

[Slapshot136]

Apple would need to support so many different combinations of hardware with OS X -- it'd have problems, just like Windows does.

so what is apple's problem with providing a list of supported hardware and letting us buy and assemble that supported hardware? then we would be able to save $$ by not paying for assembly, and likely getting better a better warranty also

 

[Samael88]

Dual Hexa Xeon Mac Pro @ 2.66GHz vs Dual Hexa Xeon Dell Precision T7500

Spoiler

• $4999 DP Mac Pro
• Dual Hexa Xeon @ 2.66GHz, 6GB 1333MHz, 5770 1GB, 1 TB HD

• ^ $5224 Dell Precision T7500
• Dual Hexa Xeon @ 2.66GHz, 6GB 1333MHz, ATI FireMV 2260 256MB, 1 TB HD

So, the Mac Pro is actually $225 cheaper. I believe the dual six-core Mac Pro @ 2.93GHz is about $370 cheaper than the dual six-core Dell @ 2.93GHz as well. The dual quad-core Mac Pro @ 2.4GHz is $350 more expensive than the dual quad-core Dell @ 2.4GHz.

Icyculyr, you usually comes with good posts, but I just can't agree with you here.

The first three stationary computers I am not going into details about other than saying that it is obvious that the macs are more expensive and most of them has the graphics cards being the only differences.

The one I have quoted above is actually the only one of the above computers where the mac is actually both cheaper and better, and that is the only one that is worth the price difference.
But in Sweden the 5770 1GB costs the same for both mac and PC and it turns out that the mac ends up being about 40% more expensive if both are bought piece by piece from the cheapest sources available.

If one can get a computer for PC and mac with the same products in them and the PC being cheaper I would draw the conclusion that the macs are still overpriced, at least in Sweden.
One more thing is that you compare it to DELL which in Sweden almost always sell crap computers. I have only seen one or two DELL computers which actually was worth the money:thdown:

 

[Icyculyr]

Dell, Hp, Acer whatever can suck it. They overprice their hardware and they offer replacements at ridiculous prices. Mac, i have no idea but you seemed to compare them only to fixed configurations which is bad.

You can't build a Mac and we all know building it yourself will be cheaper. My point is, in comparison, Macs aren't that expensive as most think, remember the majority of computer buyers don't build them themselves.

so what is apple's problem with providing a list of supported hardware and letting us buy and assemble that supported hardware? then we would be able to save $$ by not paying for assembly, and likely getting better a better warranty also

Why? Because then third parties will build Macs and sell them, rather than only Apple being able to sell them (first hand) which would cause Apple to make a lot less money, especially considering Windows runs on every hardware config.

The first three stationary computers I am not going into details about other than saying that it is obvious that the macs are more expensive and most of them has the graphics cards being the only differences.

Correct, with the iMacs, the price difference is small though -- excluding whatever extra value the GPU has. It isn't much of a premium to pay for someone who wants OS X.

But in Sweden the 5770 1GB costs the same for both mac and PC and it turns out that the mac ends up being about 40% more expensive if both are bought piece by piece from the cheapest sources available.

Anything you build will be cheaper than a PC or a Mac. I'm not sure what you mean with the GPU, Apple is the only one who sells the Mac 5770 -- and they are pretty much just as expensive (afaik) across all stores.

One more thing is that you compare it to DELL which in Sweden almost always sell crap computers. I have only seen one or two DELL computers which actually was worth the money

True, but these are dell workstations. The Mac Pro won't ever be crap, it is a beautiful machine -- on the inside, not just the outside.

 

[sqrage]

When you use beautiful, a word I seldom even use to describe women, to describe a computer you know you've watched too many Apple keynotes.

 

[Icyculyr]

When you use beautiful, a word I seldom even use to describe women, to describe a computer you know you've watched too many Apple keynotes.

Haha, naww. You've never seen the insides of one (The Mac Pro, lol). I seldom use the word for women also, however, in terms of a computer, it means clean and tidy.

 

[Darthfett]

When you use beautiful, a word I seldom even use to describe women, to describe a computer you know you've watched too many Apple keynotes.

I refer to code that is readable, concise, and well written as 'beautiful'. Just because you don't refer to something in some way doesn't mean it's improper usage.

 

[Samuraid]

I want to point out that my mac's battery lasts a decent 5 hours with no very consuming (WC3, etc) programs open.

I want to point out that my 3-year-old Dell laptop's battery still lasts over 5 hours on a charge. This is the original battery. This is with the web browser and wireless running. This includes a Core 2 Duo chip and a discrete GPU (8600M GT).

Your move, Apple.

 

[Icyculyr]

I want to point out that my 3-year-old Dell laptop's battery still lasts over 5 hours on a charge. This is the original battery. This is with the web browser and wireless running. This includes a Core 2 Duo chip and a discrete GPU (8600M GT).

Your move, Apple.

I'm curious though, what percent brightness did you have it set on? Nonetheless, that's a long time.

My 13" 2010 MBP (C2D @ 2.4GHz, GeForce 320M) gets 2 hours of battery life when playing Crysis: Warhead with 100% brightness.

 

[Samuraid]

I'm curious though, what percent brightness did you have it set on? Nonetheless, that's a long time.

