Health Patients to be frozen into state of suspended animation for surgery

[Sevion]

centipedes and roaches are insects not animals (unless this whole time ive been wrong)

many animals however are, yes, not close in biological and neural complexity, but im PRETTY sure scientists know this and in fact tested on animals close to us (monkeys, pigs, etc). Im pretty sure nobody is retarded enough to make a conclusion by testing on centipedes and roaches.
using roaches and centipedes as examples is taking it to way extremes.

This...

You be trollin' sqrage.

 

[esb]

It's stupid to test on monkeys, pigs, and "etc." (I'll include rats there). Why? While the DNA is similar, and closer than most other animals, their whole bodies are completely different, not to mention diet and lifestyle.

 

[Sevion]

So you'd rather they out-right test on humans? So would I, but who wants to actually be the test subject? No one. And they call it inhumane or whatever.

 

[sqrage]

So you'd rather they out-right test on humans? So would I, but who wants to actually be the test subject? No one. And they call it inhumane or whatever.

In-mates with life sentences.

many animals however are, yes, not close in biological and neural complexity, but im PRETTY sure scientists know this and in fact tested on animals close to us (monkeys, pigs, etc). Im pretty sure nobody is retarded enough to make a conclusion by testing on centipedes and roaches.

Yea not all scientists are the geniuses you're thinking they are. And the definition of "animal" varies depending on who you ask.

I don't see why the article and scientist don't state which animals they used as their subjects unless it was something ridiculous like I mentioned.

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

In-mates with life sentences.

i actually wondered myself why they dont do that, would make a lot more sense. they are dying anyway. this way their actually helping mankind. their repaying their debt to society.

 

[Sevion]

i actually wondered myself why they dont do that, would make a lot more sense. they are dying anyway. this way their actually helping mankind. their repaying their debt to society.

Even inmates have their inalienable rights.

 

[esb]

Sadly... they do...

 

[Flare]

centipedes and roaches are insects not animals (unless this whole time ive been wrong)

From a classification point of view, they are animals.

So you'd rather they out-right test on humans?

Where did esb suggest that?

Animal testing may have validity (I say may because I don't know how accurate it is/isn't), but it is ridiculous to assume that the conclusions drawn from animal testing can be applied to humans due to the fact that there are anatomical differences which could be the difference between this technique succeeding and failing.

 

[Sevion]

Perhaps "mammals" was a better term.

Where did esb suggest that?

Here:

It's stupid to test on monkeys, pigs, and "etc." (I'll include rats there). Why? While the DNA is similar, and closer than most other animals, their whole bodies are completely different, not to mention diet and lifestyle.

It's not explicitly stated, but according what he's saying the only "non-stupid" test would be a test on a human.

 

[Whitesock]

I don't see the problem here. The concept has been proven and this could save many lives of heavy trauma accidents. What's this about being tested on people for basic surgery? That's quite foolish and unneccesary as we're pretty good with minor to medium surgeries.

 

[Sevion]

The concept has been proven and this could save many lives of heavy trauma accidents.

What's what I was trying to get at :-/

BTW, where does it say they're doing it on basic surgery? I didn't see that in the article.

 

[Whitesock]

BTW, where does it say they're doing it on basic surgery?

You're right, I misread some earlier posts. I still think this is a good idea though.

 

[sqrage]

I don't see the problem here. The concept has been proven and this could save many lives of heavy trauma accidents. What's this about being tested on people for basic surgery? That's quite foolish and unneccesary as we're pretty good with minor to medium surgeries.

I'm not sure who's talking about basic surgery. We're saying it hasn't been tested on humans.

I'm willing to bet that anyone who underwent this frozen state would not come back out of it (if at all) the same person they were when they went into it. The neural wiring would probably undergo heavy changes in the process of being frozen and then again after being thawed. We obvious can't test this on animals as we can't talk to them and see if they have the same emotions and thought processes that they had before.

But I'm still skeptical about this working at all in the first place.

 

[Ninja_sheep]

Classic problems with new medical stuff that may work but may just as well kill the patient :>

Go test on apes !

 

[phyrex1an]

The neural wiring would probably undergo heavy changes in the process of being frozen and then again after being thawed..

Seriously? What about reading the article... As you might be aware of article titles and and summaries are not written by the same people that write the article and thus will always contain errors. In this case the error is the word "frozen". If you read the article you'll find that they talk about "patient's bodies being cooled to as low as 10 degrees C".
Now, that's still pretty cold but it's not unheard of people being cooled to temperatures around 10 degrees C in accidents and still make a perfect recovery, sometimes they even survive precisely because of their low core temperature (eg in drowning accidents you can survive for up to an hour at the bottom of a lake if the water is cold enough).
Furthermore, if you read the article you'll also find that a lesser version of this technique is already in use with good results.

 

[sqrage]

Seriously? What about reading the article... As you might be aware of article titles and and summaries are not written by the same people that write the article and thus will always contain errors. In this case the error is the word "frozen". If you read the article you'll find that they talk about "patient's bodies being cooled to as low as 10 degrees C".
Now, that's still pretty cold but it's not unheard of people being cooled to temperatures around 10 degrees C in accidents and still make a perfect recovery, sometimes they even survive precisely because of their low core temperature (eg in drowning accidents you can survive for up to an hour at the bottom of a lake if the water is cold enough).
Furthermore, if you read the article you'll also find that a lesser version of this technique is already in use with good results.

freezes their bodies to the point of death.

To me that sounds like neural activity ceases... (but no, i haven't read the article)

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

I'm willing to bet that anyone who underwent this frozen state would not come back out of it (if at all) the same person they were when they went into it. The neural wiring would probably undergo heavy changes in the process of being frozen and then again after being thawed. We obvious can't test this on animals as we can't talk to them and see if they have the same emotions and thought processes that they had before.

A BBC Two Horizon documentary on Dr Alam's research also highlights a similar technique already being used on heart patients at Yale New Haven Hospital in southern Connecticut.

Surgeons there cool their patient's heart and brain to around 20 degrees C before switching off life support machines to allow them to perform an operation for up to 60 minutes before the patient is gradually warmed back up and resuscitated.

John Elefteriades, the cardiac surgeon behind the operations, has found that patients who have undergone this type of surgery suffer no long term impairment to their brain function.

He said: "The body is essentially in real life suspended animation with no pulse, no blood pressure, no electrical waves in the brain. We didn't find any evidence of functional impairment after the surgery."

.

 

[Flare]

Er... doesn't the bit you bolded refer to the current practice of patients being cooled to 20C, as opposed to the 10C being experimented with by Dr. Alam and his team

A BBC Two Horizon documentary on Dr Alam's research also highlights a similar technique already being used on heart patients at Yale New Haven Hospital in southern Connecticut.

Surgeons there cool their patient's heart and brain to around 20 degrees C before switching off life support machines to allow them to perform an operation for up to 60 minutes before the patient is gradually warmed back up and resuscitated.

John Elefteriades, the cardiac surgeon behind the operations, has found that patients who have undergone this type of surgery suffer no long term impairment to their brain function.

He said: "The body is essentially in real life suspended animation with no pulse, no blood pressure, no electrical waves in the brain. We didn't find any evidence of functional impairment after the surgery."

as opposed to

The cold treatment, which is being developed at Harvard Medical School and the Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston and is featured in a BBC Two Horizon documentary, will see patient's bodies being cooled to as low as 10 degrees C.

Dr Alam said trials of the technique in animals had shown it to be hugely successful.

He said: "If you drop the body's core temperature and brain temperature down to 15 degrees C or 10 degrees C you are talking about 60 minutes and even 190 minutes of protection.

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

im pretty sure if your brain doesnt fart all over itself at 20, it wont at 15.

also, refer to my first post in this thread. marmots go all the way down to 2 degrees, and manage to get back to normal WITHOUT any medical assistance. (yes yes their marmots, still warm blooded and mammals, not to mention these people will be getting it warmer than 2 degrees, and its WITH medical assistance)

Im hopeful for this to work. I'd like knowing that if i get hit with a stray bullet, that id have a higher chance of survival once i get to the hospital

 

[sqrage]

I'm hopeful too, but I never said anything about impairment of brain function.