My 13" 2010 MBP (C2D @ 2.4GHz, GeForce 320M) gets 2 hours of battery life when playing Crysis: Warhead with 100% brightness.

At ~60% brightness: 6 hours 19 minutes
At max brightness: 4 hours 50 minutes

Bear in mind that this is a 3-year-old battery even, and a 15.6" screen.

 

[Icyculyr]

At ~60% brightness: 6 hours 19 minutes
At max brightness: 4 hours 50 minutes

Bear in mind that this is a 3-year-old battery even, and a 15.6" screen.

That's pretty good, you're not using the estimated calculations the batteries give you though are you?

 

[ReVolver]

Here's your first mistake on your "proof" a personal computer or PC is any kind of computer a Mac is a PC. Building your own computer to specifically run Windows, OSX, Linux is also a PC but it's cheaper because you don't pay someone to "make" it for you, you do it yourself. Apple has hammered so many times telling you a Mac is more than a PC but it's just a PC. It should be more like Mac vs HP vs Sony vs Toshiba vs Etc. Because each manufacturer makes you a PC and charges you for the prices of each piece and also the customer support. Mac and Microsoft are also software companies but Microsoft != PC and Mac != it's own thing. Is Mac overpriced for charging you for parts and support? Well compare Mac's products which each manufacturer and tell me the hardware and support cost averages between all of them, then you got me.

 

[Samael88]

Anything you build will be cheaper than a PC or a Mac.

I don't get that sentence, but I think you mean that anything you build is cheaper than a computer that a company can build, did I get it correct?
I build the mac and the pc piece by piece and the mac turned out about 40% more expensive.

I'm not sure what you mean with the GPU, Apple is the only one who sells the Mac 5770 -- and they are pretty much just as expensive (afaik) across all stores.

Not to be a now it all here, but that is total bullcrap dude^^
http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.aspx?sku=600760
It is currently out of stock on that page, but it is the 5770 for PC

I for one will always find mac less appealing for many reasons, one is the most obvious of them all. Their logo is an appel which someone has taken a bite out of, how many bites did Snow white take out of the poison apple?
But serious, the price is just through the roof

 

[Icyculyr]

I don't get that sentence, but I think you mean that anything you build is cheaper than a computer that a company can build, did I get it correct?

No, any computer you build (I.E, of NewEgg) will be cheaper than a pre-built Mac or PC.

I build the mac and the pc piece by piece and the mac turned out about 40% more expensive.

You mean you made a machine with identical specs to the Mac in NewEgg or something and it was 40% cheaper than the Mac Pro?

Not to be a now it all here, but that is total bullcrap dude^^

No, it isn't. I think you misunderstood me, I mean, the Mac 5770 is only sold by Apple and the price of the Mac 5770 is about the same in all of their stores (I.E, Apple.com, Apple.com/au, Apple.com/uk, etc.), converting the currency of course.

Here's your first mistake on your "proof" a personal computer or PC is any kind of computer a Mac is a PC. Building your own computer to specifically run Windows, OSX, Linux is also a PC but it's cheaper because you don't pay someone to "make" it for you, you do it yourself. Apple has hammered so many times telling you a Mac is more than a PC but it's just a PC. It should be more like Mac vs HP vs Sony vs Toshiba vs Etc. Because each manufacturer makes you a PC and charges you for the prices of each piece and also the customer support. Mac and Microsoft are also software companies but Microsoft != PC and Mac != it's own thing. Is Mac overpriced for charging you for parts and support? Well compare Mac's products which each manufacturer and tell me the hardware and support cost averages between all of them, then you got me.

That isn't a mistake, I'm aware a Mac is a PC -- you know what I mean.
I don't have the time unfortunately to compare them to an equivalent machine from each manufacturer, although, I might do that sometime.

I think if I compared each of them against 8 different equivalent machines, that would be good, however, that might take some time

 

[Slapshot136]

Why? Because then third parties will build Macs and sell them, rather than only Apple being able to sell them (first hand) which would cause Apple to make a lot less money, especially considering Windows runs on every hardware config.

oh, so how is "apple making more money" when compared to other 3rd parties like dell/hp/etc. not overpriced? I think that's the definition of overpriced

 

[Icyculyr]

oh, so how is "apple making more money" when compared to other 3rd parties like dell/hp/etc. not overpriced? I think that's the definition of overpriced

Not what I meant. Apple wouldn't make any money off their hardware, they'd only have the OS, which wouldn't be that popular -- they'd lose everything.

 

[Samael88]

You mean you made a machine with identical specs to the Mac in NewEgg or something and it was 40% cheaper than the Mac Pro?

No, I checked out some different Swedish pages where one could by computer parts online and checked for the cheapest prices I could find for the parts and added them together^^ That is how I always buy computers, it saved me about 5000sek on my last computer compared to a already put together computer.

the Mac 5770 is only sold by Apple

I found it on a couple of other sites that sell computer parts, if you are talking about the graphics card that is

I am actually going to return to the 4th of the stationary computers.
You have made a complete screw up in that selection somewhere, if I put only the specs you have put there with a graphics card that matches the 5770 better I get a total of "$4,844.00", and that is with windows 7 included.
Where you get the other $400 from I don't understand.
It is still the best comparison there is, but try to be more exact next time